$5,900 is not happening for a HUO AC/DC premium unless Michigan is a better market then the DC/Metro area as there was just an AC/DC pin that was HUO and loaded with extras that was advertised on Pinside and sold yesterday for $5,500....so how is this one worth $5,900 ??? That one must have had $500 in extras at least AND WAS HUO AS WELL...."APPLES TO APPLES".

This pin might be worth about $5,500 based on current market activities but it never hurts to dream (and I own a perfect AC/DC with a shaker and pinblades and I doubt I could get $5,500 but maybe Michigan is low on supplies of AC/DC pins since price is about supply/demand)......plus, having some Michigan pinsiders endorse it is probably worth at least $400 so at $5,900 that probably makes this a bargain (almost forgot the endorsements which are better then pictures of a pin that you are asking top dollar for !!!).

GLWS....you are going to need it to get anywhere close to $5,900....

Then he should have asked $10K and put OBO......why not really shoot for the stars....LOL !!!! So in the future as long as you put OBO you can ask anything.....I will remember that so I can avoid the "price patrol". In the future, everyone just needs to put OBO and nobody will ever be able to comment on any prices....lets also put that in the official "rules and regulations"....no price comments as long as someone puts OBO in their for sales thread regardless of what they are asking.

Thanks for the clarification....my sincerest apologies. Time to call it a night. GLWS !!!

Regardless, I paid $6K for 3 NIB AC/DC premiums (kept one and used the other two to trade). That was in March, 2013 so my point was there is a reason the HUO AC/DC premium in my area sold for $5,500 and it was loaded with extras. Due to LUCI and the general state of pinball deflation that has occurred since early last year to expect to get a NIB price is ridiculous....my $6K price included shipping to my door.

Why I waste my time. I say it sells for $5,500 or less was my point. However, it may sell for $5,900 as people living in the mid west are a lot smarter then us in the Washington/DC area so they will probably pay $5,900 as they "must know something we don't about the value of an AC/DC classic".

Funny thing is I haven't been on for awhile and things never change. Centerflank is still living his life on pinside day in and day out. Truly, I feel sorry for him. Guess on his gravestone they can put "KING OF PINSIDE" because he must spend half his life on here as when I left months ago he was leading in posts and when I come back he is leading in posts.....I feel sorry for him while I am doing things day in and day out he is still living his life on pinside. That is just TOO COOL for me.....

So Centerflank you may not want to be a HOP but I assure you I would never want your life. Lets see do I have to get up for work tomorrow....No....How about Monday....No....that's right I don't have to work and I still don't post like you do.

I need to call it a night. Lets see what this pin sells for......I say $5,200 !!!! That is about right with no pictures and no additions (not even a shaker motor and he wants $5,900....that's right or best offer).

Has it sold yet. Again, personal attacks missed the point as always. Why don't all of Pen's Michigan friends step up and buy this pin for close to the asking price.

My main point was that a much better AC/DC premium in my area that was LOADED had an asking price of $5,500. He may have taken less...who knows but it had to be marked down to $5,500 to move it. He also sells a decent amount of pins and I am sure just didn't give away $500 and priced it at a price that he felt he needed to in order to move it (he is not a "rookie" and knows how to price pins based on his recent posts). Just add up all the extras his AC/DC premium has and this one has NONE......he basically wants $100 less then one I bought in March, 2013 for $6K.

I thought it was agreed upon pinside that if posters did not want PRICE COMMENTS to just put it up In MARKETPLACE. So my comments which are 500% valid were attacked by the whole state of Michigan....honestly, kinda worries me a little about the "guys up there" as they seemed to get a little too upset for their "friend" over my price comment. I was even accused of "going under the table" to get my AC/DC's at $6K....best I not say what I think is happening among the "guys" up there in the Mid West. Maybe you guys need to "chill out" a little. If you can't take the heat then post in MARKETPLACE......you guys are acting like a bunch of "babies" when my point was 500% VALID....the asking price is HIGH for this pin. Maybe Detroit Pinball should step up and buy it for $5,900 since it is such a good value......anyone paying more then $5,500 is overpaying and I stand by that comment and most people will agree with me.......Based on the one that just sold you can make the argument this one is worth less then $5K (which it isn't as that was sold as a good price so I still say $5.2-$5.3 is a fair price for a nice HUO AC/DC premium with NO EXTRAS......15% below average NIB price is about right especially with the new LUCI which is the game most people want).

GLWS......again, all I did was post a comment.....and the good ole Michigan boys had to come in and "defend there friend".....and I am accused of going under the table to get a good price on my pins.....probably when Pen was young and he was picked on his "little friends" came to his rescue to fight his fights.....so sad.

Another Michigan boy comes out of the woodwork. They are like roaches......too funny. Yes, there is a pin for sale and it probably will be for awhile is my point. Why not put $5,500 OBO....that might make people more comfortable making you an offer since apparently he doesn't even feel it should sell for $5,900 so why even ask for it was my point. Well, it is located in Michigan so who knows the $5,900 OBO might yield him over $6K as they there best offer might be higher. Honestly, at this point nothing would surprise me as it is the mid-west.

Is it sold yet ????? Maybe this weekend...... It is a great pin that is ranked high. Easy pin to sell once it is priced correctly. Not like he is trying to sell a AVLE but even EABUNDY sold his AVLE quicker then this but he understands pricing pins to sell. That guy can move a pin and Herbertsharp is another one that knows what it takes to sell a pin. By now, they both would have moved this down $400 to get some interest. As for OBO that is always assumed unless the guy posting uses a KEY WORD.....FIRM. Even then I am sure people send there best offer so putting OBO really does little.....lower the price and the PM's will start to fly.....second thought why not just raise it maybe someone in Michigan will start to panic that prices are going up !!! That strategy just might work out in Michigan. Another good strategy.....rather then have your little Michigan friends fighting your battles maybe you they should have just all posted some key phrases.....GREAT PRICE, THIS WILL NOT LAST LONG, etc......if they all we have posted that some "newbie" may have jumped on this you never know !!!

I am done for the day......had my fun reading all the posts you guys posted since last night. Have fun boys. HOP is going to grab a shave and shower and take the wife out tonight. While you guys post on pinside.....sure your wives are thrilled about the time you guys all spend on here. As my Italian grandma always told me "if you don't farm the land someone else will".....LOL !!!! Someone is farming that land and something tells me it isn't you guys !!! LOL !!! You boys will someday learn that there are more important things then pinside and living on here.....I feel bad for your wives and kids as pinball is a hobby and shouldn't consume your life.

The best indicator is did the pin sell in a timely fashion (week or so if it sells in a day it is priced TOO LOW in my opinion)........or is it sitting and sitting (more then 2-3 weeks) and what has other similar games sold for over the past weeks or month....also, what are others "asking for their games". Figuring out the correct price for current titles is not very difficult as the condition in a lot of cases are similar (most AC/DC premiums for instance that are HUO are in very good shape as they haven't been out that long....sure there are some exceptions but most are "still really nice" so it all boils down to mods and extras and adding or subtracting based on current sales.

In my opinion, I basic HUO AC/DC premium is worth approximately $5,300...one with shaker maybe $5,500 (that is what I would ask for mine if I ever sold it as I feel that is a "fair price"......price it at that price and it moves.....hate the messenger but I don't make the market. The new norm should be a 10-15% loss on a NIB after it is opened and played awhile (not including the shipping cost of $300ish). Buying HUO is the way to go and anyone selling a NIB should understand the losses will be greater then if you buy HUO.....

Seems pretty simple to me.....not "rocket science" and has nothing to do with "firesales" (you don't use that as a "proxy" if so you could make the case this AC/DC premium should sell for $4,700-$4,800 if you base it off the one that sold last week with all the extras that sold for $5,500 but it was "firesaled"......and it was loaded with extras including a shaker which runs $200 and in nice shape BUT SO IS THIS ONE !!! THIS IS A REALLY NICE PIN but in my opinion still priced a little high but getting closer and with OBO someone should make a stab at it and see what the OP says !!!!

Again, you could buy these all day long for $6,300 delivered (including shipping cost $300-$400 to your door...mine only cost me $6K which also included shipping cost). So the "math wiz" backs out shipping to get the "true price of the NIB pin".....you can't count shipping as that really isn't the cost of the pin (last I checked you aren't going to drive the pin to someones house they are coming to yours to pick it up).

So here is the calculation (being generous and using $6,300 even though I know others like myself who got it shipped to their door for less then $6,300 but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.....why I don't know):

So $6,300-$300= $6,000 less 10% is $5,400.....less 15% is $5,100. So again everyone gets "bent out of shape" taking a 10-15 percent hit off a NIB.....this hobby amazes me as nobody can live with a 10-15 percent hit after playing a NIB game for a year and then selling it. People drive 4-6 hours round trip to save the shipping costs so you have to subtract them off the price before you discount the true price of the pin......it isn't "rocket science"....who knows maybe it is for some.

This is exactly what goes on at pinside. Just so everyone knows. Stating my opinion on that NIBs should sell for 10-15% less after a period of time is my opinion. Then the "personal attacks start" and they want to ban me. I only commented last night because of Pen's comment where he addressed "the math wiz of the bunch" which was obviously me. So the response I gave just clarified the calculation and how I arrive at what I feel HUO's should sell for in relation to NIB. I stand by my opinion....and it is an opinion that I assure everyone is "gaining traction" quickly.

Also, Robin and moderators are more then welcome to look into the SCRAPPY DOO. If I am using any current alias I am happy to have Robin permantely ban me. The Junior pinball as I explained to Robin was my son's account (it had a total of 10 posts or less so how did I even use that account....yes, one night I made a post with it as a JOKE......but it has been closed and was never used actively.....period. It was a JOKE the night I used it). To accuse me of having multiple alias's is fine. However, I will make ROOMY and PEN a deal. Lets have Robin research it (he can) and if I currently have any multiple alias's I am more then happy to be banned forever. However, if ROOMY's allegations are incorrect since Pen believes it too they can get BANNED FOREVER.

Come on ROOMY AND PEN lets just do this. I am fine with it.....why don't you back up what you are saying rather then spreading false accusations.....ROOMY should be banned permantly just for that personal attack in my opinion.....let me make a personal attack on him or Pen and I assure you they will call their "moderator friends" and I would get banned. Like I just posted in another post "this is going on" and now as evidenced by this post it just confirms mine and other pinsiders suspicions that these guys go to their moderator friends trying to get people banned when they don't agree with their opinions. I get PM's from pinsiders who thank me for not being "bullied" by people like ROOMY and PEN.....just got one yesterday and another today......

Pin prices are falling boys....this hobby will start to cost you money like a hobby does. Get used to it. Market dictates price and like I have stated the 2014 pinball guide will the the "high water mark for prices" for a long time.....if you can't afford to play then get out of the hobby as others are doing by selling their entire collections (they see the writing and know they can't afford to lose the equity in their collection.....this will also help put downward pressure on prices and stop the appreciation that used to be the norm......that is my opinion and we will not know until the 2015 price guide.....if I am wrong I will admit it but if I am right I will still hear that I have no clue what I am talking about (so let the 2015 pinball price guide decide and that will not be published for awhile unfortunately).

Pen....I got a ban vote for my retaliation post against the Michigan bunch.....which I have no problem with....just let the moderators call it both ways.....did the guys who called my wife a WHORE and me a PRIC* get a ban vote.......so lets just call the game fair.

Is ROOMY going to get a ban vote for his allegations which are false........do you get ban votes when you attack personally.....that is my point.

I did nothing wrong in your post.....bottomline you guys "never let it go" as evidenced by your "math wiz" comment.....you asked for a response so deal with it.

Your friends are not always the "majority" many on here don't post (they just read) and you would be shocked how many see my "point of view"......more then you would believe.

HOP can not make the market and if this was priced at $5K and HOP said it was overpriced (which I think $5K is too low but if I did post it was overpriced it would still sell in hours.....my point is I am just trying to explain to people the best way to stop pinball speculation is to pay the "right price" so people don't just pre-order every new pin hoping it is the next TRON LE and BIBLE.....that is good for the hobby. Period.....if any of you think that TRON LE and BIBLE wasn't what caused so much of this you have your eyes closed. So when people have NIB HULK LE's for sale for $6,250 and they "speculated" I truly feel sorry for the guy who buys it thinking he got a good deal and then he opens the box and doesn't like it and finds it is only worth $5,500 or less a month later......the only way to stop the speculation if for people to have to think twice about buying a NIB and understanding that they will probably lose $1K if they sell it shortly down the road.......trust me, once that becomes the "new norm" the speculation will stop and that is truly what I would love to happen and it is finally happening !!!

So just keep attacking me personally.....my views aren't going away and they are slowly gaining traction. ALSO, I own an AC/DC premium so what would be my AGENDA in driving the prices down.......think about it......I own one as well as 10 pins.....I just want to educate people so they don't get burned and A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE UNDERSTANDING MY INTENTIONS and APPRECIATE THEM !!!! So I will continue I feel it is good for the hobby and if you can't afford to play then you need to get out......pinball is going to cost you some money it is a hobby !!! Hobbies cost money and they should we have fun doing them.....FUN ISN'T CHEAP (name of my friends 50 foot boot and trust me that is a real expensive hobby !!! I know firsthand). Pinball is cheap.....

Your analysis is flawed.......you can't look at the dollar loss it is percentage loss that stays the same. Indirectly you just made my point. Also, when prices are rising the losses will be less (rising tide lifts all boats).....this is the first time in many years prices are falling......so the percentage losses will be more now then years ago. You can't look at the $ loss but you need to look at the percentage loss.....prices are higher so the losses will be higher even if the percentage loss stays the same. A $300 loss on a $3,000 pin is the same as a $600 loss on a $6,000 pin (10%) so your argument that this is a better deal is flawed badly (and you have to take into account overall prices are dropping on pins in general which means the losses today should be worse then when prices were rising).

Also, when you pick up a pin what cost do you assign (assuming you drive 4 hours round trip). I know most people if they buy a pin for $6,000 and drive a couple of hours to pick it up when they sell it use the $6,000 as their "cost" so if they sell it for $5,400 they lose $600 in their mind.....so why should shipping ever be included....so in my mind the cost of an AC/DC premium is $6,000 as the seller paid $300 for the convenience to not have to drive to pick it up (I believe certain distributors give you the option of picking it up and you can save the shipping if you are close enough to where they are produced)

In my opinion, you made my argument rather then hurt it.......so thanks....

So PEN just so I understand price comments are never allowed on For Sale threads.....I just want to clarify because I am almost certain most pinsiders agreed this was fine and if the poster didn't want comments to just post it in marketplace (which allow no comments).

I can pull up so many sales threads where this has been discussed......I am 500% fine but that is always your out "he is a troll" if it is a comment you don't agree with. So I guess to never be considered a "troll" you just always have to go "with the grain" that really makes for a great forum where different views can be exchanged. I have said nothing MEAN in this thread. The fact I don't agree with your original asking price did not make me a Troll nor does my overall opinion on pinball prices in general. Would I be a troll if I believed AC/DC's should all sell for $7K or I felt strongly that pinball prices should appreciate 10% every year....of course not.....however, when that happens that also has as much of a negative effect on the hobby (just will effect the "newbies" so that is fine and not effect people with huge collections so that is accepted).

I can promise you that I am personally attacked way more then I attack anyone as opinions aren't attacking. The fact your pin never sold for near the asking price tells me my opinion on your price was correct......trust me, if you sold it for your asking price you would have let me know how wrong I was....NO DOUBT IN MY MIND....so just admit I was right but you can't......patience for buyers is the key right now......AC/DC premiums aren't going to go up in price through the summer.....I can assure you of that......so what is the risk of someone waiting a little longer as the price pressure on this title will only get worse "in my opinion".

Your talent just continues to impress and amaze......maybe you have missed your calling. There is money to be made in writing poetry......might be a good way to offset the falling prices on your pinball machines

Captain....again, the only difference is the shipping cost. I say unless you are driving to the guys house that shipping should be taken out before you calculate the decline (10-15 percent). Again, the market will ultimately dictate. However, with the market declining in general I would say losses on todays NIB should be higher then the older NIB's when prices were going up 10% or so a year......again, my opinion. However, it is what I am seeing and we can disagree on a lot of things but I was actively involved (more then most) in buying (17 pins) and selling (7 pins) over the last 10 months so I feel I at least have "an idea" of what different titles are selling for since I have been on both ends numerous times.

I don't feel Pen's price at $5,600 is that high either......I did at $5,900....I would say a deal is $5,300.....people are wanting deals do to the decline in price as they know patience with the summer coming will get them lower prices. I feel that it is very possible that AC/DC premium could hit the low $5's with regularity this summer......so I just think people are smart enough to see that again in my opinion......the best though is AVLE's because people paid a fortune they think they are worth more then they are......there is no doubt that title will be a $5K title this summer all day long (just look at X-MEN) and that is one reason they are not moving......if you could plot a graph of X-MEN and AVLE over time since release it would be very similar and X-MEN LE is the better title......

Finally, I know a lot more about pricing then people give me credit for.....I was a total newbie....bought 16 pins at the peak of the market and sold 7 of the 16......you know what I lost......nothing......in fact $2K to the plus side (and I never planned on selling any of them but the wife and me agreed that I was "out of control buying" and we agreed 10 was a good number to keep my collection at....and I had to agree as I just have so many other hobbies I don't need 20 pins).....my point is for the patient buyer (and I am more patient then it appears) you can mitigate losses by being smart. Buying an AC/DC premium for $5,900 with no extras doesn't make any sense so I stated my opinion and still believe with no options it is a sub $5,500 game......I wouldn't pay more then $5,300.....I would have jumped on HWAYANGA's for $5,500 if I didn't have one.....but that is how I buy......he did firesale it but you will see more of this rather then less with a lot of titles this summer.

Going forward I expect my own collection of 10 pins to decline $5K-$10K over the next few years....if I am wrong....Great but that is my expectation and for this hobby to only cost me $2k or so a year that is very cheap to have 10 games I can play whenever I want at my disposal.....

Roomy you really have some issues.......not saying I don't but you aren't "playing with a full deck either" and are truly "losing it"....all I can do is "shake my head" after reading your posts.....Super Bowl starts soon thank god.....just watched my caps win 6-5 in overtime so it has been a good day......plus your entertaining truly makes me laugh...it really does.

Keep writing your poems/songs. If you can sing we may need to talk as I see a golden opportunity....I have seen worse material become hits so who knows this could end up "being big" and take you right to the top of the charts. Maybe next stop American Idol or The Voice.......stranger things have happened.

Exactly.......keeps it right at the top so anyone looking for an AC/DC premium and willing to pay $5,600 can easily find one. Funny thing is if it was priced at $5,200 or less (bargain price) I promise this thing could be posted anywhere and people would find it !!! What nobody understands is people shopping for this pin do research and trust me they just need to find one motivated seller (i.e. someone that needs the money quickly to fund a pin or some unexpected expense) and they know they can get it for low $5's so they just keep looking and throwing out offers. I am sure Pen has had offers.....no doubt in my mind....so he knows what level the majority of the buyers are at and it is lower then $5,500 is my "gut feeling" which I feel is about right. Not like this post hasn't been seen by everyone by now !!!! I truly hope EABUNDY puts one up for sale soon......he is "in tune" with what pins will sell for (he moves them in and moves them out).....to me that will be a great indicator of what it takes to move an AC/DC premium.....he already showed me what he felt it takes to move a really nice AVLE which was $5K (assuming he even got his asking price....someone may have offered him $4,800 and he took it we will never know).

Again, these are opinions but as the days and weeks go by they are becoming stronger opinions based on what I continue to see. I just passed on a TSPP for $3,900 with mods (it was routed)......I offered a trade and cash on my BSD (to keep me at 10 pins) and he wanted all cash and $3,900 doesn't motivate me for a routed TSPP....$3,500 and a 3 hour round trip drive does and we will see what happens....he might get back with me or he might not there is always another deal to be had with patience......by the summer that offer might not look that bad and who knows he may give up selling it and try again and get back to me at a later date. Again, the key is putting together a list of pins you want to own (keep it a long list which I can because there are so many I want to own) and always buy "the best pin on the board value wise".....you do that you will not get hurt badly even as prices drop. Next recession/depression I will be on a buying spree and get all my "grail pins" (MB, AFM and CV to name a few).......the key is to always be "locked and loaded" and "ready to roll" when opportunity presents you "pounce".....and pins is just a hobby.....I do this with things that matter....stocks and R/E and it is just using that same concept with anything you buy (buy low and sell high.....the hard part is knowing when something is cheap and when it is expensive and right now PINS ARE EXPENSIVE......better buying opportunities will arise the risk of a "melt up" in my opinion is close to 0%....risk is to the downside so why rush any purchases).

So "keep shooting the messenger".......this is already playing out like I said many months ago....wait until the summer !!! Remember frame the 2014 pinball pricing guide it will be the top for many years to come on most titles......

I would just contact him as he is asking $5,600 or best offer and if you truly feel it is a BARGAIN at $5,200 I am sure the two of you can make it happen....I know when I am only $400 apart and someone says "best offer" I make the deal happen 90% of the time. So put your money where your mouth is.....and lets get this pin sold !!! You guys can't be that far away if you TRULY feel $5,200 is a BARGAIN (which I feel that is a good price as well but not a "red light" special) and he is at $5,600 or best offer.....I don't see the word FIRM in his post so take a shot and back up your statement.....can't believe at $5,300 or $5,400 you don't feel similar so I am sure he will work with you !!!!

Well Captain lets step up to the plate.......

As they always say "talk is cheap" and you see way too much of that on here and "money talks and BS walks".....if everyone feels that I am wrong why hasn't someone "stepped to the plate" I would be shocked if for $100 or $200 less he doesn't sell it so why doesn't someone make an offer close to the price and get the deal done. Rather, then just saying the game is worth what he is asking......that is my confusion with this thread and why I can't understand where my logic is flawed as nobody is "stepping up to the plate" and making a deal happen for close to his current asking price.....so everyone can disagree all they want but the "facts are the facts"...period. Maybe we can get a few "wish I was closer" posts tonight and tomorrow as well....LOL !!!!

Time to go down and watch the game as I can smell the food and need a couple of beers !!! GO SEAHAWKS.....should be a great game.

Haven't you got the memo......"different rules for different people" I got mine in the mail last week. It isn't what you say it is "who you are".....especially when it comes to ban votes.....however, my hope and belief is "things will change sooner rather then later" as a lot of people are seeing if for what it is.

I got to go and watch the game......but Eggbert you and others as well as myself see this for what it has become. Personally, I don't even need to advertise on pinside I just throw them up on CL when I want to sell and price them right and they sell.....pricing is what sells a game not having your friends on pinside trying to convince potential buyers you are a "great guy" and "your prices are great" ....YADA , YADA, YADA.....if I wanted to sell my AC/DC premium it would be gone in days it would be listed at $5,500 with shaker and pinblades and TNT mode (about $400 in extras and it would be gone......I would probably settle on $5,400 and have the guy pick it up.....but again it is perfect and has a shaker and other extras).

I am done got to get ready....kick-off is in 30 minutes !!!!