I agree, flippers can bite me. I can almost understand people who buy cheap items and flip with a reasonable markup. But when the price of your LE toy is close to 10k, flipping is madness.

Sometimes the LE is a turd, though, so don’t get too bent out of shape.

I get it the only reason I have started to gravitate towards the LE model is that a fellow pinhead said when I first got involved in this wild and fun hobby is that even though it may not be the best LE they tend to hold their value when you do want to cut them loose vs a pro or a premium.

Buy a premium!!! The art is better anyway and you can add the other stuff

Honestly, Stern should just sell the LE’s themselves and put an end to this madness. It’s going to pave the way for higher pricing.

I bought an LE from someone in the past that decided they didn't want it. The upcharge was a few hundred bucks...they could have made much more so I was quite happy. I could live with that. What is going on lately is just madness.

Now, it's up for trade for a POTC (JJP) or whatever expensive new pin that has established price. Who the hell would trade a game you physically have for a pre-order? This is just as bad as selling R&M spots for $2k. Honestly, I blame these payments everyone got. It was Monopoly money.

Pretty sure the people who have the money for 10+ NIB machines (or high end popular machines) are not getting all these payments....ffs.

Almost agree. The Premium side armor add-on is pretty sweet. Brian Eddy said the side armor was defined by Disney. That with the cab colors is nicely done.

Welcome to the new state of the hobby.

Gone are the prevalent tinkering and engineering days.

Now, it is all about how deep your pockets are and how many zeros you can put on your check.

I understand that’s how it seems with the hobby of late, but some of us still tinker as well as dabble in new stuff.
Unfortunately the LE flipping is nuts and gets the most attention in what otherwise would be a cool new pinball release.

That's the point of the LE. It's limited. Not everyone can get one and you have to pay extra for that little plaque. Sorry, zero sympathy for you poor soul fighting over overpriced pinball machines. Buy a premium. Not only will you save a bunch of money but you will have zero problems buying one.

Curious, how in Any way would Stern selling direct change this??? Once they or Any dealer sells a game not much they can say about what you do with it later.

Well, that’s not always true. Stranger Things Premium had sold out everywhere, and that’s what pushed me to considering an 11k LE. In the end, I passed the info along to another Pinsider and instead went home with a Pro that I ended up loving. But your point is right for most Sterns. And maybe they’ll re-run STH Premium eventually.

It’s even more frustrating when it happens with older pins. You see something rare for sale for a reasonable price, and it’s snatched up by a flipper within minutes of being posted. A week later it pops for sale for $1000 more, and they just wiped it down and put LEDs in it.

You sure, a husband and wife got $2,800 just the last round (two previous before). That's monolopy money, throw away money for those buying these. If it's money you never expected or need, why not put it towards that must have game? See, that is a major reason prices are up. I'll pay more because it's money I just got for free.

Just msrp them at 11k already, and if that sells out in an hour make it 13k, then 15k. Split it with the distributors. I’m rooting for the people creating and distributing these games making a profit more than people selling games here. Sorry, it’s part of my long term plan of being in this hobby for a while.

This really is nothing new it happens all over the place. Look at sporting events or concert tickets... how does Stubhub exists without resale?

People buy exotic cars and flip them within seconds for hundreds of thousands more, or homes same thing.

Again nothing new to see here. Might be frustrating but at the same time its just life.

I wouldn't either. If it helps make you feel better, they may not be able to sell it at a profit. The prices can't keep going up, and someone will get caught holding the bag when that happens. I remember my buddy buying a PS2 for $100 over retail in order to flip for $200 over retail. He sold it at a loss, because the market turned just at that point. We won't see that point coming. It could be five years from now. It could be today.

Tacky way of doing things and its not good for the hobby. And yes, there
are still a few of us left that find dead older pins, fix them up and play them.
I'll let others fork out many kilo-bucks for the new stuff.

Well said

I totally get it. You want a pin but demand is high which makes it tough and expensive to get. It's no different than the classic pin market. Popular titles demand a premium and market full of flippers. On these older pins there are no other options. However, you do have options when buying nib. Premium is 100% same game as LE and cheaper. Pro sometimes plays better so worth considering. You can buy these without any markup. You can even wait a while for prices to settle and get LE used.

In recent years folks have been convincing themselves (and each other!) that only the latest and greatest Limited run pins with A+ commerical themes and lots of mods are the only ones that matter, and in turn the hobby is seeing a number of quick flip attempts and high price bidding wars taking advantage of this idea.

As a result, it's leading to frustration, anger, maybe jealousy, or just the feeling of being left out.

Left out because you are a true fan and didn't get to own it, or because you couldn't be the one to make a precious dollar. Or perhaps, both.

And meanwhile, NO ONE has even played it yet. Hype is some powerful shit.

I think it's obvious that for a large number of new folks coming into the hobby, they truly believe the factors stated above are the only way to enjoy pinball, because it's an all too familiar marketing ploy found in society. We've seen it everywhere else for years. Everything from cars to candy. Latest and greatest. Be the first. Only X number made. Don't miss out. People are convinced and spend.

I'm not here to argue what others like or what you should buy. To each their own. But to those who feel constantly burned or left out...at what point do you realize the way others are doing things isn't something worth putting up with? Can you stick up for yourself and walk away from the greed fest? I know some of us can and do so.

"On these older pins there are no other options"

On these older pins, there are PLENTY of options. This is still a great hobby if you want it to be. And it doesn't have to cost a lot of money.

I look forward to playing Mando on location and wish for those who truly want to own this game the best of luck. Just dont let their bullshit affect you too much if it doesnt happen.

I may purchase a frame for this post.
Well said.

Well, when you consider the fact that what we have now is a "trickle UP" economy.....uh.....yeah. Those payments are ending up in the hands of the wealthy, because people are spending them. It might be via a business like owning a restaurant or construction company, it might be because we used some of that money to buy a "not NIB" pinball machine from them. If you really think that the money that's been handed out over the last year doesn't impact things like this, you might want to take some time and really think about economics and how money works, how we've ended up in this place where very few people control the vast majority of wealth, and things that are taken for granted in civilized places (Yeah, I said it.) like your healthcare being paid out of your taxes, are a virtual impossibility in the US.

Oh, also inflation. Clench up on that one.

I got full amount of both payments. I didn't *need* either one to survive, but I also didn't lose my job. My wife more or less did, for a while, and got screwed on unemployment, but we would've survived without either payment, I think. Point is...there's probably a lot of people in my situation that didn't *need* the money, and no doubt some of them spent it on really ridiculous things like pinball machines or leasing a Benz or whatever. Trust me...plenty of that money ended up in the hands of people that didn't get paid it directly by the government...

Yeah, and lots of it went to the already rich and unscrupulous. I tire of people complaining about the poor getting extra money as if THAT's the problem in this country. They very much could have been a bit more selective in who got money, that is true, but listening to well off people complain about it is laughable. (and full disclosure we got half of the first and none of the rest). We definitely didn't need any of it.

Truth

LEs are overrated...

It’s not like they said you Had to run out and buy a toy with it? You could donate it to a children’s hospital or church if it bothers you so much?

I didn't say I didn't. But thanks for playing.

Totally agree. What I meant by older pins have no other options is that if you want a specific title you generally have to pay market value. If you want TAF but have only a T2 budget then that's just not going to work. You either need to save up more or buy a cheaper pin.

With this new trend starting you can bet your asses distributors will just sell LE's for $15K right out the gate. I would rather the distributors get the money than some slim bag anyway.

Stern will undoubtedly see this and raise their prices and then the Distro’s will bump up to (insert ridiculous price here) that’s great until the first mediocre LE comes out and the Distro’s will be committed to and sitting on a bunch of LE’s they can’t sell. Stern gets paid by the Distro no matter what so in the end it’s the distributors that would be hurt.

What gets me is that most of the flippers that get a LE of a title that you know is gonna be a hit, are close friends of a Distributor with inside info!!

LEs immediately selling out and being sold for more by flippers = this decade's Beanie Babies

seems nobody has an issue or ever complains when they themselves buy a pin for less than current street value, or sell it for more than current street value

I don't really understand the whole model. Deliberate scarcity with no value add is lame.
There is nothing unique on the LE beyond worthless bling, or minor stuff like better glass and a shaker that you can easily source for a premium for $500 all in.

Stop buying LEs - they're not worth it. If Stern didn't offer the premium it would be different, but...

And just like that, Stern LE sales trickled to almost nothing!

Good thing there was someone to clarify for us what we should buy and spend our money on. Whew, I almost bought what I wanted! Curious by your avatar one could Assume you bought the Mustang v6 since well the GT is a waste of money and a money grab!

I hear what you are saying, I'm just saying what some of us can agree upon is that there is more to this hobby than just NIB LE machines. I won't bash LE machines themselves. They're still pinball machines and i'm glad they are being made for someone to (eventually) enjoy after all the money grabs settle down. They have their own market and maybe some folks should consider and maybe accept the fact that Pro or Premium is your true option, or maybe NIB isn't for you after all.

I know there are folks who are proclaiming things like the hobby is being ruined because they're all in on high priced LE pinball machines but missed out on the latest one because of scalpers, or how awful Stern is for letting this happen. Trust me, this form of marketing is never going away as much as people would like it to. Stern would lose money because of yet another Pinside business proposal.

I think we can agree that some of us understand the hobby is special enough without having to pay extra for an ancient marketing gimmick of a number that assures us we're part of a special group. Maybe some people really need that validation, then I won't go there. But I would like to imagine others will move on and recognize marketing gimmicks and have a little more control over them, at the same time, discovering how special older classic machines really are. Now we're talking REAL limited numbers!

The reverse-cargument! I like it.

It’s a good point. No car guys should be telling anybody what to do with their money, can’t imagine a worse “investment.”

Well then cry me a river about scalping of LEs. But if it makes you feel special to have your LE pin, good for you I guess.

And your car example is actually perfect - something like a Mustang GT just about perfectly slots in as a Premium model equivalent in this analogy vs some sticker package "limited" model with the same hardware that is nothing but a cash grab for suckers. Nice one, LOL.

Screw artificially limited, no-value-added cash grabs no matter what topic we're taking about.

Yeah and some people don't mind paying a lot more for what’s sure to be special limited run with a few additional features. Why should you get the game over others who are willing to pay more?

These threads are pointless. A limited edition is LIMITED by definition. When you have more people wanting the game than games available, you have a conflict. Everybody has their own idea how the conflict should be resolved:

"I want it more therefore it should be mine."
"I ordered first..."
"I know the distributor personally..."
"I bought the last 5 LEs..."
"I'm willing to pay more..."

Y'all are like a bunch of kids who argue over the cool toys. Limited editions are pure cash cows, all about the benjamins.. if you don't like the rules, don't play the game.

Completely untrue the minute you get away from limited run games. There's still all kinds of folks tinkering with EMs, restoring classics and building homebrew games. Look at the folks building games from scratch... Want a Star Gazer but don't want to pay 6K? Build one with 2K worth of parts like jjsmooth.

Stern will make as many premium Mandalorians as necessary. Buy one of those, they play the same.

We're lucky Stern does not have Pro, Premium, and Limited Edition Topper series!

I'll just continue to ignore the new shiny stuff/drama and keep enjoying my 90s pins

Aren’t toppers all pretty much LE at some point?

Haven't posted a single complaint about scalping or price. Thank you for letting me get the game I want. I appreciate you.