(Topic ID: 77323)

Fun House Reset

By RoughHouse

10 years ago


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  • 244 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Pugsley
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 244 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
#1 10 years ago

First time on the forum, looks good from what I have seen I got a fun house about 7 years ago and it seems to be resetting more and more. If I unplug and replug the J101 plug on the back board it seemed to work, but doing it more and more. I rebuilt plug 101 and re-soldered the pins on the back board with no luck. It mentions dirty main power from the wall. I think I replaced the main plug when I got it and put on about a 10' 12 - 14 gauge plug. Could this plug be to long and to small wire gauge causing the problem. I have also heard about replacing the bridge rectifier and capacitors if I recall correctly but don't want to through money at a dead horse

Thanks
Chris

#2 10 years ago

Start here: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

Follow the steps and don't short cut...the process is well through out and tested.
faz

#4 10 years ago

I looked at the web site and it was great, but I am getting to the point I need to pull the WPC board off to check for cracked solder. Question is, if I am going to pull it off, should I replace the bridge rectefiers and the C4, C5 & C11 caps? Your thoughts Everything else checks

#5 10 years ago

Test the bridges....see if they are good; if they are good,leave them. WPC boards have through hole plates that connect the front and the back side of the board. Very easy to rip out when exchanging a bridge. Only replace if you must.

I had a thread last month that "wiredoug" shared this link:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/11JPy4t36oo?autoplay=1&rel=0

faz

#6 10 years ago

I have a basic Craftsman multi meter but does not have an option for diode testing, I will need to find one thanks

Chris

#7 10 years ago

Don't get sucked into dumping $150 into a DMM. Just get a basic model that handles what you need.

Here's one for less than $40

http://www.menards.com/main/electrical/rough-electrical/wiring-accessories/testers/digital-multimeter/p-1460391-c-6452.htm

faz

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from RoughHouse:

I have a basic Craftsman multi meter but does not have an option for diode testing, I will need to find one thanks
Chris

What model craftsman meter do you have?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#9 10 years ago

I have the craftsman 82140 and I just found the setting on it. board coming off tonight

thanks guys

#10 10 years ago

well maybe morning

#11 10 years ago

Alright guys the board is out and I checked the rectifier, it checks OK it has been replaced in the past, but the heat sink was loose and by the smudged heat sink compound looks like it was never tight, so I am going to get some new compound and tighten the sink down. cap C11 measures at 1.5 volts and say it should measure 0.3V or 300 mV. C5 measures 0.4V so it seems in range, but I can't get a reading from the other caps. My meter only goes down to 0.1V so I am just guessing they are too low to measure. LM323 and the rectifiers look like they got hot so I am going to suck out and replace the solder one pin at a time. The plug at J121 is burned so I am going to repin that with a new push on with tefcon or what ever the pins are called. The existing plug is the one you just push the wires into, can I replace it with the push on? Thanks guys I will wait to here back before I order any parts. Plan now to just replace plug on J121 and C11

Chris

#12 10 years ago

J121 is for GI...while it needs to be fixed, it's probably not part of this problem.

Did you go through the Reset steps on PinWiki? You really need to do them all in order. Report back findings.
faz

#13 10 years ago

Yes I did, I followed all the steps and this is what I have found I figured as much for J121, but it looks like some possible fractured soldered joints and cap 11 Thats all I can find seems like everything else is working good

#14 10 years ago

Just for the record. What were the readings at all the test points?

If you replace any components on this board be very careful as to not rip out any of the through hole plates. Both sides of the power driver board contain circuitry. Part of the circuit will continue through the holes to the other sides. They are little tubes that connect solder pads on both sides of the board.

You might expect a component leg to complete the circuit by just going through the hole, but without the THP, the circuit is broken.

faz

#15 10 years ago

I didnt write down the reading at the center pin of MC34064, but I know it was close to TP2 which I wrote down 6.02. I didn't ready any other test points.

Another note is early on when the reset started to happen I would reseat J101, I then rebuilt the plug J101, then I rebuilt it again and soldered the trifucon pins, at that time I took the board out and refloed the solder on the male connector on the board. That is all I have done

I have a desoldering iron. Looks like a regular iron with a suction bulb on it, Radio shack deal I have use it before and works pretty good

#16 10 years ago

TP2 is 6.02V??!??! This is supposed to be 4.92 to 5.1 (quoth Clay). If that's accurate, there's something else going on. I would get some other feedback before diving deeper.

#17 10 years ago

Should I reinstall the board and test again? and what other tests should I do? I know there are a few test pins, should I check them all?

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from RoughHouse:

Should I reinstall the board and test again? and what other tests should I do? I know there are a few test pins, should I check them all?

Yes...you should recheck those readings.
6.02VDC indicates something is wrong...either with the regulator, or with the test.
Tuck the black lead under the head ground braid.
Measure each DC test point with the red lead.
Report back please.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#19 10 years ago

I will tonight. Could the heat sink on the bridge rectifiers being loose cause anything? I will pick up some grease from Radio shack tonight and put that back on tight

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from RoughHouse:

Could the heat sink on the bridge rectifiers being loose cause anything?

Nope...other than overheated and prematurely failing bridges.

Quoted from RoughHouse:

I will pick up some grease from Radio shack tonight and put that back on tight

Unless the tops of those two bridges are in the same plane, you'll need to remove one of the bridges to do this right. If you screw the heat sink to the bridges and they aren't in the same plane, you'll either damage the board, the bridge, or the heat sink won't be flush and provide the cooling it's supposed to.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#21 10 years ago

The rectifiers are flush, the heat sink was just loose and by the looks of the grease it was never tight

#22 10 years ago

Pretty sloppy rework I am going to reseat some pins and tighten the rectofiers and put the board back in and measure all the test points. Anything else I need to do in this process?

Thanks

#23 10 years ago

Ok guys, here is my update Resoldered some pins, was not easy as the solder did not want to take, just drip through the board, I guess thats why the work was sloppy to begin with. Reinstalled board and retested the test points. I clipped an aligator clip on the test pin to get a better reading
Pin 32 on game rom=5.01
Pin 2 on MC34064=4.99
TP1=13.15
TP2=4.99
TP3=11.98
TP4=0.31
TP5=0-0.01
TP6=77
TP7=22.9
TP8=15.5-17.9

I played one game and it worked I will put some more gamers on it tonight and see if it resets. Anything else for now?

Chris

#24 10 years ago

8 minutes later I hit new game and it reset. So I am thinking I still have a problem. So something has to get fixed

Thanks
Chris

#25 10 years ago

Tried several times to start a game but it kept reseting I I reseated plug J101 and was able to play most of a game but it reset before the game was over Just filling you guys in with all the info i can

#27 10 years ago

Nope just this one

#28 10 years ago

I thought I had the game fixed by reseating J210 & J114. Game played great great for about 15 games last night. turn on this morning and reset. TP2 is varying in reading from about 5.3-5.7. game resets and the voltage will not go below 5.3. It was doing this last night and after about 5 games the reading at TP2 settled down and stayed a constant 5.10. As the game is sitting in attract mode TP2 is bouncing around from 5.3-5.7 as mentioned above. any ideas. Everything I have read is if the reading at TP2 is below 4.92. What happens when it is at 5.3+

Chris

#29 10 years ago

Power off.
Remove J114, J116, J117, and J118 (if used).
Power on.
Now, does the DC voltage at TP2 exhibit the same variation?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#30 10 years ago

reading before shut down was about 5.40 varying, shut down unplugged the plugs reading near the same varying about 5.35-5.45. shut down and plugged back in reading dropped to about 5.10

#31 10 years ago

It's the "bouncing around" that concerns me. With the game doing nothing, that voltage should be solid, somewhere close to 5V. With everything disconnected, the 5V regulator is about the only thing that could cause this.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#32 10 years ago

Where is the regulator and can I test it? When I first get into the game the tp2 is high about 5.5+ then it will calm down and steady about 5.1

#33 10 years ago

The regulator is Q1, which has the big finned heat sink.
I'm unaware of a way to test it with simple tools.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#34 10 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Power off.
Remove J114, J116, J117, and J118 (if used).
Power on.
Now, does the DC voltage at TP2 exhibit the same variation?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Chris,

I noticed when I did this that there appeared to be a flash and I heard a knock, like the knocker on the top left of the back box. Tried playing this morning and there are a lot of items not working. Half the solenoids. I did a solenoid test and the first 8 tests do not work. I am thinking something popped or I burnt a fuse. Any thoughts? I am going to look through it tonight.

Thanks
Chris

#35 10 years ago

Feels like a need to go to basics.

1) Check all fuses (pull them out and test out of circuit)
2) Pull all the connectors off the power board (Clay talks about this too). Make sure all the power off the board is clean.
3) Start adding connections back one by one seeing if conditions on the power board change.

faz

#36 10 years ago
Quoted from RoughHouse:

Chris,
I noticed when I did this that there appeared to be a flash and I heard a knock, like the knocker on the top left of the back box. Tried playing this morning and there are a lot of items not working. Half the solenoids. I did a solenoid test and the first 8 tests do not work. I am thinking something popped or I burnt a fuse. Any thoughts? I am going to look through it tonight.
Thanks
Chris

In no way should that have happened.
As faz suggested, lift each fuse and "buzz" it with your meter. It sounds like the solenoid 1-8 fuse blew.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#37 10 years ago

Fuse 105 blew not sure if I had a plug touching something when I disconnected them or what happened. I also noticed and not sure if is new or not, but there are signs that the voltage regulator cooked. It looks like discoloration above it like it was from smoke. your thoughts. I read that the regulator is pretty cheap to replace. I just checked TP2 against a mounting screw and it was 5.04, then I put the ground on the door hing and it was bouncing from 5.3 - 5.78 went back to the screw and it was doing the same checked it in a couple spots and it finally settled down to 5.32. Where can I go get this fuse on a sunday afternoon? or is it an order item. looks like it is a slow blow 3A 250 volt.

Sorry to keep bothering you guys, but I am lost. I have worked this machine over, I have real good automotive knowledge and I am an engineer as well, so I should be able to figure this out, but not making sense that the voltage is too high and not to low

Thanks

#38 10 years ago

Radio shack has it. I will go get one here soon

#39 10 years ago

They're cheap, get a couple of each that you use.

#40 10 years ago

Rudy is happy and talking to me again. I played 1 1/2 games and reset. I measured TP2 after the reset and saw 5.9+v. I am going to pull off the J connectors again and see what the readings are or see if the fuse blows

#41 10 years ago

OK here is the update. I had the machine on and TP2 connected to tester, reading about 5.60 and bouncing. I pulled J114, then J116, and I think the voltage was still up, I didn't write it down and then when I pulled 117 it went down to about 5.10V. I then 118 and now change. I can't remember if the voltage drop was after I pulled 116 or 117. then I plugged back in and shut the game off. unplugged 114,116,117,118. turned the game back on and knock and flash and good by fuse. The flash was the fuse blowing. Put everything back together and TP2 was at a good 4.99 and steady. Played about 3 - 4 games and the voltage was around 5.0 and steady. then all of a sudden reset, TP2 was still at 5.0V I am at a lose.

Thanks

#42 10 years ago

OK...we are missing something here.
Post hires pics of the front and back of the board. Perhaps pics will help.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#43 10 years ago

photo test. this is one pic

IMG_1493.JPGIMG_1493.JPG
#44 10 years ago

Notice the smoke marks by the regulator Q1. Let me know if there is any where you want me to zoom into. Dumb question, but before I remove the board again, can you think of any test I need to do under load?

#45 10 years ago

That discoloration above the regulator is somewhat normal. That regulator gets hot...hence the big heat sink.
Nope...can't think of anything else.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#46 10 years ago

I tried to reflow the solder on a couple regulators and had a hell of a time as the solder just wanted to drop thought the board

IMG_1496.JPGIMG_1496.JPG IMG_1494.JPGIMG_1494.JPG IMG_1495.JPGIMG_1495.JPG
#47 10 years ago

Those solder joints on the big caps (I think it's the big caps) next to BR1/BR2 looks really weak...like the component wire is just balanced in the hole. There's a few there..

faz

#48 10 years ago

I looked close this morning and they are tight by my eye

#49 10 years ago

Did I stump you guys, or did you forget about me? Can I take the board to a pinball shop and have them diagnose the problem out of the machine? or do I need take the whole machine in?

#50 10 years ago
Quoted from RoughHouse:

OK here is the update. I had the machine on and TP2 connected to tester, reading about 5.60 and bouncing. I pulled J114, then J116, and I think the voltage was still up, I didn't write it down and then when I pulled 117 it went down to about 5.10V. I then 118 and now change. I can't remember if the voltage drop was after I pulled 116 or 117. then I plugged back in and shut the game off. unplugged 114,116,117,118. turned the game back on and knock and flash and good by fuse. The flash was the fuse blowing. Put everything back together and TP2 was at a good 4.99 and steady. Played about 3 - 4 games and the voltage was around 5.0 and steady. then all of a sudden reset, TP2 was still at 5.0V I am at a lose.
Thanks

I'm just lurking on the post and seems to be you are doing a lot of DC measuring, but I would be really curious to what your AC ripple is on that 5V rail...unless you already measured that as being good and I missed it.

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