The real question is how bad are you going to low ball yourself?

Will you take 400 dollars? I have cash, and I am serious!

I find this response very interesting.

...and revealing.

I think I know what you are getting at...

Is Hugsc a duplicate account of yours?

Atleast we can say we each have a buddy. Unlike you thats putting a another nail in your coffin with every post. Nice job, keep it up. But dont worry, when I find you a $600 Pinbot I'll still sell it to you for $300.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

What about my lamp offer?

You could probably do more good for yourself if you just took a break from Pinside for a while, rather that saying things like, "You'll find out that I am a good person to deal with."

It's like people that brag about how much money they make. Usually, they are full of themselves.

I offered him a grand for the Taxi and he said quote " You have to give more towards a trade then $1000, I've got several guys that want it ". This was when he wanted to trade me for my Tron but wouldn't come right out and tell me how much he wanted for the Taxi and that I need to tell him what its worth and when I did tell him what its worth to me he got pissy about it. I told him to" sell it to one of the other guys then". Low and behold its now here for sale at $2500.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836

Pete is not one of the people I've discussed you with, honestly. John and I spent maybe a moment when he might have mentioned a low-ball offer on a machine I bought from him.

These aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm just trying to help you out here, and asking you for a moment of self-reflection.

The whole 'compete for sales or deals' attitude is honestly the attitude that keeps people from feeling you're a community member, and fosters the feeling of you being a somewhat of a parasite. I don't think Pete or John feel like they're 'competing' with each other for sales or anything. They're just friends.

Cory, I find your pretending to be someone else to stroke your own sale threads unprofessional.

Sure Pete and I are friends. Fact is that we live only 20 minutes away from each other and that probably has alot to do with it, and the same with Kruzman and a few others (sorry if I'm leaving anyone out) but not necessarly competing with each other I dont think. We all have our own little deals going on that we may or may not mention to each other until its done or maybe its because we may not even speak to each other for months at a time ( hey were all busy ) but when we do see or talk to each other its always fun to catch up on the latest deals and whats going on in the community.

I think what Todd said is good advice. Take some time off and rethink how you want to proceed in the world of pinball because if there's one thing I've learned in this hobby is that your reputation is EVERYTHING and the minute you do something to discredit that good reputation....we'll your done for and you might as well start collecting something else because nobody will want to deal pinballs with you. Take my advice any way you want too but I've lived by it for the last 17 years in this hobby and I can still hang my head high at every pinball show or event and shake someone's hand without being scarred there gonna kick my ***.

Anyways, just my two cents.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836

boo_this_man_half_baked.gif

So to sum things up:
1.) You constantly bump your for sale ads to keep them on the front page, sometimes within hours of each other
2.) You created a fake account to also bump your ads now
3.) You low-ball everyone and their brother who have related ads on Craigslist while believing your stuff is worth 2X cost
4.) We're pretty sure you're also the same dude constantly posting wanted ads on CL trying to sucker someone into selling you a pinball machine for cheap
5.) You search CL daily looking for deals and then repost them here for a much higher price

Good luck buying that container ship of pinball machines. Hope you're not taking a loan out to finance them because you've ticked off most of the Michigan pinball community and probably most of Pinside now, which means you're going to have a very tough time trying to "flip" them.

Who are these people in state? Inquiring minds want to know.

Beer cracked, popcorn popped. It's gametime.

Just playing Devil's Advocate as an outside spectator to this whole fiasco, but what exactly is Choggard doing wrong? (other than supposedly creating a fake account to bump his own stuff)

Choggard- Flipper
Pete- Flipper
John- flipper

The only difference being- Initial asking price? Bumping more? Lowering offering price? combination of all three? At what point is Choggard the "Bad Guy" and Pete and John "the Good Guys"?

I don't know Choggard, but what he does (other than the supposed multiple accounts) isn't that different than what Pete, John, and multiple others do all the time....Most guys I know (myself included) actually make a few bucks here and there to help fund the hobby.

Oh snap

I'll be totally honest...this post made my blood boil. I'll do my best to keep my response level-headed.

John Dayhuff is an incredible asset to our community. I can't count the number of times that he's helped out someone in the hobby. He's always willing to give advice, support, and is instantly friendly to all.

Every year, he opens up his home to everyone for one of the greatest pinball parties anyone has ever seen...and buys everyone pizza and pop. He never asks for a dime in return. He puts on an incredible Zen tournament, and provides a crap-ton of prizes. He has an amazing collection, and shares his love of pins with everyone he comes across. Attacking him is just flat out disgusting.

Yes, he sells games...as do I. There's just no other way to afford the things we have without doing that (or, being a millionaire, I guess). I do take offense to the term "flipper", though.

John and I have large collections that we DO NOT turn over. I would say that 90% of our collections are not for sale, and never will be for sale. Those games are part of our collections because we absolutely LOVE pinball...not because they are some commodity to be bought and sold. I've been collecting for over a decade, and John has been doing it far longer than me. We are not "fly by night" guys who just arrived on the scene to profit.

Let me be very, very clear: I love pinball. I love all of the friends I've made in the past decade of collecting. I love talking pinball, and I love sharing my games with others. I love helping others out, and being a positive member of the community. Selling games is NOT my focus. Being able to enjoy this fantastic hobby is my focus...and selling games is a very, very small part of that.

When I do sell something, I follow basic etiquette and ethics. I do my best to keep all conflicts off-group. I do not bump my posts countless times. I consolidate posts if I have multiple games for sale. I do NOT post 35 times in a 50 post thread...bumping my goods in the night, morning, the next day...and then make a secondary account to re-bump when I'm not getting traction. Those things are NOT ETHICAL (and let's face it...flat out annoying).

Sorry if my emotions got the better of me. I can say that I strongly disagree with your post.

Pete

Ok, I'll play for a minute. The constant emails and low balling offers on games that I'm selling is enough to get on the nerves in about two seconds. Then when he's selling something and cant even tell me how much he wants for it and that I have to make a offer....., (we'll I'm not very keen on that to being with and told him so) and then get told that I HAVE to offer more and this is been a on going thing and not just one incident. I'm done. Yes I'm a flipper, who here isn't?......but its the way you go about it. Should I leave 60+ games a year for someone else to find and flip ? Would you ?

Whoops.....my minute is up. Gotta go.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836

For what it's worth I am just interested in the Taxi.. I was thinking that $1,600 would be a fair price on it..

Pete,

Why would this post make your blood boil? A flipper is anyone that bought a machine, did nothing to it, and made a few bucks on it when they sold it. I would say that a minimum of 80% of the people on here are/have been flippers at one time or the other.

A flipper is just one characteristic of someone, not their entire existence. Based on your post and other's, you take "flipper" to mean someone that is only into pinball to make money. I think the number of people that are "flippers" in this light would actually be very low. There is far too little money to be made in pinball for someone to make a living out of it, they would have a better living flipping burgers on the side....

I don't personally agree with Choggard's antics, in fact I have a fun little game I play beofre I open one of his "for sale" posts.... I like to guess some astronomical number and see how close I am when I actually read the post. I was actually pleasantly surprised that I guessed *high* for the first time ever on one of Choggard's FS posts...

Its very fair if your selling it to your self.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, MI.
269-979-3836

I completely understand that. Luckily there are great tools to block him that cost nothing. I am a firm believer in giving a guy enough rope to hang himself, and whether Choggard sees it or not, he is getting a little more rope each hour he bumps.

As far as finding 60+ games a year to find and flip, yeah, I have left plenty of deals out there for others. I may shop out one or two games a month to keep my hands busy and my mind off of work. 60+ games a year would not be a hobby for me, it would be a job. I have done and have been the recipient of MANY pay it forward deals, that is what keeps this a hobby for me.

If you are able to keep this a hobby at 60 games a year, more power to you. I would be sick of pinball in short order at that volume.

Well there you go.

There are a few key differences here.

1. Honesty. Pete is up-front about having multiples of a game when he does. John fairly represents what he's selling. Cory, meanwhile, appears to use a second account, lying about who he is, to stroke his sales.

2. Communication. This is a big one. Pete has been respectful when I've asked about games he has for sale, as has John. Choggard, on the other hand, badgered me over the course of several PMs to make him an offer on a game. When he finally quoted me a price, it was too high, and I told him that I was not interested in dealing with him and his price was too high. He badgered me to make a counter-offer. I did, he declined, and then badgered me to make him a better offer. After I ignored him, he contacted me later with another one of the same game, and badgered me about potentially buying that one from him.

3. Thread bumping. Pete does it occasionally. John does it rarely. Choggard does it hourly, and it's a nuisance.

4.. Dedication to the hobby/community. John and Pete both have collections that stay with them. They talk about pinball outside of just buying and selling. They play pinball. Choggard's only real involvement in the community as far as I can tell is flipping games.

5. Asking prices. John and Pete offer up fair deals. Pete in particular has posted games that, even if he is making money on them, I would feel comfortable paying his prices, because they are fair. Choggard tries to squeeze every last penny out of every game. He asks for amounts that are laughable.

ENOUGH!!!

What you are doing now is wrong. I avoid your threads because i cannot be positive. This here is crossing the line. I know you i like you your a good person. Please stop this madness before you have a hobby you love with nobody to enjoy it with you.

Chris Rock

It's just a question of semantics, but I don't agree with your definition of flipper; I (like Pete, I believe) would only identify someone as a flipper if that was his defining characteristic.

HAHA! I do the same on occasion. I thought I was the only one.

I see a new trend about to emerge: "Guess Choggard's price (no cheating)" threads.

There's quite a bit of difference, to tell you the truth. John and Pete seem to find good deals on initial asking prices, not by insulting someone with a half-price offer. Then, once these guys have the games, they then sell them for around market price, from what I can see. Plus, as has been stated earlier, they are generous with their time (by helping people out with pinball problems), machines (by letting people play them), and their own money (by hosting pretty kick butt parties, from what I understand).

This is a far cry from low ball offers and insanely high asking prices only to bump your way into oblivion keeping yourself way up on the discussion board at all times. Nothing that Cory is doing is illegal, of course, but when it's behavior that grates on people (lots and lots of people), perhaps there's something to it. And when you deny over and over again or make excuses like "everyone on here is friends and they're all against me", which is clearly not true and other accusations like the one leveled against me that I sold my machine out under his nose, that really sends people over the top.

Put it this way, if a level-headed guy like Tamoore is telling you that it wouldn't be a bad idea to tone it down a notch, it wouldn't be bad advice to take.

This is just getting sad now.

Fair enough, and I completely understand and respect that, but to be fair, I only know 99% of the people on here based on the internet conversation only. I can only form an opinion of someone based on interactions with them here (or in person obviously), and I don't see Choggard's postings being much different than Pete and John's postings on here, other than frequency, pricing, and focus.

I have met both Pete and John in person, and both are clearly pinball enthusiasts. If I hadn't met either of them in person, I would have a different opinion of them based on Internet postings only (moreso John than Pete). If I met Choggard in person, I would imagine I would meet someone else who is a pinball enthusiast as well, but may need meds to keep him calm (LOL, no harm no foul Choggard).

All true. Only thing I can say to that is dont play the guessing game with people when it comes to putting a price on a game that your selling. Usually it never ends good for either person. The seller wants as much as he can get, the buyer wants it cheaper then dirt. NOT saying always but many times this is the case with anyone. Set a price on it and let people know it right out the gate. If there still interested in it they will come back to you.

Dang it !! Thats another minute. I gotta get back to this party stuff........LOL.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

I'll play!

John and Pete sold me most all of what I have had in my collection! Every price was fair and I am happy to play them and NEVER begrudge the sale. John and Pete also give me their time to help me with my noob-ish questions because if they keep me happy, I will be back with cash in hand!

Take care of your customers, and they become your friends! I am very happy and grateful that the pinball community is around. When fair-weather friends have fallen away, I know I have dependable and faithful guys I can depend on!

Another bump, you need to grow up a bit obviously. I had the same problem when I was 20. People try to give me good advice, but I was digging in worse and worse, to a fault. Listen to Todd Moore's advice. He's trying to help you. It's not that your a bad guy, I've heard a couple guys (say some good things about you). But these antics are growing old with all the pinball veterans in Michigan. It's a small(pinball) world and you need to chill out. Im not trying to be condescending, but my kids think so on occasion. Todd Scott.

Choggard = Hugsc = Duplicate account = Pinside rules violation = ban.

NICE !!

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek,MI
269-979-3836

Hopefully he comes back in a few months with a better perspective...

Sorry I opened this thread.

GLWS

as the pinside turns...

Hehe

Probably too late, but feel like I should speak up.
I bought a pin from Cory. It was as described and a fair price. He was good to deal with on the phone and by email. He went out of his way to make pickup easy for me. He was a very nice guy in person.
I just don't get his attitude here, and the duplicate account to bump his own for sale threads was just odd and clearly wrong. I don't know why a seemingly nice guy would operate like that.
Hopefully he can come back at some point and behave like the guy he seems to be in person.

The Judge has made his decision.

judge.jpeg

This was a fun thread to read this morning while drinking my coffee getting ready for work!

See most of you on Saturday. Gonna be a good time.

I think Chog lives about 10-15 minutes from me. I don't agree with the way he has been doing business on here at all, and that second account....lol. Too funny. He seemed nice in some PMs back and forth, but I've never net him and I don't ever want to be lumped in with him. Tried to see him as a nice guy, true colors gave been exposed. Game over.