(Topic ID: 141656)

From Expo: No licensed Songs on TBL

By Skins

8 years ago


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  • 533 posts
  • 143 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Roostking
  • Topic is favorited by 19 Pinsiders

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#141 8 years ago
Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

I'm seriously wondering what DP was doing all that time between last year and this year, because sure the playfield's as great as it was then, but nothing else about the game has gotten any better.

I think they were busy:
- completing BOP2.0 software,
- getting everything from the prototype to production stage,
- working with the external factory to finetune all playfield stuff so it can be manufactured by them,
- finding partners for small things like toy's & stuff,
- twisting by the pool with Universal about their very clear license,
- creating a new basic framework from the ground up (software & hardware) to build a line of pinball machines on (the proto's were built with more "off the shelf" stuff like Proc etc. This was always pointed out by DP since they told me this at the DPO2014)

People tend to think these guys were on extended vacation the last year, but I know they weren't

#192 8 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

deja vu all over again.

You mean "the Pinside rollercoaster experience"? Yeah, you're right...

10
#360 8 years ago

This is the fuck up that's called Buma/Stemra: http://www.bumastemra.nl/en/

They are responsible for this thread on Pinside. This organization represents "the artist" in a very broad manner. They collect taxes on music sold (cd's, mp3's etc.) and they have their own ("mystical") system of collecting these taxes when music is played before an audience (live performance, playing music in front of a crowd, playing music on the work floor or using music in movies or other productions).

For as long as this organisation exists (over a 100 years) they have several "incidents", one involving the disappearance of several millions of Euro's in collected "music rights" so it's reasonable to say that most of our fellow Dutch citizen really HATE their guts. Read something about one of their scandals here: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111201/17275016947/anti-piracy-group-caught-pirating-song-anti-piracy-ad-corruption-scandal-erupts-response.shtml and also here: https://torrentfreak.com/copyright-corruption-scandal-surrounds-anti-piracy-campaign-111201/

As a Dutch citizen myself I had some conflicts with them as well. We had music playing at our office space (6 workers listening) and also in our showroom and one day some person walks in and introduces herself as somebody from Buma/Stemra. She asked if I was aware of the fact that I had a radio station playing in my office building. My sarcastic answer didn't do much good, so within a couple of weeks I received a bill of 580 Euro's as a YEARLY tax for playing music for a number of people and a work space being x square foot...

Me protesting didn't do much, so from that day on we pay a yearly amount of money just to play the radio on the work floor... Getting information from these people on their rules, how things work and what I could (not) do on a simple thing as playing a radio on the work floor got me several different kinds of stories from these buggers and also several different amounts of money I had to pay, ranging from several hundred to several thousand Euro's. I finally settled on an amount I had on paper and payed that to get rid of threats to sue me.

Not to talk down this problem, but it might give you guys some insight on the problems DP must have faced with this organisation: pinball music is something completely new for these Buma/Stemra a**holes and they must have seen $$$ in this, changing the rules down the road as they did with me.

#362 8 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

So you aren't free to listen to music? That sounds insane. But that organization isn't the reason why DP can't sell us a pin with licensed music.

Yes you are, but not in an environment outside of your home. As soon as you play music "for others" you officially have to pay something, depending on the size of the crowd, the circumstances (work, party, performance, etc.) and the size of the room.

And yes they are: DP had the licenses taken care of some time ago, when Buma/Stemra came back much later with new "rules" about using the music they bought the rights to (as Jaap explained during the seminar). I was writing e-mails and calling about my relatively simple problem for several months or so, so I can imagine this "discussion" could go on for quite a while. At some point DP had to make a choice because they need to move on and they need to stay on some budget for using music in this machine.

#364 8 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

That's insane! So they could show up at a holiday office party and slap a fine on you? How do the Dutch tolerate this?

Yes they can, as long as it's not a private/closed party. Also work space and space that can be entered by the public fall under these laws. Public performances, shows, DJ's playing music for a crowd, music being played by a pinball machine, you playing a CD you bought in front of others: it all falls under these Dutch laws and TBL, officially being a Dutch product, does also. Not everything will be scrutinized as thoroughly as when there are commercial gains to be made of course.

The main problem here is that these guys have bought the rights and they HAVE the rights. But later on Buma/Stemra came back to them stating new rules because they must have found out that DP was going to use parts of the music or use the music from a movie without showing that specific part of the movie and somebody must have found out that this was not covered in the agreement (why? beats me).

#395 8 years ago

But now that original music is out, buma/stemra is out also and there is no music or artist to protect anymore. The music used is more freely usable if I'm correct and leaving the system open to change the music is like giving the customer a cassette tape that they can rerecord with new music. The customer can do what he wants with his cassette tape without hurting the guy that sold him the tape...

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