So, your friend might sell a game and he won't give anyone the price? Sounds like he's testing the waters to see if he can get crazy money for it.

Wear at the neutral zone, rusty ramp flaps, insert crazing... Good luck getting $7,000+

Also, green PCB's - It's a SAMPLE, not a Prototype.

Clearly not a prototype, green lamp boards, no huge neutral zone hole. Might be a sample.

Got insert edge wear, finish on the shooter is chipping, and ramp flaps are rusty. Is it really HUO?

Is it in NH, or somewhere else?

Judging by the condition of the game, there is very little if anything that makes it worth more than the ~4K that they go for. I sold a nicer game for $3,900 two months ago and it had cointaker LEDs, light up flipper buttons, pinbits shaker, mirror blades, outlane extenders etc...

Honestly my routed STTNG looks to be in better shape. Must have been in a pretty rough household to have that much wear on the shooter handle! Lockdown receiver is filthy as well. Usually in home use those stay a lot cleaner.

Looks like it might have been a converted re-import based on the wires (and wirenuts) near the transformer.

He also told you it was a prototype and that wasn't accurate, what makes you think he was right about the HUO part?

The wires and wire nuts are likely from someone removing the circuitry for a DBA.

I don't believe HUO for one minute. The lockdown receiver is also in typical route game shape.

Well I think it looks pretty clean. Some wear on the shooter handle is to be expected if it gets played. Bump

Maybe the owner meant HUO since he got it........... in 2012.

Edit -

My apologies, that was harsh, please continue.

I wouldn't call the thread shit on, there's some good information. There's a lot of confusion about prototype vs sample vs early production vs early production reimports. Seems to me like this one is a very nice early production made for export, so it has some sample features (like some TZs with the green lock insert but no third magnet hole).

That being said, I want it, AND I can't afford it

Is there any differences in a Sample Sttng and a production?

not a huo but still a nice game. I would love to have one this nice.

Didn't these originally come with black legs and black leg bolts?

No offense, but there's absolutely no way you know it's not HUO...

That is what flyer shows.

No shitting here. Prototype is a very particular word that shouldn't be thrown about. Saying a game is HOU is one thing; saying its a prototype is completely different. I remember one guy saying his game was a prototype because it had some prototype mods in it from a customizer; it wasn't.

Here's a new HUO term that just hit my mind,
Human Use Only!

I'm getting a well routed STNG very soon.
To me it's far more interesting than most Stern LEs these days,
it's really a top top shelf game.

I too would like this defined.....

GLWS OP.

ST:TNG is an awesome Top 10 (+/-) Pin in my opinion.
Here's a pic of mine that I grabbed up this summer.
Cheers,
~Steveo

STTNG.jpg

The amount of wear / paint chipped off on the gun handle and the corrosion on the lockdown bar mechanism are very very far from typical HUO condition. IMO there is no way this particular game is HUO, unless it was stored in the garage or a shed. The previous seller may have lied to the current owner and claimed HUO to get a higher price - I've seen that a lot - but the condition is easy to see.

Your right, there is no way for me to know that for sure. However playfield wear like this does not occur on HUO pins nor does wire nuts that someone mentioned for the bill acceptor occur. The rusty flaps and shooter handle I could see occurring in a HUO situation, however the playfield I don't see happening.

Is the hole next to the start button extra

Nice pin - it has its issues. GLWTS

Sure I can see your point. I think part of the issue with the term HUO is people relate it to condition, which it's not, it's relative to the history of the pin, nothing more.

This is precisely why if I am looking for a pin in top condition I ask if it's "CQ", it comes down to condition. Which of course is subjective and a whole different discussion.

A HUO pin can wear the same as a routed pin if it's played often and hard. Yes it's unlikely but wear is wear.

Agree

Doesn't look like a hole, just a smudge.

looks like a filled hole to me

me too - otherwise that is some smudge

the quarter slot on the left has the quarter insert worn out from coin return presses??

I am looking for a good pin. I have been around buying/selling on ebay and various audio forums for a long time. I learned to avoid issue jumpers and sellers being vague or playing dumb. Also, not getting into the best offer BS.

That game has seen a hard life. It is worth a lot less than your friend expects. It may be an early production game - those did have the FL-17636 flipper coils - but it's unlikely to be a sample. The serial number would help answer that question.

Im looking for a sttng and I wouldn't pay any extra for a sample game and the price on these have been around 3500 -4000 lately in great condition with leds and other mods and they are taking a while to sell so tell your friend to expect around that and it will take the right buyer

I think you are well off on price here - try $4K and up

There were 2 or 3 near me on here that were in awesome condition that sat for weeks ill link them and let you decide

Heres a few there are many more for under 4 that took a while to sell believe me ive been on the hunt but need a trade deal for it to work or I would have bought one of these or the other 5 that were super nice for under 4 k

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-sttng-philly-suburbs-3950-obo
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-star-trek-the-next-generation-4000
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-fs-stng

I guess they just go for more around here - and sell quick too.

Can someone who knows for sure please chime in and define Proto vs. Sample.

I've been a bit confused about those terms lately, particularly as it pertains to playfields (as I see the descriptions on the ones PPS has been selling.) Why wouldn't any playfield be drilled and/or dimpled?

I know proto playfields could have inserts or holes for features that were nixed in production, but could a sample playfield have them too?

Appreciate the insight.

Protos are usually extremely limited in number - under 10, sometimes as little as 5 machines. They're made with red PCBs, and are kept in the company usually in the developers, designer, programmers offices to work on.

Samples are the first run of the games from the factory - between 100 and 300 made. They were usually sent out to high-sales distributors to get out to locations. These locations then had to provide feedback to the distributor on how the game performed, so the developers/designers could make changes.

Usually by the time the samples are out, large changes (wiring changes, such as adding lamps or switches) aren't often done. However, switches can be removed often.

Examples - the far right loop switches in WCS94 were removed mid-sample run. The door flashers in TZ.

Proto to sample changes would be the red lamp insert colors in TZ (Camera & Dead End), the "Ultra-Ball" changing to "Ultra-Goalie" in WCS94.

Sometimes bigger changes are needed during sample runs though, like having to add 'SPIN' to the inserts on the spinner on CV.

Thank you very much Coyote.

So for the most part will sample playfields (the bare playfield excluding mechs on it) be an easy swap candidate for a production machine? I understand why repos may have issues, but why would Proto/Sample/Production playfields ever not be drilled and dimpled?

Thanks again.

It could happen, for any number of reasons. The prototype WCS94 playfield I just picked up isn't dimpled, nor ever installed into a game. (A situation that makes sence is that an artist making changes to a playfield wouldn't need the whole game, so he just had the field hanging for reference. Or, the company ordered an extra field "in case"..)

Probably a sample/early run game. Some features similar to the one I am just finishing a restore on. See my thread https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-tng-next-chapter

Domed cannons were on the early games although of course many newer games have been changed to domed cannons.
I see a few other differences from later production games. The chromed metal wire form on the front of the apron does not go all the way to the left (It does on most games) There should be a piece of clear plastic all the way to the left on your game.
On the bottom of the playfield the board attached in a vertical fashion in front of the 2 VUKs (the opto board) is in a different position from standard production games. Some of the wiring also follows different paths.

bottom wiring 3.jpg

The gray rubber switch covers were also omitted on later games.

Stuart