Again, that's between the buyer and seller. If this was my FS thread, I'd be livid.

And I've taken pics that looked good when the machine wasn't (playfield wear, niks/dings in the cab, etc.), and pics that made the game look horrible when it was good... certainly a 3rd party looking at a pic and then making a determination that will destroy someone's for sale thread is not cool IMO.

A simple picture is all we need . Why is this your business anymore than mine ????

This is all about disclosure and credibility. If the OP has nothing to hide, then the buyer has nothing to worry about. Or future buyers of anything else he may want to sell.

The op will not post the link because he knows I am right . He is posting new pictures Monday. I could fix all the stuff wrong with it in a day with my set up. If he is honest he will post the exact link NOW !

Make me look bad right now this instant! That would be the OPs best move as he has the pictures now.

Pictures please

I think u are taking care of that on your own.... I think you made your point.

I think you made your point and now it seems your taunting. You have pointed out potential issues and stated why. Potential buyers now have this information to take into consideration, and as a interested party I appreciate that.....now, lets leave it at that.

The Op should have listed it in the Market place if he didn't want criticism. I made this mistake when posting my MM for sale a week after the announcement... you want to talk about derailing! This is Forum. Was the OP thinking that all he was going to receive were the typical "GLWS" or the always funny "Wish I were closer". I think that McCune has every right to post his opinion in what is a "opinion based forum" like this. He saw some picture that didn't seem to describe what he considers "Restored". The OP should open the link to the pictures that McCune saw so we can all see who will eat crow.

I have an MMr on order that is paid in full. I was considering this game instead.... I thank guys like McCune that are able to point out things that my inexperienced collectors mind may miss. No harm no foul. Thanks for looking out!
To the OP, it will sell, it does look great!

Jim,

This notion that you are "looking out" for other Pinsiders is questionable. You seem to use these opportunities to show folks how your pins/restorations are perfect and other examples are less-than-perfect. You pissed all over my FT post one year ago. I guess you objected to the "High End" designation and felt like showing everyone pictures of your MM restoration. My Congo ended up selling for top dollar to a very experienced pin collector. So in this instance, your taunting probably helped sell the pin

All that said, I think "looking out" for other Pinsiders is goodness. It just seems like your attempts to actually provide this service fall short of the mark. I don't see anything that suggests Eric is trying to take advantage of anyone. Eric is an honest guy and credit to the hobby.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ft-high-end-congo-restoration-for-high-end-paragon-restoration

Care to share why you are sticking with MMR?

Nothing against the seller at all. His game looks great!

I just feel like I am on an island here when it comes to pin repairs. I know they all break down, NIB included. I have had issues with my SWDE and LOTR that I cannot solve. I am hoping to have to do "less" (???) to a NIB. (My METLE and AC/DC are fine, knock on wood). There are a lot of great collectors in Michigan, but not too many in my area. I have put out ads to pay stupid money to have someone with knowledge come and fix my machines. I know they are simple issues….they just elude me.

I am not great at Pinball….not even close. I just collect themes I like which leads to very rare sales. I like to tinker, but get frustrated when I can't figure things out. I always wanted a MM for my son…(I have said in other threads, he is a Castle/Knight fanatic). I never had the financial ability to buy one at the 12K+ pricing. When this MMr was announced, I knew I had to jump on it.

Maybe I am a pinball yuppie? I don't understand the new tech being put in. I am not an audiophile so I probably won't even notice the improved speech samples? Colour DMD, I could care less. I am just hoping to get something that will look great, play fast and last without any issues.
I understand the adage "they don't build 'em like they used to"…… but for me, there is some piece of mind (I know that is an illusion) of owning new and having the expectation that it won't break down.

What exactly do you think the price will be from SB when yours comes in? 8k US, converted to CAN, plus taxes, you'll be pushing 10k maybe more by the end anyway, AND that's only if the CAN dollar stays where it is.

If there IS rust under the playfield, and not just an allegation, one has to wonder how many other original MMs are effected by this. Classic cars that get restored with rust creeping underneath is a big no-no. Can be a huge job. I've not owned a pin with rust under the playfield. What's the impact?

This has nothing to do with MM this can happen to any title new or old depending on where/how it's been stored, etc. Metal rusts (usually just surface rust) under certain conditions. Simple as that... seen it in reimports more than anything in my experience.

Yeah but what's the impact? If an original MM has rust under the playfield and an MMr does not, what does a new owner of said MM have to worry about that a new owner of an MMr doesn't especially if the prices are relatively equal?

They have to worry about rust under the play field... obviously!

But since MMr is unproven at this point who knows what MMr owners may have to worry about down the road... just like WoZ owners

I'd rather have this one than mmr, but am just tapped out of space.

Most of the time rust under the playfield only affects your ability to use the desciptive terms 'restored', 'cq', 'minty' etc....

Ok. We can probably agree that there is a higher probability that originals would have rust started (if at all) versus a newly shipped game. How does rust impact gameplay? What risks are associated with rust?

Corrosion is bad for electrical connections , bulb sockets ,etc. & deterioration of the metal if not dealt with.

Its pretty simple, you don't want rust on play field parts. Especially the moving parts. You would have to take the time to remove and clean/replace all the metal that were affected. Not fun and time consuming but really not much choice... but not the end of the world either.

I don't see evidence of rust yet. It could be a total non issue or a huge issue. Anyone thinking about this pin shouldn't overreact to one unsubstantiated claim, but should obviously check on their own.

That gif is of Bruce Campbell in Waxwork II.

Literally, the best part of the movie....which was pretty crappy.

NSFL, by the way.

I have the picture that proves what I stated. This info is for the unsuspecting buyer who believes they are getting a MM that is beautiful in every way!

To me " beautiful in every way" means almost perfect and I would bet it means the same to the buyers that are going to shell out 9k for a MM.

9K for a MM that is beautiful in every way is a smoking deal. This game had some issues that I though people should know about .

It is so hard to say anything on Pinside because you get totally attacked and called a Liar . I am not a Liar and have nothing to gain by posting anything ! By the looks of this thread I should have let this be and let a buyer buy a game that has a misleading description.

I know that I would want to know the details if I was about to pull the trigger on a expensive game.

I am not taunting anyone and only posted and quoted more because I am being threatened with a slander law suit by the OP . I have slandered no one and gave my opinion in a pinball information forum.

It is not my fault people over state the conditions of their games on Pinside. The secrecy and bulling that goes on is down right scary. Are we pinball Bothers that look out for one another? Or are we a gang that insures our games sell for the most with no bad light opinions or we get a threatening PM and called names ?

I have nothing against the OP and I hope he corrects the few issues with the game and discloses all things that might not be " beautiful in every way" !

Have a good one .

Jim

As an innocent bi-stander with no association to anyone contributing to this thread, accept myself, I post these remarks. You have an allegation of the represented game condition, you have a seller up in arms over these allegations. The game is listed as "fully restored" with some high quality upgrades, IE: chrome, brass, clearcoat, speaker, Etc. You have the seller stating that he was offered 15K a year ago, and a sale that fell through because that potential buyer had his own sale fall through. The seller is describing the underside metal parts described as "not tumbled". From the outside looking in, why doesn't the seller simply post a few pics of the playfield underside and put this BS to rest?
If the picture shown, taken from the "PUBLIC LINK" of the Photobucket account, that is in fact connected to the seller at hand, where is the rust? Looks very acceptable to me for parts that were not tumbled.

IMG_3860_zps25770a21.jpg~original.jpg

Provided that your assertions about the rust are correct, I couldn't agree with your sentiments more.

I was going to keep quiet, but since this is blown up, I thought it best to tell everyone my perspective as we are a Pinhead community.

I was a serious buyer earlier in this thread. The OP sent me the link to the pictures and I saw a few things that kept me from buying. "Beautiful in every way!" and some other statements in the OP means different things to different people. To me it meant a great deal at $8500. After reviewing the pictures from the link that the OP sent me I did see corrosion on the underside of the PF and when the OP asked me why I backed out, this is the reason I stated. I saw a few other issues as well, but maybe I'm being picky?? But $8500 is a lot of money to me and most people so it's wise to be careful. I'm not an expert.

Just to be clear, I didn't back out due to a lack of funds or a sale of mine falling through.
If you are talking about someone else, I apologize. Just want to clear the air. The timing of our PM's and the machine going off the market and then back on could be confusing me.

The link went private to me too. Not sure why?

For those who can't stand negative comments: TOO BAD!
Forum = discussion. Market place = classified ads.
Opinions vary. When I sell pins I expect good and bad comments. Such is life.

Chris

^ Guess that puts the issue to rest.

Why did he make the link to the pictures private?

th-5.jpeg

o-din

I don't have a dog in the hunt, but if pictures are only available to interested buyers, strike one against the seller. It's still probably a great game, but as a casual observer, the seller has earned a much higher level of scrutiny from me at least.

As an afterthought, I would like to add that the "drama" so many whine about is almost always driven by at least one party being caught misleading others in support or criticism of the seller or merchandise up for sale. Of course there is "drama" when there are disagreements. To complain about such things is to misunderstand basic discourse. And those who are most vocal about the "drama" are usually the ones that actually have a dog in the hunt. It's really just a way to try to shut down the discourse when it seems support for your side of the argument is diminishing.

I didn't get mine from SB. Paid a long time ago when the Canadian dollar was at par (if not a little less). I am crossing my fingers that i get a friendly "have a good day" when I bring it across the border

Besides, everything you are stating would have applied to the 12K+ machine - in the end, I am still "saving" at least 4K!

I would agree the chances of a MMR having rust under playfield is greater than a Hobbit yet to be built.

This picture is from the Public link that was shared. I don't say shit just to say shit. This is important information that all potential buyers should be aware of .

I don't get why people are allowed to post wrong descriptions of their games for sale. This needs to stop!

Me getting Hate PMs and tons of thumbs down just proves to me how people don't understand what is going on here.

If the game was described as a Redecaled and CC pf with lots of patina on the metal parts ,I would have not said anything.

_{Post edited by moderator: Images removed on owners request}

I am local to this seller. I know him and we don't get along.

With that said it is still a smokin deal and if I did have a relationship with him it would be sold!

Think the bashing needs to settle down.

Actions speak louder than words...

OP didn't offer pics to resolve & then we see the pics above. OP says buyer backed out for one reason, buyer pops in & states the real reason. OP reports McCune to a mod like a lil snitch & now this FS thread is a documented reason why you should reconsider dealing with the OP.

I have seen this same condition before, it comes from living to close to the ocean or inland salt waters.

Well, according to those pics, this is not a " fully restored MM ", but a really nice looking great condition MM. Pics speak louder than word.

What causes that dark area under the pf on the wood around the lightsocket?

Is it perfect? Nope.
Is it really nice? Yup.
Is it a fair price? I'd say so.
Did it deserve this...

Nope. That is still a dick move.

I've stated this before on both Pinside and RGP.

I bought a game 20 years ago from Myrtle Beach, SC that had this same condition that I had to end up selling.

Since then, it's one of the reasons why I've never bought a game that was near the ocean.

However, it is also caused by high humidity exposure if a dehumidifier is not present.

Really ?

To be honest - the first messages without the example seemed pretty aggressive, but the message today showing the issue is completely called for and I appreciate it. I WISH someone had commented like that on a game I bought and had shipped.

If the price is too good to be true for a "fully restored, beautiful in every way" pin, it usually is. Good catch, Jim. We can always count on you to say it like how it is.

Buy the game then.... don't be a weak dick about it

The MMr will likely meet its shipping deadline.

Why not just strip the playfield and clean up the bottom side and tumble or replace the parts as needed then sell it .

I thought it was supposed to ship the 2nd quarter of 2014? Now what is it?