Based on your description of the problem, it might be worth checking the switches on the swing reel.

F-F has a fairly maddening set up, with a lot of things tied together. Try checking these to start: M/B on Ball Index, Score motor Index C, and Eject relay sw. C.

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Hi n1teowl
You loose a ball - it enters the Outhole - You get 1000 points and again and again ...
Loosing a ball triggers a feature YOU can trigger when the ball is in play. See the JPG - as "my blue C" is swinging: The light (my blue D) steps. When the ball hits "my blue E": The stepping on "my blue D" stops, the "my blue F" light up - then when the ball hits "my blue C": You get 1000 or 5000 or 3000 points (eventually the gate opens) --- does this playfield feature works in Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi n1teowl
I try to make troubleshooting "easy" - You have Zero on the Swing Reel in the Backbox - You the let loose the ball when "my blue D" is lit on one of the 1000 points positions --- do You get endlessly, faulty points ? You +/- wrote this in Your post-1 --- I ask to be 150% sure. Greetings Rolf

Hi n1teowl
see the JPG in post-4, when the ball is in play: "my blue C" swings right - left - right etc. Everytime it is "outmost left": "My blue D" steps one step. How is the stepping (my blue D) when You loose the ball, fault starts to happen ? Same rhythm (stepping on the position my blue C is outmost left) ? Greetings Rolf

You checked this?

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The tedious thing that must be done on F-F is to track and check all the connections from one relay to the next and next.

This has now ticked off a memory, and I wish I had taken better notes, but I had a similar problem that did involve that kickout and fixed it by blocking a sw. Try 2A here and block with paper or whatever.

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Hi n1teowl
I believe in currieddog - he once had this pin and had a similar problem (I do own own one but never had to work on such problems).
Do You have the papertags in the pin - telling the name of every relay ? I started a game then lifted the playfield, manually made some points so the Ball-Index-Relay pulled-in and stayed pulling (I do this manually making some points on every new ball). On the lifted playfield, on the right --- many relays mounted in a line - the ninth relay is the Special Reel Reset-Relay. I tried both - Zero on the Swing-Reel in the Backbox as well as two on it. The reaction of my pin was the same --- I manually closed the Outhole-Switch for a rather long time - the Special Reel Reset Relay pulled-in - stayed pulled-in for quite a while - then it quit pulling. n1teowl - Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

Try 1D as well.

What happened with 1D blocked? Sorry if I'm sending you off the path as I try to refresh my memory ... I do remember my solution (similar problem) was a permanent block on a sw.

Hi n1teowl
You wrote a valuable observation in Your post-22 --- when having the fault: The Special Reel Reset Relay never closes, hmm, I did again my test (see post-16) --- the Relay closes in my pin. I had a look at the schematics --- see the JPG - I located the Ball Trough Relay on the lower end of the playfield (bottom - a bit to the left) I sneaked-in a stripe of paper in this switch (the middle of three switches) to keep the switch faulty always open. I then tested and I get the fault - same rhythm You describe in post-11.
Different is: I do have now the fault of getting many thousands of points to the Score-Drums no matter on the position of the Swing Reel (Backbox).
Have a look at the middle switch on Ball Trough Relay --- may want also sneak-in a stripe of paper to permanently, faulty have the switch open --- then play - reaction of Your pin ? Greetings Rolf

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n1teowl-I hope I am not insulting your intelligence here, but sometimes contacts "look" good, but aren't making good contact. Here is a good read: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#clean

Another possible somewhere in all of this is that you have a "floating contact" or two, ie-a contact that needs a good squeeze with some needlenose pliers because it it just a bit loose. That was one of many problems on my F-F.

Does the SRRR pull at all if energized by anything in the snippet in post 15? Have you tested the coil?

Did you check sw. D here? I do keep coming back to the memory of something similar and that it was solved by blocking a sw. on SRRR though. Try blocking each sw. one at a time if it's not the Tilt.

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Hi n1teowl
post(s) to come on "trouble-shooting". Here I show a "Work-Around" - You mount one doorbell-pushbutton - every time a new ball is given: You press once the pushbutton --- and the Special-Swing-Reel in the Backbox steps up one step - then You launch the ball and play ...

In my JPG You see: Once I have mounted such pushbuttons - doing a handycap-competition - the other player was allowed to press "right button" to open the gate on the right --- to press "left button" to open the ball return on the left - see https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=823&picno=52839 .

Write if You temporary want to do such a Work-Around --- write if You want help in the wiring. Greetings Rolf

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Hi n1teowl
good - You are not in a big rush. I have found the (old) topic where I was trying to understand the end of ball feature - see here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-fun-fest-issueshelp#post-4129867 . Also no big rush - I will mount testlights (as I show on Ball-Index-Relay-Coil and on Outhole-Relay-Coil in the JPG in post-23 there) --- to check in my pin the stuff done (order of, relays involved) in the end of ball feature.
(((There in post-28 I showed testing with an testlight when the pin does not step on the ball - changing the clip-on-S-Start-Point of the testlight on new tests))).
Greetings Rolf

Hi n1teowl
in post-33 I showed a link to another topic. At the time it was nice that the OP wrote: "It works now - stable" so we stopped brooding on the schematics and the "End of ball feature". Sad for us: Therefore I still do not completely understand this feature. For practical reasons I show here (again) the old JPG. Important (see the JPG) at "1" / "2": The closed Outhole Switch makes the "Ball Trough Relay" pull and pull and pull. This means when You are testing, having the playfield lifted, You manually activate the Outhole-Switch: Keep the switch closed for a looooong time - until the Outhole-Relay actuates the Kicker to kick a new ball out. The pin relys on the fact that the Ball Trough Relay is pulling for a looooong time (and actuates its switches).

I have a problem - in post-20 You write +/- "when there is 'Zero' on the Swing-Reel in the Backbox then the Special Reel Reset Relays (SRRR) does not actuate" --- in post-26 You write +/- "Sneaking-in a stripe of paper into the middle switch on Ball-Trough-Relay I (means You) have the faulty behaviour all the time".
Well, problematic is: The middle switch on Ball-Trough-Relay is the one that does make the SRRR to pull-in - post-20-SRRR-not-actuates, post-26-we-guarantee-the-SRRR-does-not-actuate - strange You have different reactions ...

Troubleshooting: When the pin has to reset the Swing-Reel (Backbox) having 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 visible in the backbox: TWO motor turns of 180 degrees needed.
When the pin has to reset the Swing-Reel (Backbox) having 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 visible in the backbox: ONE motor turns of 180 degrees needed. Look here https://www.ipdb.org/files/972/Williams_1973_Fun_Fest_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf on page 11 (original numbering page 9) - unplug wire Y-B. Start a game - step the Swing Reel in the Backbox so it shows "7" --- then loose the ball --- fault or no fault ?
(((with '7' shown the motor does one turn of 180 degrees less then when "1" or "2" or "3" or "4" are shown --- causes the "one less turn" a difference in behaviour ? ))) Greetings Rolf

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Hi n1teowl
Yes - You are right (post-36). I read post-16 again - MY PIN does make the SRRR also to pull-in when I have ZERO on the Swing-Reel in the Backbox (YOUR PIN does not). HERE is a fault.

Lets look at the JPG in post-35: A,B,C,F make the (E) Ball-Index-Relay to pull-in, stay pulling for the rest of the life of this ball. You loose the ball - this happens: 1, 2, the 3 - switch is still as drawn as the motor not yet turns, 4 the Ball Return Relay is pulling so switch is closed, 5 the switch is moved (other than drawn) as the Ball-Index-Relay is steady pulling, 6 the Bonus-Relay is not yet pulling, switch is still closed --- SEVEN the Center Target Relay does / must actuate and stay pulling through 8,9. Does Your Center Target Relay actuates ? If not: You must look at "4,5,6".
The pulling Center Target Relay makes the motor to run - "15" therefore is closed --- 11 and 12, SRRR pulls-in and stays pulling at least for the rest of a motor run. You need a running motor and a pulling Ball Trough Relay so 15, 11 make the 12, SRRR to pull-in. Greetings Rolf

Hi n1teowl
the End-of-Ball-fault is happening and You see as You write in post-38 "Set-Up-Relay rhythmically closes - opens - closes etc". See the first JPG - the ball is laying in the Outhole (and faulty never leaves) so the Ball Trough Relay endlessly pulls - Switch SU-1therefore is endlessly closed. In some way the motor is made running - endlessly. Every time the turning motor passes Home-Position (You see this position on the Index Cam - down and up move the switches on it) - a short moment the switch SU-2 is closed (the Home Position) - Initial current flows to the coil - SU-3 pulls-in - moves its switches - so SU-4 (its so-called Self-Hold-Switch) closes - the SU-3 stays pulling - but towards the end of a turn of the motor SU-5 actuates and cuts the Self-Hold-Circuitry of SU-3. But the motor turn further - reaches Home-Position - Initial Current flows and the relay pulls-in etc. This is normal reaction of the pin on such faults like End-of-Ball-fault. The explanation on "Center Target Relay" is alike.

In my second JPG we see another switch on the Swing Reel Unit in the Backbox --- to end the stepping when Zero-Position is reached.

One more check - if "No Luck": we then must mount Testlights parallel to Coils on several relays to see the sequence / succession of pulling-in. The theory behind the "one more check" is whacky - see the JPG in post-35 - the "switch red '15' " is no good - sometimes current can flow - sometimes not --- when the Swing Reel in the Backbox must be resetted: Switch "red 14" is closed - a short time of pulling-in of "SRRR, red 12" closes the Self-Hold-Switch "red 13" --- red 15 is allowed to break-open too early --- the Self-Hold-Circuitry through closed "red 14" and "red 13" KEEPS the "red 12" pulling. The Index-Cam is next to the real motor - "Ind-C, my red 15" is bottom-up the third switch on the stack - it is an three-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch.
Please inspect this switch. Greetings Rolf

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Glad you found it! And it wasn't necessary to donate, but thanks much!!

Hi n1teowl
great - YOU found the fault. Thanks for the kind words and the donation (post-40).
By now You probablay are more in the mood to look at the two alterations I did in my Fun Fest. It is a Fun pin - good to play with friends that seldom play pinball --- the factor "Luck" is dominant (everybody sometimes is lucky). Playing alone - well loosing the last (fifth) ball in "getting 1000 points end of ball feature" is tripled to 3000 points - 5000 is tripled to 15'000 - a difference of 12'000 - pure luck in the loosing the last ball. So the
first alteration I did was / is (see the JPG, bottom right): I cut the wire - soldered-on extension wires coming to the coin door - I can open the coin door and plug-in and have original (triple bonus on the last ball) --- I can unplug - and have only single bonus on the last ball.

The second alteration is about "opening the Gate" - see left side of the JPG - I soldered-on looooong wires, hanging loose from the playfield, down into the cabinet, to the coin door. I plug-in and have the alteration - or I unplug and have "original". Greetings Rolf

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Nice mod, Rolf. Personally, I loved Triple Bonus.