Good points all around, and I certainly wouldn't be looking to sell in the first year (so the reigns on flippability aren't a negative to me personally).

I'll just say a combination of the general risks of prepayment, bad vibes from seemingly "out of nowhere" blasts like this, the snail's pace of WOZ deliveries, lack of updates on Hobbit, and the drop in WOZ prices is making me lean towards backing out and waiting to buy one when they materialize... Just my choice, and I do hope for the best for the company and its customers...

Someone tell me what pinball company DOES provide a warranty for non-original owners please? Be happy to be enlightened, because I thought the answer was zero.

Seems like WoZ has a lot more quality control problems and failures in early life than Stern games do, so the warranty issue is a lot more worrisome in their case. Hopefully JJP will at least replace known defective parts like the LED boards for 2nd hand owners.

What does any of that have to do with JJP policy, written or posted here?

People are just going off what Jack and volunteer Alex have posted in the past. IMHO

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This may be the only time I actually AGREE with PinChroma!

Wow Jack! Probably one of the worse things you could post on a public forum.

With the issues some games have had, I think it's important for ANY buyer to know they're going to be taken care of.

Ultimately, regardless of who's selling the game, or for how much, it obviously came from you.

I don't know the history between you and Bene, nor do I care, or think it matters. What matters is the person that will be enjoying the game's play, will know if something goes wrong, they're not going to have to worry if they'll have an $8K paper weight or not.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Totally agree...

Jack had a chance to hit one out of the park and regain some customer confidence but instead he pulled another 'Ruby Red' and pissed more current and potential customers off... he should have said:

" Even though Bene is an unauthorized JJP distributor and warranties are not transferable we will however be making an exception here and we will be happy to take care of the common issues that have plagued so many WoZ LE owners from the start (i.e. light board, etc.) We realize these issues are directly related to bad design and are no one's fault but OUR own. We are striving to make every WoZ owner very happy and we will correct these issues for every WoZ owner regardless of where it was purchased. This will not be the case for our future titles unless you buy direct from an authorized JJP distributor."

Just to be clear bene IS NOT an authorized stern or JJP dealer but merely a shill. You will not be covered by either company. Buy from reputable dealers who WILL stand behind their product and not misrepresent what they sell. Buyer beware. Bene pinballs is NOT a stern or JJP dealer.

I bought a NIB XMen LE secondhand from a Pinsider who wasn't a dealer. We all know all the problems that those LEs had and I had no problems whatsoever getting warranty parts for the game. Never once did they ask me who I bought it from. Stern backs their warranty on pins even if you're the second owner.

Jack and Bene may have a history, I do not know. But Bene is stepping up with a 90 day warranty, it is Jack who is stepping down with no warranty, in this situation.

Words are cheap. Actions speak loud. Buyer beware. This about buying from reputable people.

Don't know either man, thought it was about the warranty, is all. If Bene does not back up what he has posted, it will come out eventually.

Will Bene be able to get all parts, if needed?

There are new folks who get the impression bene is a stern or JJP dealer and he is NOT. Buyer beware.

_{Post edited by moderator: booted from thread for name calling}

Can jack really be this stupid to post this, especially when the games are having so many issues out of the box?
Jack, maybe you should worry about filling orders and fixing all the woz issues instead of making it a point to hurt sales on the seconday market, for your own product!
I'm glad I sold my WOZ. I'm just sorry I supported you in the first place.

Think that was clear from Jack's 2nd post on this thread, concerning JJP.

Stern, don't know if its official, but the hooked me up with a new board as a second owner of ACDC and hooked me up with parts long after the official warranty was up on my XM LE.

Jack said he will cover the game, just not on his dime. Its shifty enough, we don't need to start with the $8k paperweight and the will he even be able to get parts comments.

THIS....

Seriously guys. Think about this for a minute. The whole warranty issue is the SAME across the board, yet you want JJP to operate differently simply because WOZ, the first title ever from JJP has some issues? And the policy of a one year warranty is designed to eliminate flipping and selling off of spots, something which everyone hates. Many of you brought up the auto industry as an example, but come on, this hobby has nowhere near the level of support or maintenance available. It's not like JJP or Stern have dealerships with service departments all over America.

JJP is known for their incredible customer service. Just don't ask them to re-write the industry policy and when they don't slam them. That's 100% unfair.

Exactly, it's not official. And now that you've posted this, everyone will run to them and want the same and they will official say it's not part of their warranty. That's the problem with all of this...all these companies want to deal with customers on a one-to-one basis. But they can't because people run to the forums, brag about what they got, and everyone wants the same. Companies would go out of business if that happened. So the moral of the story is..if they make an exception for you, be happy and don't run to the forums to brag about it.

Not sure that was the real Jack posting, seems very bad from a PR perspective to me, why is he even posting on a FS thread?

Maybe he's been hitting the sauce. That's usually the case when I make questionable posts.

Or his account was hacked like all those politicians who post pics of their junk.

So you are an official salesman for the authorized dealer or a shill? No "anterior" motives. Trying to give a heads up to all pinsiders that you are a fraud. You misrepresent and lie. You are not honorable to deal with.

I am a buyer with no horse in this race. I don't shill or take advantage of folks. This is a warning to avoid Bene.

Owned a WOZ...didn't like it and sold it. Had the newest 7.5 boards with 0 issues while I had it. Less than a month after the new owner had it lots of stuff all went wrong. With all the issues JJP machines have I would never want to buy one without some sort of warranty! I don't know of one WOZ that has not had atleast something go wrong.

Maybe its me but I don't feel it is a good idea for a new company trying to make it and having an up and down battle to come to a public forum and wash there hands of their product as soon as the original owner sells it! I am sure they will bend you over for replacement parts too.

Damn I am glad I am not a sucker that gave this man any preorder money ever!

what did this WOZ pin sell for from Jersey Jack (originally)

what would people in the group think the same pin is worth on this collector secondary market WITHOUT A WARANTY?

I kind of oddly assume ANY pin I buy from ANYONE not an authorized dealer has no warrantee (not even if its NIB and only 5 days old. That is just me.

hummmm interesting discussion in this thread, will follow closely.

side note: interesting how quickly JJ chimed in with the "careful no warranty" ??? My first dumb quick assessment to that is ... uh oh, sounds like a NEED a warranty on that game? probably not but whatever

Played the game at York pinball show and its an awesome game.. kind of want one!

Forgot to mention good luck with the other two games for sale since the WOZLE is already sold!

HUO Transformers LE autobots $4500
HUO Safecracker 8k

No reason to lie. You are a less than honorable seller and the community should be aware. Name calling does not further Your defense. Buyer beware.

Geez, i was looking to see if this TF sold and what a can of worms here. I'm still very glad I passed on WOZ, cool looker but still not my cup of tea.

Anyways, hows the TF sale going ? Any offers ? I was looking for a combo at this price, but if Bene comes down a bit to help with shipping I might jump on this.

An autobots just sold in the last 21 days for 4k in VA.

Gotta love clowns looking for the lowest sale point of recent and posting it in someone's for sale post

It's early yet, but I think this thread is gonna win the 2014 Shitnado Trophy

Is it possible Jack is just doing what he has to do to support the business arrangement he has with distributors? They may be asking why do I have to make up-front investments in a relationship with JJP if the secondary market has everything I have...

Full disclosure I have a game on order through Jack - one of the last 100 or so machines.

I also appreciate secondary market sellers in this hobby, so no horse in this race in terms of picking one side over the other.

Actions speak louder than words. You trying to drag Stern down into this mess is bullshit. Stern has always taken care of me and just about everyone I know. They have for me personally sent me parts for games outside the 1 year warranty, they have sent me parts under warranty for games I didn't buy, and they continue to give me telephone tech support any any game I've ever called them about...

They even gave me tech support on Twister!

This thread makes my head hurt. I am not sure what upside Jack thought there would be posting in it.

Buying a used game can be dicey, buying a NIB one? Apparently dicey as well. Yeah, that's great for the market. Whoopee!

The only thing that I can figure is that Jack said this hoping to drive sales away from the secondary market and back to JJP. He's been seeing his product change hands in the low 7s, while he's trying to sell new ones at 9.

But on a product that is "sold out", this makes no sense.

The real fun will be to read Kanedas posts a year from now. That is if he ever buys one of his 20k games he wants.

I'll bet, if Bene posted NIB WOZLE at 8500.00 no one would have said shit about it !!! This is all about WOZ values tanking .

Just go away please.

Agree 100%

If JJP wasn't the slowest production line in history he would have had all his games out to their customers and probably wouldn't give a crap. Since he is still busy trying to get orders from years ago filled while also making additional LE's and standards he can see his sales dropping fast.

If I were JJP I would finish the games you have sold and move on to the next title. Hard to keep selling standards for a lot more than a basically new LE or in this case a NIB LE

Ok, I don't nomally post about this kind of stuff, but for some reason I feel the need today. I purchased my WOZ, METLE, AC/DC BIB, SMB, and Avengers through Bene. Bene provides a great service - I have never had a problem with games I purchased from him being covered by the factory warranty. The part that makes it works for me is he allows me to trade games to him that the distributer has no interest in or would allow a much lower tradein value. So this is a win win for everyone - the distributer moves a game, Bene acts as the middleman and takes my trade, I get a new game. Bene does not make that much money for providing the service, some of the games I have traded end up on ebay and he might make a couple hundred dollars for taking the risk. I would call Bene a "Game Broker" he puts a buyer and seller together and does not make much for providing the service.

There are always 3 sides to every story....

It's not about Woz values tanking, I'm thinking most pins are "tanking", and even though Jack has to protect his distributors there can't be such a disconnect to believe that anybody on the planet would pay $9,500, albeit shipped, for a Nib Wozle from Automated that most probably has been sitting in the warehouse for quite some time and has a "build date" of pre Oct. 2013. Not to say that issues are going to get fixed.

Any more than there can't be too many people on the planet willing to pay 9k for a Red Ruby? And, to take it another step further, I'm thinking the "population" of planet dwellers that are willing to shell out 8k are beginning to dwindle.

Stern has already managed to jack up the premium prices of Ac/dc Luci and ST to the 7k level. That's past the sweet spot and max for most people on the planet, one would think.

So wait, are you selling on behalf of this dealer? Like you're an employee? If I need support can I call this dealer up and get it? Or are you reselling?

Because if you're not actually acting on behalf of the dealer directly, how does it matter how you got the games? They all come from Stern, there's no Chinese factory making bootleg Star Treks that have 2 ply playfields and not RGB LEDs or something.

Then stop buying them Pretty simple explanation

After reading all of this bullshit you know what I think? I am happy buying my "crappy" B title Williams and Gottlieb games. I dont pay car prices for my GAMES and I enjoy them with little to ZERO headache.

People seem to forget pinball is suppose to be FUN, not some kind of hustle.

I think it basically boils down to someone selling multiple "NIB" WOZs who is not a certified JJP distributor.

To some unknowing pinsiders, it might seem that they are buying a genuine, brand new WOZ machine, from a certified distributor with all the service, support and backing that comes from buying through the proper channels.

If there are some unforeseen major problems with a NIB machine, the first thing the manufacturer is going to ask is where did you get it from?

I believe JJP wants everyone to know that if you are going to buy a New In Box JJP machine, that you should make sure it comes from a certified JJP distributor. I personally don't see a problem with this.

JJP is not saying that they are not supporting used machines within the warranty period.

Does anyone know what the hell JJP is ever really saying? I think that is one of their biggest problems... its not customer relations more like customer confusion!