Frank is blocked from RGP. It's very nice there now. Check it out.
Huge difference.
And I understand might not be technicaly blocked but he is blocked on google.

This is exactly what goes on at pinside. Just so everyone knows. Stating my opinion on that NIBs should sell for 10-15% less after a period of time is my opinion. Then the "personal attacks start" and they want to ban me. I only commented last night because of Pen's comment where he addressed "the math wiz of the bunch" which was obviously me. So the response I gave just clarified the calculation and how I arrive at what I feel HUO's should sell for in relation to NIB. I stand by my opinion....and it is an opinion that I assure everyone is "gaining traction" quickly.

Also, Robin and moderators are more then welcome to look into the SCRAPPY DOO. If I am using any current alias I am happy to have Robin permantely ban me. The Junior pinball as I explained to Robin was my son's account (it had a total of 10 posts or less so how did I even use that account....yes, one night I made a post with it as a JOKE......but it has been closed and was never used actively.....period. It was a JOKE the night I used it). To accuse me of having multiple alias's is fine. However, I will make ROOMY and PEN a deal. Lets have Robin research it (he can) and if I currently have any multiple alias's I am more then happy to be banned forever. However, if ROOMY's allegations are incorrect since Pen believes it too they can get BANNED FOREVER.

Come on ROOMY AND PEN lets just do this. I am fine with it.....why don't you back up what you are saying rather then spreading false accusations.....ROOMY should be banned permantly just for that personal attack in my opinion.....let me make a personal attack on him or Pen and I assure you they will call their "moderator friends" and I would get banned. Like I just posted in another post "this is going on" and now as evidenced by this post it just confirms mine and other pinsiders suspicions that these guys go to their moderator friends trying to get people banned when they don't agree with their opinions. I get PM's from pinsiders who thank me for not being "bullied" by people like ROOMY and PEN.....just got one yesterday and another today......

Pin prices are falling boys....this hobby will start to cost you money like a hobby does. Get used to it. Market dictates price and like I have stated the 2014 pinball guide will the the "high water mark for prices" for a long time.....if you can't afford to play then get out of the hobby as others are doing by selling their entire collections (they see the writing and know they can't afford to lose the equity in their collection.....this will also help put downward pressure on prices and stop the appreciation that used to be the norm......that is my opinion and we will not know until the 2015 price guide.....if I am wrong I will admit it but if I am right I will still hear that I have no clue what I am talking about (so let the 2015 pinball price guide decide and that will not be published for awhile unfortunately).

I zoned out after the first sentence.

The pin hobby was the only hobby I know of, that had a few good years where people expected to get all their money back on used equipment.

I blame TRON LE for starting that trend.

But, as people's basements get filled, and other cool titles arrive on the scene, I assume that the pin market will function more like any other (with the occasional exception).

Everyone that has been around and knows better, expects to take a loss on a NIB game. Even at that. This is a hell of a deal.

Even back in the day, you would buy a NIB for $3400- 3500, and you would take a loss. Usually the standard resell price was $3100. So you would take a $300-400 loss. Every time you bought NIB. So under even those standards, this is even a better deal, due to the fact that it's probably more like a $400-700 loss for him, depending on who he bought it from. Great deal for someone.

I think AC/DC's taking a hit right now due to lots of people wanting Luci edition. Game is still to new to tell if it's going to hold it's value for the long haul. Once it hits the 5 year mark, then we will know.

I'm not saying your price is unreasonable at all.

Had Luci not come out, I'd bet not only would it already been sold, but you would have got more money for it to boot.

Pen....I got a ban vote for my retaliation post against the Michigan bunch.....which I have no problem with....just let the moderators call it both ways.....did the guys who called my wife a WHORE and me a PRIC* get a ban vote.......so lets just call the game fair.

Is ROOMY going to get a ban vote for his allegations which are false........do you get ban votes when you attack personally.....that is my point.

I did nothing wrong in your post.....bottomline you guys "never let it go" as evidenced by your "math wiz" comment.....you asked for a response so deal with it.

Your friends are not always the "majority" many on here don't post (they just read) and you would be shocked how many see my "point of view"......more then you would believe.

HOP can not make the market and if this was priced at $5K and HOP said it was overpriced (which I think $5K is too low but if I did post it was overpriced it would still sell in hours.....my point is I am just trying to explain to people the best way to stop pinball speculation is to pay the "right price" so people don't just pre-order every new pin hoping it is the next TRON LE and BIBLE.....that is good for the hobby. Period.....if any of you think that TRON LE and BIBLE wasn't what caused so much of this you have your eyes closed. So when people have NIB HULK LE's for sale for $6,250 and they "speculated" I truly feel sorry for the guy who buys it thinking he got a good deal and then he opens the box and doesn't like it and finds it is only worth $5,500 or less a month later......the only way to stop the speculation if for people to have to think twice about buying a NIB and understanding that they will probably lose $1K if they sell it shortly down the road.......trust me, once that becomes the "new norm" the speculation will stop and that is truly what I would love to happen and it is finally happening !!!

So just keep attacking me personally.....my views aren't going away and they are slowly gaining traction. ALSO, I own an AC/DC premium so what would be my AGENDA in driving the prices down.......think about it......I own one as well as 10 pins.....I just want to educate people so they don't get burned and A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE UNDERSTANDING MY INTENTIONS and APPRECIATE THEM !!!! So I will continue I feel it is good for the hobby and if you can't afford to play then you need to get out......pinball is going to cost you some money it is a hobby !!! Hobbies cost money and they should we have fun doing them.....FUN ISN'T CHEAP (name of my friends 50 foot boot and trust me that is a real expensive hobby !!! I know firsthand). Pinball is cheap.....

You should just quit while you're behind.

Your analysis is flawed.......you can't look at the dollar loss it is percentage loss that stays the same. Indirectly you just made my point. Also, when prices are rising the losses will be less (rising tide lifts all boats).....this is the first time in many years prices are falling......so the percentage losses will be more now then years ago. You can't look at the $ loss but you need to look at the percentage loss.....prices are higher so the losses will be higher even if the percentage loss stays the same. A $300 loss on a $3,000 pin is the same as a $600 loss on a $6,000 pin (10%) so your argument that this is a better deal is flawed badly (and you have to take into account overall prices are dropping on pins in general which means the losses today should be worse then when prices were rising).

Also, when you pick up a pin what cost do you assign (assuming you drive 4 hours round trip). I know most people if they buy a pin for $6,000 and drive a couple of hours to pick it up when they sell it use the $6,000 as their "cost" so if they sell it for $5,400 they lose $600 in their mind.....so why should shipping ever be included....so in my mind the cost of an AC/DC premium is $6,000 as the seller paid $300 for the convenience to not have to drive to pick it up (I believe certain distributors give you the option of picking it up and you can save the shipping if you are close enough to where they are produced)

In my opinion, you made my argument rather then hurt it.......so thanks....

HOP HOP , Hop along high school!
Hop , Hop, go hop

Scrappy is a pinball pappy rolling with the hopster
Hop is rich Rick rolling scrappy Doo hipster

We are small, he is big
We are less, he is more

If you say anything less then YOU are the bore!

gO HOP!

So PEN just so I understand price comments are never allowed on For Sale threads.....I just want to clarify because I am almost certain most pinsiders agreed this was fine and if the poster didn't want comments to just post it in marketplace (which allow no comments).

I can pull up so many sales threads where this has been discussed......I am 500% fine but that is always your out "he is a troll" if it is a comment you don't agree with. So I guess to never be considered a "troll" you just always have to go "with the grain" that really makes for a great forum where different views can be exchanged. I have said nothing MEAN in this thread. The fact I don't agree with your original asking price did not make me a Troll nor does my overall opinion on pinball prices in general. Would I be a troll if I believed AC/DC's should all sell for $7K or I felt strongly that pinball prices should appreciate 10% every year....of course not.....however, when that happens that also has as much of a negative effect on the hobby (just will effect the "newbies" so that is fine and not effect people with huge collections so that is accepted).

I can promise you that I am personally attacked way more then I attack anyone as opinions aren't attacking. The fact your pin never sold for near the asking price tells me my opinion on your price was correct......trust me, if you sold it for your asking price you would have let me know how wrong I was....NO DOUBT IN MY MIND....so just admit I was right but you can't......patience for buyers is the key right now......AC/DC premiums aren't going to go up in price through the summer.....I can assure you of that......so what is the risk of someone waiting a little longer as the price pressure on this title will only get worse "in my opinion".

New GC score on my machine! AC/DC is the thrill ride of the century

DSC09970.JPG

Your talent just continues to impress and amaze......maybe you have missed your calling. There is money to be made in writing poetry......might be a good way to offset the falling prices on your pinball machines

actually shipping, new rubbers, cleaning supplies and everything else you have "into" it should be considered in your mind. But. Things like LED's, mods and what not, usually doesn't make a game more valuable, so that extra spending usually doesn't mean dick when it comes to resale.

It's like when you sell a car. If you put some fancy rims on it, change the lines from rubber to some fancy braided mesh, Fancy air intake, maybe some custom leather work inside. When it comes time to sell, your going to take it in the butt. Because that will help the resale value none. It's a labor of love because you enjoy it and that's how you wanted it, but expect to take a huge loss when it comes time to sell. Pinball is exactly the same way. You might be able to trick some of the pin people, but people who really know, know better.

Now, it's true that higher starting price means for the % differences to work out, the gap has to be more. Where $400 on a $3500 game is a 9% loss. Where $600 on a $6200 game is 11% loss. But that is exactly what's taking place here. So, the standard used to be 9% loss on NIB. Now he's taking 11% loss (if he paid $6200), so in the grand scheme of things, it's a heavy 2% more discount than the usual loss on how NIB losses have been in the past. And it's one of the more popular titles to boot. It would be like if this was 2008 and LOTR sold for 3k. That would be a 11% loss on one of the best games released by stern.

And Centerflank.....now take it off of 10 ball and see how it goes.

HOP will,go down as one of the greatest all time pinball trolls. He is right up there with Frank from RGP. Ruthlessly continues to try to say the same thing over and over .... Wait for it .... And over . If you wiki internet troll you will. See there is a proposed modification of the definition to include some of his work as examples. HOP will be famous interweb - wide!

GO HOP!

Drop it like your HOP! - a soon to be released internet sensation featuring HOP Scrappy Doo instead of Snoop Dog.

Just a taste for the dedicated HOP fans .... ,!!!

When the pinside gets an attitude
Drop it like you're HOP
Drop it like you're HOP

When the pins price gets too high for you
Drop it like you're HOP
Drop it like you're HOP
Drop it like you're HOP

Scrappy has the pins on lock and his boat in the dock
He's got all the best pins yet and he's rich you can bet

H O P

Just a taste now... You know you want more HOP!! Just post an AC/ DC FS thread and watch him swoop in like a financial predator on a retiree!

Captain....again, the only difference is the shipping cost. I say unless you are driving to the guys house that shipping should be taken out before you calculate the decline (10-15 percent). Again, the market will ultimately dictate. However, with the market declining in general I would say losses on todays NIB should be higher then the older NIB's when prices were going up 10% or so a year......again, my opinion. However, it is what I am seeing and we can disagree on a lot of things but I was actively involved (more then most) in buying (17 pins) and selling (7 pins) over the last 10 months so I feel I at least have "an idea" of what different titles are selling for since I have been on both ends numerous times.

I don't feel Pen's price at $5,600 is that high either......I did at $5,900....I would say a deal is $5,300.....people are wanting deals do to the decline in price as they know patience with the summer coming will get them lower prices. I feel that it is very possible that AC/DC premium could hit the low $5's with regularity this summer......so I just think people are smart enough to see that again in my opinion......the best though is AVLE's because people paid a fortune they think they are worth more then they are......there is no doubt that title will be a $5K title this summer all day long (just look at X-MEN) and that is one reason they are not moving......if you could plot a graph of X-MEN and AVLE over time since release it would be very similar and X-MEN LE is the better title......

Finally, I know a lot more about pricing then people give me credit for.....I was a total newbie....bought 16 pins at the peak of the market and sold 7 of the 16......you know what I lost......nothing......in fact $2K to the plus side (and I never planned on selling any of them but the wife and me agreed that I was "out of control buying" and we agreed 10 was a good number to keep my collection at....and I had to agree as I just have so many other hobbies I don't need 20 pins).....my point is for the patient buyer (and I am more patient then it appears) you can mitigate losses by being smart. Buying an AC/DC premium for $5,900 with no extras doesn't make any sense so I stated my opinion and still believe with no options it is a sub $5,500 game......I wouldn't pay more then $5,300.....I would have jumped on HWAYANGA's for $5,500 if I didn't have one.....but that is how I buy......he did firesale it but you will see more of this rather then less with a lot of titles this summer.

Going forward I expect my own collection of 10 pins to decline $5K-$10K over the next few years....if I am wrong....Great but that is my expectation and for this hobby to only cost me $2k or so a year that is very cheap to have 10 games I can play whenever I want at my disposal.....

I paid $6k full for mine. So at $5600, I think it's a great deal overall. And I seemed to pay less than most did, so Pen is probably taking even a bigger loss than what I would if I sold mine for $5600.

And since some think i'm always on the low end of the spectrum, because they never been to the midwest I guess. This must be a screaming deal because I even think it's a good deal and would have already bought it, If I didn't have one myself.

When rationality won't do for you
Drop it like you're HOP
Drop it like you're HOP

When one account won't do for you
Start a new one like you're HOP
Start a new one like you're HOP
Start a new one like you're HOP

I have all these threads to get to, not commenting just won't do
I am smarter than the rest boo, drop it like you're HOP

Yes Scrappy Doo fans, have no worries. Your mascot theme song will be around for years to come. HOP will make his mark, come high or low prices!!! Remember , if you need to conjure up HOP, use the acdc FS line!!

Roomy you really have some issues.......not saying I don't but you aren't "playing with a full deck either" and are truly "losing it"....all I can do is "shake my head" after reading your posts.....Super Bowl starts soon thank god.....just watched my caps win 6-5 in overtime so it has been a good day......plus your entertaining truly makes me laugh...it really does.

Keep writing your poems/songs. If you can sing we may need to talk as I see a golden opportunity....I have seen worse material become hits so who knows this could end up "being big" and take you right to the top of the charts. Maybe next stop American Idol or The Voice.......stranger things have happened.

No religious talk on pinside, thanks!

BanHammer.jpg

Why worry?

It keeps your post bumped to the top, lol

Exactly.......keeps it right at the top so anyone looking for an AC/DC premium and willing to pay $5,600 can easily find one. Funny thing is if it was priced at $5,200 or less (bargain price) I promise this thing could be posted anywhere and people would find it !!! What nobody understands is people shopping for this pin do research and trust me they just need to find one motivated seller (i.e. someone that needs the money quickly to fund a pin or some unexpected expense) and they know they can get it for low $5's so they just keep looking and throwing out offers. I am sure Pen has had offers.....no doubt in my mind....so he knows what level the majority of the buyers are at and it is lower then $5,500 is my "gut feeling" which I feel is about right. Not like this post hasn't been seen by everyone by now !!!! I truly hope EABUNDY puts one up for sale soon......he is "in tune" with what pins will sell for (he moves them in and moves them out).....to me that will be a great indicator of what it takes to move an AC/DC premium.....he already showed me what he felt it takes to move a really nice AVLE which was $5K (assuming he even got his asking price....someone may have offered him $4,800 and he took it we will never know).

Again, these are opinions but as the days and weeks go by they are becoming stronger opinions based on what I continue to see. I just passed on a TSPP for $3,900 with mods (it was routed)......I offered a trade and cash on my BSD (to keep me at 10 pins) and he wanted all cash and $3,900 doesn't motivate me for a routed TSPP....$3,500 and a 3 hour round trip drive does and we will see what happens....he might get back with me or he might not there is always another deal to be had with patience......by the summer that offer might not look that bad and who knows he may give up selling it and try again and get back to me at a later date. Again, the key is putting together a list of pins you want to own (keep it a long list which I can because there are so many I want to own) and always buy "the best pin on the board value wise".....you do that you will not get hurt badly even as prices drop. Next recession/depression I will be on a buying spree and get all my "grail pins" (MB, AFM and CV to name a few).......the key is to always be "locked and loaded" and "ready to roll" when opportunity presents you "pounce".....and pins is just a hobby.....I do this with things that matter....stocks and R/E and it is just using that same concept with anything you buy (buy low and sell high.....the hard part is knowing when something is cheap and when it is expensive and right now PINS ARE EXPENSIVE......better buying opportunities will arise the risk of a "melt up" in my opinion is close to 0%....risk is to the downside so why rush any purchases).

So "keep shooting the messenger".......this is already playing out like I said many months ago....wait until the summer !!! Remember frame the 2014 pinball pricing guide it will be the top for many years to come on most titles......

hell for $5200, i'd buy it even tho I have one.

HOP

Dude just use 1-2 sentences & relax... You are taking this shit way too seriously

To those all anti-HOP or whoever the "troll of the month" is... You are taking this shit way too seriously too

Chill pendejo's

I would just contact him as he is asking $5,600 or best offer and if you truly feel it is a BARGAIN at $5,200 I am sure the two of you can make it happen....I know when I am only $400 apart and someone says "best offer" I make the deal happen 90% of the time. So put your money where your mouth is.....and lets get this pin sold !!! You guys can't be that far away if you TRULY feel $5,200 is a BARGAIN (which I feel that is a good price as well but not a "red light" special) and he is at $5,600 or best offer.....I don't see the word FIRM in his post so take a shot and back up your statement.....can't believe at $5,300 or $5,400 you don't feel similar so I am sure he will work with you !!!!

I don't want to be tempted. Really shouldn't be pissing away $5200 on a pin I already own right now, but man it would be powerful trade bait once the Luci sales stop.

You all need to relax and take a few days away from the computer.

Well Captain lets step up to the plate.......

As they always say "talk is cheap" and you see way too much of that on here and "money talks and BS walks".....if everyone feels that I am wrong why hasn't someone "stepped to the plate" I would be shocked if for $100 or $200 less he doesn't sell it so why doesn't someone make an offer close to the price and get the deal done. Rather, then just saying the game is worth what he is asking......that is my confusion with this thread and why I can't understand where my logic is flawed as nobody is "stepping up to the plate" and making a deal happen for close to his current asking price.....so everyone can disagree all they want but the "facts are the facts"...period. Maybe we can get a few "wish I was closer" posts tonight and tomorrow as well....LOL !!!!

Time to go down and watch the game as I can smell the food and need a couple of beers !!! GO SEAHAWKS.....should be a great game.

I personally think you're being a cry baby here. You've read what others have said or hopefully. If you don't want others commenting on your for sale thread then simply list it in the market place.

Not sure why you should be different than anyone else on here.

Haven't you got the memo......"different rules for different people" I got mine in the mail last week. It isn't what you say it is "who you are".....especially when it comes to ban votes.....however, my hope and belief is "things will change sooner rather then later" as a lot of people are seeing if for what it is.

I got to go and watch the game......but Eggbert you and others as well as myself see this for what it has become. Personally, I don't even need to advertise on pinside I just throw them up on CL when I want to sell and price them right and they sell.....pricing is what sells a game not having your friends on pinside trying to convince potential buyers you are a "great guy" and "your prices are great" ....YADA , YADA, YADA.....if I wanted to sell my AC/DC premium it would be gone in days it would be listed at $5,500 with shaker and pinblades and TNT mode (about $400 in extras and it would be gone......I would probably settle on $5,400 and have the guy pick it up.....but again it is perfect and has a shaker and other extras).

I am done got to get ready....kick-off is in 30 minutes !!!!

Yes HOP, I think it's become laughable.

dang... how'd i miss all the fun on this thread

office-space-michael-bolton.png

actually, i'd think you would like the conversations on here, good or bad. Helps promote your FS thread. Every FS thread I had where an argument started ended up with the game selling because of it.

OMG, a for sale post with 190+ replies about the price being what it is.....?? So much for Pinside being the nice place to be. Maybe we should change the name to the new RGP, which is looking better and better all the time. Grow up people.

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

Sorry, I just now saw this. (Some of us are knee-deep in chips/wings/sliders catering to men screaming at a TV, while watching personally watching Puppy Bowl.)

Closing by multiple request.