The timing is hard to ignore.

I feel bad for the buyer, but it was his choice to support the inflated NIB price. I see both parties losing in this scenario. The buyer got burned, and the seller soils his reputation.

As for any dealers that did this, I think future customers will be looking elsewhere for purchases.

Agreed. Quoted this earlier from the OP

No, I'm not bullsh*tting. I have to thin the herd prior to moving

We can speculate on that or we can just ignore it and move on, like some are suggesting.

Yeah, but you can't just stop and wait when it comes time to sell a machine. This is the price that the market would bear at the time. Many were trying to buy it, and it didn't take that long to sell.

I, myself would prefer the original model in the original cabinet.

Yep the timing is suspicious alright, not cool to pull a fast one on someone like that, regardless if the person has the money to throw around or not, this is a kin to insider trading and we all know that's illegal....IMO, a partial refund is in order.

Best outcome all round would be to split the difference but it does take a mature approach on both sides to pull it off.

Oh my, no it isn't..... I sold my IM for $3900 about 18 months ago, that would be like me emailing the buyer and telling me he needs to Paypal me at least $500. Buying and selling pinball machines is NOTHING like the stock market.

I recently paid a lot of money for a Tron LE, and if they had announced a run of premiums the next day, I would not even think of asking for a refund. Because I wanted it, paid for it, and a deal is a deal.

But then you have SM, TRoN pro, and Lotr according to your collection posted. Better sell them and get yourself an LE version of each cuz they are being rerun soon.

I'm not going to comment on the deal or what I'd do, but I'd be willing to bet that this thread will be one of the top 10 threads for having the most posts AFTER an item for sale is marked SOLD.

I can't argue with you because I realize there is always going to be two camps regarding this...this is just my take on it, if I was the seller I'd be at least having the discussion with the buyer explaining that this was just a coincidence, if it wasn't then I'll stay in my camp about this, partial refund is a personal action, weather you do it or not it's up to the individual.

After just buying a pin from Bill I can assure you he is not Gary Stern.... Additionally I doubt he planned selling his house and moving 4 states away to be able to trick someone into buying his machine in advance of a re rerun....
Minding your own business seems to be the best advice so far.

If someone knows who they all are, why don't you call out and list everyone with potential insider information who profited mightily on this?

If you make a deal, you stick to the deal.

Simple as that.

Mixed feelings. Bottom line: putting the moral issues aside, as that can mean different things to different people, it is the buyer's responsibility to do his homework, not the sellers. It is the seller's responsibility to disclose any issues regarding the game itself, not knowledge that maybe more will be available down the line. That's crazy guys! How many times has Apple sold stuff the day before a new model is coming out, thus disappointing a lot of people? This is just part of the business world. If you are going to overpay for something, you should really do your homework first. I agree with others that technically speaking, new ones coming out should not change the buyers excitement that he is buying a game that he wants at the price he was okay with at the time he made that decision. But technicalities, feelings and reality are different things. Throw money in the mix and all bets are off, especially it its two grand. If the guy has not left a deposit, he can back out. That's just the way it is.

BUT....that all being said, here is the fair thing to do for both parties. The buyer and seller should simply split the difference. No one is real happy, meaning that is the fair deal, but both parties can feel good about the transaction. I know this point of view is not popular with a lot of people, perhaps, but you really have to simply take a business approach to situations like this. If no money has actually changed hands, and no agreement has been signed, neither party is technically bound by a verbal agreement and if I were the seller, I would be tripping all over myself right now to make the buyer happy. Thats just the way it goes in sales, right or wrong!

Sounds like cointaker sold their IM just a few weeks back and as a distributor that is a whole new level of badness.

NEW PINSIDE LAW… within three weeks of a remake or a rerun you're definitely guilty…

Big deal. It's apples/oranges.

I truly hope you're being sarcastic here since this philosophy certainly doesn't jive with what you posted in the PPS/IPB thread.

Amen.

Or face the wheel

if someone puts such a low valuation on their reputation then i know with whom i will not do business with, period.

I am not a fan of Tony's constant posting to get people riled up over something they shouldn't get riled up over, but if you can't see him playing everyone like a fiddle, I don't know what to say.

Tony is an avid defender of the free market, and this thread in particular, he is making the very point that a lot of he posters on here seem to miss.

Also if you look at Tony's posting history and previous marketplace threads/transactions, if you really think he is making any kind of living flipping machines, you are crazy. he is mostly dealing in high end/rare titles where the margin of profit is already slim to begin.

Can he be a jerk to make a point? way too much.... Inside most of his noise, there is usually a bit of truth there if you look for it.

God, I can't believe I just defended the resident noise-maker.... LOL

Wow, that's interesting. What did they sell it for? Was it on Pinside? Link to thread please.

If you think they did not know then you dont know as much as you claim to...

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-looking-for-a-im

100%.

I didn't buy this one, but I bought a different one last week that is not even being shipped until tomorrow. Am I pissed? Disappointed? Embarrassed? certainly, but not towards the seller. Am i asking for money back? nope. That's not the way transactions work. If I determine the seller knew beforehand, I might not deal with them again, but that is not the case with my transaction.

The only one you are fooling with this statement is yourself.

The best possible approach would be for everyone to move on with their lives and cease being insane.

This talk was in the thread early on. When I heard rumors of remakes I sold my AFM and MB. I dont know, the guy had the price police and rumor talk all over this thread and still committed to 7k. In my book its his deal for moving forward.

Doubtful.... I only buy pins based on my "market", not what others think a machine is worth. I recently bought an Xmen Pro at my market. If Amazon ran a clearance sale on Xmen Pros for 1k right now, there is ZERO chance of me being upset with the price.

It is very easy for me to place my own value on a machine, and be patient until I find one in that range. That is because I have always viewed these as toys, and nothing else. It is simply an added bonus that when I done playing with one of my toys, I am still able to get a few dollars for it, since most of the other toys I have I throw away when finished with.

That is what I truly believed & I put my money where my mouth was and bought a HUO for $6400 3weeks ago. So I'm not far behing the 7G NIB owner. But I didn't buy it to flip & it will be played right next to my AVLE until I am done in this hobby.
Would I like to have the $1300 difference back? Sure, who wouldn't? But that's not realistic & I bought a machine I wanted (in GREAT shape) for a price that was a bit above market value at the time. Oh well...
I'm truly happy for those who wanted an IM & can now get it. Heck, I hope they open the vault & do Spiderman again so I can get one of those.

There are some games that you told me that you passed on that many here would have been willing to pay twice as much for. That whirlwind/bop deal nearly gave me a coronary. lol.

maybe it's just our area, because seems many on here are willing to pay twice if nearly everything we are willing to pay here.

Ha ha, dip into your profits did it. I'm glad they are making the IM vault edition so regular hobbyist like me can get these at a fair price and not deal with you overpriced pin hoarders.

But at what price. If they reproduce those games and they have a premium price point ( say 5500 to 5800 )selling mine off would a wash. That and considering the mods that I have done more likely would be a loss dont you think.

Great post Butch!

I also ordered one. These were not held by pin hoarders but by people who actually enjoy the game. There were just not many to be had. High demand, low supply, higher price. Simple economics.

The rerun may not be as popular as the original anyway going forward after the hype dies down.

Whoa - thumbs down police. BR didn't you go apeshit on CT IM situation just a few weeks ago. Now thumbs down on Hilton? Hands off the keyboard my friend when drinking.

Killer pair of games. In time, they'll both be worth a pretty penny.

Got the game you wanted and paid what you were willing to pay. Nice take on the situation.

That whole IM sale from Cointaker seemed to be wrong on two levels. Aside from the question of whether Chris, as a Stern distributor, knew about the IM VE in advance, there is the issue of his listing the pin as "mint," without ever mentioning that it was routed in a theater for a year. That fact was revealed by another PinSider. You can read about it in the original "for sale" post:

Ya, something was smelly there from the beginning.

Surprised that a respected vendor would pull something like that. I wonder if there is more to the story.

Man, someone is sure jealous of what other pinsiders do with their money.

Annakin Skywalker here clearly knows the sale price of every pin transaction that goes down.

I was reading the tea leaves both Chris' and this NIB IM for sale got me to the idea, that the back channel communication was given out in advance. I have not proof, but my gut, plus before Tron was re-run I was looking around and someone told me that someone told him that the game would be re-run that was a few weeks before the official word, also a few days before Luci was announced someone told me that Stern was planning another edition. In my gut I am sure they both knew.

Its essentially insider trading, though.
I think that's why it feels so dirty to me.

I wish I could know potentially a few months in advance that my collectibles/investments were going to depreciate substantially.

Just another negative in regards to remakes and re-runs... ultimately you as a buyer have to know that anything is fair game to be remade or rerun (except BBB) and take your medicine.

Plus no one knows for sure who knew what here... move along now.

You didn't notice all the MM's come up for sale right before the announcement last year?

Ok, here you go: in the next few months your pinball machines are going to decrease in value. Then they will decrease further. Over time, the depreciation could be substantial, but in the moment, it's just the basic cost of ownership.