The debate over pricing gets back to this: what HAVE they been selling for and HOW MANY in the wild do you see?

Do we see CV's for sale every day? Every week? Every month? What data is out there to support it being a 4K, 6K or 9K machine. I think John Dayhuff is smart. Why should he make a 5 paragraph description just to hear how overpriced it is from people who will never buy it? John's rep as a seller is solid and he doesn't need to spend paragraphs telling us that either.

Take this example from a personal experience: I had a NEO GEO 2-slot, took pics, wrote a long a detailed description and posted it on KLOV (a great site for buying and selling vids and lots of info for the collector/restroration too). I got beaten up pretty bad for my asking price. LOTS of people telling me that I was too high and machines in that condition/quality sell for 25 to 50 percent less that what I wanted.

My reply to them was, "Wow! Where are all of these Neo Geo's at that price?" A week later, I had the machine sold for my full asking price . The buyer happily paid it and then sent me the beautiful pics of it restored in much better shape than I ever imagined.

I think this thread is suffering from "price shock." Regardless of what you think of this CV, prices have climbed. My $1000 won't buy as much as it used to. I want a W?D, but their prices are no longer in the 1K range. Do you know how I know that? EVERY ONE around here has sold for well over that. I think every pinball enthusiast is mad that they will have to spend more for the older games they SHOULD have bought earlier to save the money. Personally, I think the rage in this thread is about THAT. Want a MM, AFM, MB, CV or a Spiderman? Not unless you wanna sell a used car (or two).

Price should certainly be discussed but the comments about stupid and crack pipes are not necessary.

If someone is willing to pay $9k for a CV, they made an assessment based on information that is available to them and came to the conclusion, it is worth the money. It only takes one person to buy a game. If you are not this person then move on to the next post. I can understand the notion that based on the last sale you heard about, saw, or maybe even sold yourself, that $9k seems really high, but there are so many factors in making that decision. If it isnt worth $9k, it wont sell, if it does, then someone thought it was worth $9k.

Some are merely pointing out that a pristine HUO went for 7k recently and right before that another at $6500........and that the 9k price tag seems ridiculous, and yes I guess some uninformed buyer could come along and way overpay.....I guess that's what the seller on ebay "Fun" from Dallas counts on..........

The OP is asking for a lot of cash and many (myself included) think way too much for the machine. Expressing that can help prevent some newbies from vastly overpaying for a pin there is nothing wrong with that. If I were new to the scene I would appreciate some guidance regarding pricing.

That said, I do agree there is no need to be rude while expressing the opinion that it is overpriced.

I agree with all of this.

If you don't want comments placing an ad in the market is a great alternative. I started doing that after my fs threads were taken over by comments. Not so much price police, just various discussions unrelated to my game which I found unnecessary.

By the same token, most of the time someone will post a FS on a pin that is spot on and a great deal for pinsiders! I bought my SM from Doc and owe it to this site and I've seen way more great deals amongst the community than any negative ones......

When someone posts on Pinside for the first time and its a FS that seems way high and then other new posters crop up in support of it, it just seems a little fishy to me.....maybe that's just me

This is a great site with great, helpful people......!

While opinions on the price are all valid (and I'm not getting in on either side of this arguement!), you guys have to be aware of a few things. John is a very well respected member of the pinball hobby. He may be new here, but he is one of the well respected "elder members" of pinball. He buys and sells a ton of games and I would say probably has a better handle on current market value of various machines than many of us do. If he's pricing a machine this high, he has his reasons for it, and keeping in mind the OBO, I'm sure he will sell it for a price he and the buyer are both happy with.

He is also not the type of guy that is doing this hoping to "prey on" some poor newbie who doesn't know better. John is the complete opposite and has helped out many newbies get the right footing in the hobby, myself included (I bought my first machine from him). Anyone in this thread that is questioning John's character should really look elsewhere around the net and find out a little bit about him first. The pinball hobby doesn't live and die on Pinside, regardless of what some of you seem to think.

Just my opinion. Play nice guys.
Chris

I think is exactly why people are questioning it. Tons of people know John and John's M.O.. This CV seems to go against how/what he sells pricewise. You can't prey on a new buyer, because no one is forcing that buyer to purchase a game.

Pinside seems to have a reputation to some degree amongst veteran collectors, to have buyers willing to pay more for machines than other avenues. When you see a lot of these veterans start to make their way here and post machines for sale at prices they wouldn't have considered previously, it does make you wonder if these guys are "cashing out" while they can. I am NOT saying that is the case here, but you do see a lot of "veterans" heading this way to sell their games.

Well I guess anyone that pays 9k for a game can afford it and its probably not a bad thing to help folks get out of these games at the best price possible while they can. Go for it!!

I tilted my WH2O twice last night......

This times a thousand.

This is crazy wowwwwwwwwwwww

I dont disagree, 9K seems quite high. Just giving perspective.

Gweem I was actually biting my tongue there lol, I didn't think it was that bad but it is true. I know John has been around awhile and is a great guy, but crap is crap.

Just glancing at the blurry playfield pic I see a toasted shooter lane and what looks to be incorrect standup targets. I am sure the "averageness" doesn't stop there.

There is simply nothing there to justify his asking price, OBO or not.

+1

(To all except that I didn't buy my first pin from John.)

I think the truth is that the economy has been so bad for so long that people haven't had as much disposable income for hobbies. Now that the economy has started to turn, people feel secure and the wallets all start opening at the same time. The real question is are these prices highly inflated or were the prices in the relatively recent past (5 years) artificially low because people lacked the scratch for toys. I hope it's the former.

Well its good to know he seems to be a good guy and been around a long time....thanks for the info and I'm glad he's on Pinside......where the pinball world begins and ends! The price still stinks

Exactly.

Regardless of him being a nice guy and someone who has been in pinball a long time, it just seems that he has really missed the mark here, and as stated above, and as I stated in my first post in this thread, there is simply nothing in the description or photos that would justify a premium for this particular CV, never mind $9500.00.

What if he actually sells it at that price? Did he miss the mark at that point?

Just curious...

Sure....and if pigs had wings they could fly

Our new guy just hasn't made it into the circle of trust yet

...ok, but $6500 is not $4500, which is what you are implying the game is worth. I think it's interesting that you have a preorder on WOZ. So you are willing to pay $6500-7500 for a game you've never seen, played, or even heard hardly anything about aside from it having an LCD, but $4500 is the max value for a scarce and desirable game with proven track record?

I'm not saying the game IS worth the asking price, but it will certainly go for well over $4500.

Not implying 4500 at all if it's in the "pristine" condition .....I'm stating that 6500 to 7000 is more the range that he will get from an informed buyer...

Old game...

Exactly, I'm drinking the whole 6500 WOZ kool aid.....and since I love JPOP creativity I'm paying the 10k for BHZA, not to be completed until the end of next year, CV, Totan, WCS and Tom are cool games....the next pin I'll buy will be JJP#2 Hobbit.....

It's only new pins and new technology for me for now, if I'm going to spend that much money it's coming out of a box

Ok, sure, but then John is asking about 25% more than your perceived value of the game, which I am sure has increased over the last few years. That's not such an unreasonable markup for the 'when pigs fly' and 'crack pipe' comments, as most buyers don't pay the asking price on pins. For that matter, even $7k probably seems like a ridiculously high price to some other people... but not to you. What's the benchmark?

Honestly, I'm trying to objective. There are games I would like to have (like MB) that I can't find at a price I find reasonable. And I wouldn't pay more than $500 for that CV.

Be careful, you might be drinking a case of your favorite beer once you open the box. It may be great, it may totally drive you nuts..... to be seen. "Old games" are proven, reliable commodity.

FWIW, a CV just sold in Northern California for $6750 and it was in average shopped condition. This was the machine that was listed on mrpinball. There was wear around a couple of inserts and the cabinet had some bumps and bruises from being routed. It was a 6.5-7.0 at best.

Or they can just be old/dated and need a lot of maintenance.

Northern CA is probably one of the most expensive places in the US to buy pins it is ridiculous. Not a good place to base average prices on at all IMO.

Modern Stern's break just the same. WOZ and BHZA won't even be running on a proven, reliable system with well documented repair information, so who's to say? I'm just saying. We may be comparing apples to apples, but one of them isn't even a blossom on the branch yet.

I'll have to agree to disagree. I have put much less maintenance on Sterns than older Williams. 20 year old pins with a lot of play on them will need more work than a newer less played pin. There is no comparison IMO. Stern & JJP have many of the same talented people that made those great pins and now have a wealth of experience. With new competition I foresee some bad ass pins coming up in the near future.

I think these new pins have been and will continue to require less work than a 20 year old pin. Hey if it floats your boat and you can afford it go ahead and pay the highly inflated prices for a 20 year old machine instead of a brand new one for less or the same amount of cash. To each their own as long as you keep em flippin.

I'm starting to come around to the same line of thinking Dude.
Just got my first NIB and my "must have" B/W games are already under my belt. I think it will be all new for me from here on out.
Sadly, I really love to restore pins, so I'll be missing out on this.
If I'm really lucky maybe I'll be able to score a routed CV or TOTAN for a fraction of these asking prices.
That's the only way I see myself getting any more 20yr old games.

I was on a WPC-95 and Stern kick a year ago and wanted a CV or SM. I saw 3 nice CVs in the 3-4 K range and 2 SM in the same range. Bought HUO SM. Fast forward one year.CV has blown up more than AFM if this is true. Game must be nice because I usually wish John lived in Denver when he posts his prices.

I am very sorry, but I just cannot unsee this

The BHZA is a new game with new technology and Jpop is intent on changing the pinball experience and it is a limited run of 124 pins and a great theme in my opinion...Could it stink it up, sure

Put all that together and its worth the risk to me, the premium...BBB had 222 pins made and is bought as an "investment" and piece of art by a lot of people...

I can buy a CV, Totan or just about any other pin any time I want to.....they are readily available, with price being the issue and they just don't stack up with the new pins and time and supply will reflect the disconnect in pricing right now...

WOZ actually got me back into pinball and I picked up a LOTR LE and SM since then....

As for finding games like MB at a reasonable price I think patience is the key and you might have to wait a year or two as more people unload the older pins for the newer "must have" titles....but MB has the collectibility factor going for it also......but when JJP, Jpop or Stern make a similar theme with lcd and newer toys and technology then that's where the dollars will be flowing....

Wasn't the CV that won best of show at PATZ owned by Eric A. He is selling his and also asking 9-something.

Yes

Not anymore.

Wow , I thought 2 years would be the timetable but it's shifting now ..

I'd like to know what the selling price was, but only because I'll be looking for one next year. Looked like a pretty nice one.

Michael

sorry wrong thread.
Not sold.

Well, it might be but i didn't mean to post that here.

LOL. Took me a minute to get that one. Zip....almost right over my head!

LOL

Congrats, John. Now go work on your pic uploading...