(Topic ID: 224359)

Frontier - all new Alltek boards won't boot

By 1iblind

5 years ago


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  • 32 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by 1iblind
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

I got a Frontier that was missing all the boards and displays. The only original board left was the lamp board and sound board. I got all new Alltek boards (MPU, Rectifier, Solenoid) and displays but the game is stuck at 6 flashes. 2 initial flasheds, a long pause, then 4 more flashed. Then the LED stays solid.

All connectors and voltages are good at the transformer, rectifier, solenoid board, and mpu. Yes, that means the 43VDC also. I also disconnected the flipper and knocker coils. They were poorly installed/hacked. I also tried disconnecting connectors that aren't needed to boot. Still only getting 6 flashes.

#2 5 years ago

Can you post a picture of the boards all connected up? Have a ball in the trough? Some games require a ball in the trough, just to go in attract mode. Though I keep forgetting if it is only Williams games.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you post a picture of the boards all connected up? Have a ball in the trough? Some games require a ball in the trough, just to go in attract mode. Though I keep forgetting if it is only Williams games.

Some Ballys (Centaur comes to mind) require it

#4 5 years ago

If it is required to have the ball in the game, then maybe the MPU is not detecting it. Try reseating your 2 right MPU wired connectors as you try pressing the start button. That would be a sign you would need to repin those 2 wired connectors.

#5 5 years ago

Frontier does not need a ball in the trough to boot.

#6 5 years ago

It sounds like you're only getting 5 flashes, not 6. The first 2 flashes you mention are likely the initial flicker, then the 1st flash, pause, the 4 more flashes.

Can you confirm what you call the 1st flash is of shorter duration than the 2nd flash? If so, then the 1st flash is what is called the flicker, followed by the 1st flash and so on.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from pinplayer01:

It sounds like you're only getting 5 flashes, not 6. The first 2 flashes you mention are likely the initial flicker, then the 1st flash, pause, the 4 more flashes.
Can you confirm what you call the 1st flash is of shorter duration than the 2nd flash? If so, then the 1st flash is what is called the flicker, followed by the 1st flash and so on.

Or take a video of the flashes?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from pinplayer01:

It sounds like you're only getting 5 flashes, not 6. The first 2 flashes you mention are likely the initial flicker, then the 1st flash, pause, the 4 more flashes.
Can you confirm what you call the 1st flash is of shorter duration than the 2nd flash? If so, then the 1st flash is what is called the flicker, followed by the 1st flash and so on.

I tried an old MPU I had laying around. On it I get the initial flicker followed by 5 flashes. So I believe you are correct. I'm only getting 5 real flashes. On the Alltek board the initial flash is just as bright as all the others.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you post a picture of the boards all connected up? Have a ball in the trough? Some games require a ball in the trough, just to go in attract mode. Though I keep forgetting if it is only Williams games.

Yes, I'll post a picture of everything wired up tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your help so far!

#10 5 years ago

Doesn't make sense that something on the machine would be interrupting the sixth flash though, isn't that internal to the board?

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Doesn't make sense that something on the machine would be interrupting the sixth flash though, isn't that internal to the board?

That's why I'm stumped. I've tried 3 different MPUs. All give me the same result. Maybe something it up with the new rectifier and/or the solenoid boards? I'm not blowing any fuses.

#12 5 years ago

The last MPU flash of the power on self test is a check of the zero crossing signal which is derived from the rectifier board. Essentially it's the solenoid 43V power line to the MPU board.

1) Check test point TP5 on the rectifier board for 43VDC
2) If no voltage, check and replace the 5A fuse at F4 on the rectifier board if it's blown.
3) If rectifier board TP5 and the F4 fuse test ok, measure TP2 on the Alltek MPU board for 43VDC (original Bally MPU is 21.5V at test point TP3)
4) If no voltage check for a bad connection between the rectifier board connector J3 Pin 12 to the MPU board connector J4 pin 15 (Grey wire).

#13 5 years ago

Make sure you clear the Altek's memory first via the DIP switches before you set it to the Frontier setting.

#14 5 years ago

Try disconnecting the sound board.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Try disconnecting the sound board.

He tried this already.

Quoted from bayoubilly70:

Make sure you clear the Altek's memory first via the DIP switches before you set it to the Frontier setting.

Yes, definitely do this!

Beyond that, I would also agree with Quench. You are probably missing +43 AT THE MPU CONNECTOR OR BOARD. Just because it is a new board and tests good at the NEW REC. BOARD does not necessarily mean that it's making it's way to the MPU. The connector on the lower left most of the MPU is where +5, +12, +43, and GND enter the board. The pins in THAT CONNECTOR are typically trashed on an early 80's Bally and will need to be replaced.

A lot of the times that lower left MPU connector+pins alone is why early Bally machines fail to boot.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from bayoubilly70:

Make sure you clear the Altek's memory first via the DIP switches before you set it to the Frontier setting.

I forgot to mention that I have also tried this. Still getting the same result on all 3 MPUs I've tried.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

He tried this already.

Yes, definitely do this!
Beyond that, I would also agree with Quench. You are probably missing +43 AT THE MPU CONNECTOR OR BOARD. Just because it is a new board and tests good at the NEW REC. BOARD does not necessarily mean that it's making it's way to the MPU. The connector on the lower left most of the MPU is where +5, +12, +43, and GND enter the board. The pins in THAT CONNECTOR are typically trashed on an early 80's Bally and will need to be replaced.
A lot of the times that lower left MPU connector+pins alone is why early Bally machines fail to boot.

I've tested all the voltages starting at the transformer, on the rectifier board, on the solenoid board, and on the MPU. They are all good.

#18 5 years ago

Is there a red LED lit on the Alltek MPU? If so, it indicates a problem.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from 1iblind:

I've tested all the voltages starting at the transformer, on the rectifier board, on the solenoid board, and on the MPU. They are all good.

Then I'd say you are screwed if 3 good MPUs fail to boot with all good voltages.

You ONLY need the lower left connector at the MPU to get a booting state. If you tried that with all 3 MPUs, I'd say you have 3 bad MPUs. Do you have another Bally you can toss the Alltek in to confirm that it's good?

#20 5 years ago

So it's failing at the second last test and not passing the "6th Flash: U12 555 Display interrupt timer"?

Take the MPU board back to bare minimum by removing all peripherals and disconnect J1, J2 and J3 from the MPU board and also J4 from the solenoid driver board and J1 from the sound board to see if it powers up with all LED flashes (flicker plus 7 flashes).

-1
#21 5 years ago

TP2 on the Alltech is for 43v. What does it measure? The 6 flash problem is almost always caused by missing 43v at the MPU.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

So it's failing at the second last test and not passing the "6th Flash: U12 555 Display interrupt timer"?
Take the MPU board back to bare minimum by removing all peripherals and disconnect J1, J2 and J3 from the MPU board and also J4 from the solenoid driver board and J1 from the sound board to see if it powers up with all LED flashes (flicker plus 7 flashes).

This worked! The game completed the initial flicker and 7 flashes. Does this mean my MPUs are all bad or have something bad on them?

Here are some photos of the voltages I tested.

TP3 - 4.94
TP5 (Zero Crossing) - 21.7
TP6 - 5
TP7 - 44.2

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#23 5 years ago

Try reconnecting those connectors one at a time, see which one causes the issue

#24 5 years ago

With everything, except J1 on the MPU, plugged in I can get the game to complete all flashes. I thought I had already done this but I guess I didn't.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Try reconnecting those connectors one at a time, see which one causes the issue

J1 causes the issue.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from 1iblind:

J1 causes the issue.

Try reconnecting J1 again but disconnect J4 from the lamp driver board.
A peripheral board is shorting pins on one of the MPU board PIAs I/O pins causing that PIA test to fail on power-up.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Try reconnecting J1 again but disconnect J4 from the lamp driver board.
A peripheral board is shorting pins on one of the MPU board PIAs I/O pins causing that PIA test to fail on power-up.

J1 on MPU plugged back in and J4 on lamp driver board disconnected. No dice. Back to initial flicker and 5 flashes.

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#28 5 years ago

Ok, the other 2 peripherals connected on MPU J1 are the sound board and the displays. Try disconnecting the sound board first and if still no good then start disconnecting the displays.

#29 5 years ago

With J1 at the MPU disconnected the solenoid diagnostic LEDs on the solenoid driver board have Q19 lit. I believe that's the coin lockout coil. So I disconnected that and still no change when I plug J1 back in and power up the game.

#30 5 years ago

Tried disconnecting the sound board. No change. Then I disconnected all of the displays. Got all 7 flashes. I reconnected each display, starting with the credit display, one at the time. Then I plugged in the last display and now everything is fully working! Maybe I didn't have a display connector seated all the way or the connector was off by a pin. I didn't notice anything weird when I removed and reseated the display connectors. I had also tried disconnecting the displays before and there was no change. Weird! Thanks everyone for your help though! Now I can started shopping out the playfield!

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#31 5 years ago

Kinda sounds like you need to repin a connector, or two, or more.

#32 5 years ago

Agreed. I'll order some new connectors. It's not good to mix old and new connectors long term.

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