Agreed, I've found the Dutch to be VERY direct. And I don't mind that, especially in business because then you know where you stand, what you need to work on, what they need to work on. They also work very hard in my experience, another plus.

But in business, you have to play by the rules. If they plan on selling in the US, they need to understand the US rules and abide by them, whether they like them or not.

Please stop spreading misinformation. Covers or re orchestrations aren't "midi". It will sound as high quality as any other modern game. Listen to BOP 2.0.

Midi/covers, didn't intend it as a pejorative.

The point is, it will sound FINE. AND very real chance that in unsupported fashion, will sound better.

Did not intend to mislead.

Although it will be MIDI music, that does not mean that it's necessarily bad.

It just means that a computer played some/all of the instruments.

Guitar is hard to sound expressive through MIDI, but most other instrument performances (Drums, Bass, Piano, Strings.....) commonly use MIDI.

Are people just trying to mess with RareHero now or not?

Yes not telling any of their customers UNTIL Expo certainly fits.

Incomplete.
Late.
Not as advertised or not at all.
All of the above.

Wasn't there today, but last night was consistently too busy for my tastes.

Even on this pic, 3-4 people waiting to play the middle and right pins. Can't see enough for the first pin. Not a long line, but I don't want to wait for three or four players. Matter of semantics I suppose, but the picture helps.

Hobbit was more crowded, but only one machine.

thanks - looks kool to me

99% of all songs recorded in the last 30 years use MIDI.

The only Jazz, Classical or acoustic blues would possibly be exempt (and even then, the mixing console would use MIDI or SMPTE for the automation).

I'm certainly looking forward to a TBL with MIDI music! I see the light now, this pin is everything I was hoping it would be!

...now, back to negbombing Kaneda for every post with a "guys" in it.

Their are a few important songs from the movie that could cover 90% of what is needed. Did they attempt to get the approval for them?

I was looking at covers of tumbling tumbleweed last night, there are a lot of them on you tube and they are mostly decent.

Yes but they aren't referred to as MIDI music; the thing that was shared earlier that got misconstrued was a midi file that alsounded just as bad as it did on my PC in college.

I hear ya.

There are great MIDI songs, and there are terrible ones.

Think how great the MIDI Keytar is in Black Knight 2000:

and how sucky the MIDI is in :

Let's not, and say we did.

I played it a couple hours ago, not really lines (just a person waiting behind each game to play next). Midi music doesn't bother me, but I'm surprised the rug mode isn't done considering they got a fully working pinball done in the first 9 months, and in a year they've only got most of the code done and some artwork changes? Also during bowling mode, the 2nd roll wouldn't release the ball (and there's no code for ball search so the ball just sat down there). Also noticed during all the video modes that the speech isn't syncing up with the video, so it's like watching a kung fu movie.

You have to realize the approval process is arduous and they can't show what hasn't been approved. For all we know the modes are done but they can't show them yet. In any case - Look at BOP 2.0. When I received mine earlier in the year - it only had the small wheel modes. Maybe a month later they added the video mode....a few months later we got the Big Wheel modes. Just because the modes aren't there doesn't mean they haven't been worked on in some capacity to be "plugged in" later.

Yeah! It needs to have the original music in it like Guns N' Roses and Tommy!

Yep, that is original music alright........Just not original Who music.

Todd just released this today, but it appears to be from 2014. I try to watch all of Todd's video because he's pretty corny and entertaining and he gets a lot of arcades and pins that go through his warehouse/shop.

Looks like they sat on that video for a year?

Seems like yesterday. I wonder what they'd say if you told them then they'd be at the next expo with the same 3 prototypes.

Thanks for the info/updates

Given the bad news.. don't you think they would have fought back the 'lack of progress' news with disclosing that? You're really starting to sound like the guy who denies the earth is round.

In short.. the product wasn't done when it was supposed to be. Rather than just being approvals.. the reality is probably much more like this, than your theory. Now they'll have to go and find all this music to use, integrate it, and then get approvals again..

Can we please clarify " MIDI" ( Musical Instrument Digital Interface) ? MIDI is simply a standardized " language" that allows digital keyboards, tone generators, drum machines, etc, to talk to each other ( syncing patterns, accessing presets, etc.).

I don't believe " MIDI Music" is a correct term, but rather "digital, sampled, remixed" whatever, would be right.

" MIDI" by itself, doesn't make any noise....in essence a music industry communication standard ( like DMX for lighting, RS232 for machine control, etc.)

Not sure how old you are but maybe 19?0 - 1995, there were MIDI music files, extension .mid that would have really crappy versions of songs (by today's standards). I remember I had a huge collection I got from Usenet newsgroups. Your sound card quality (sound blaster?) Would affect somewhat how good/bad it sounded.

The context here was that the most popular sound file format of the time was .wav files.. A single track of a song would be 30mb back when hard drives were 200mb, and mp3 didn't exist yet. So people would trade MIDI files as crude aproximations of music (like they do now with mp3s). Once mp3 was invented ( I found mp3s in ~1996) , MIDI music as a file format was dead.. Though I find a surprising amount of archives out there.

Which is why some of us are offended by the term being thrown around as it is synonymous with poor approximations... Vs a cover of the music where there's actual stuff like.. Vocals.

Exactly my point, and sadly I am old ( well 56) so definitely remember the extensions ( in essence driving the crappy sound cards).....didn't want to drift the thread ( an interesting read) ...but " midi music" was sort of bugging me....Ill ignore the term, as that's not really at the heart of this discussion.....

reading this, it sounds like a major fiasco to me that DP are hoping will blow over.... the game was marketed and demoed with the original music. Hoping nate shivers is on the case to interview roger sharpe and get an explanation on what happened?

It was a major fiasco.. I think enough people have come around on the idea it will be fixable for home use and/or willing to wait and see what they come up with.. that we're down to wondering/irritated more about the means vs the ends.. I.e, why are we finding out now (like the apron), etc.... Basically, their communication sucks.. Nobody has argued otherwise.

It would be cool if Nate could have grabbed Jaap and gotten some clarifications.

What is the deal with the apron? I keep hearing it mentioned but no before and after pictures....

Midi triggers sounds, those samples when done pro sound close to the real thing and the samples themselves are recorded instruments and not simulated keyboard sounds. Still nothing compares to real human musicians playing in real time. I'm not in on TBL but would be very dissapointed if I was that and the real songs were no longer being used, music in the film played a major role. Hope it all works out.

I heard the apron isn't a done deal and the cool apron may still make it into the game with the option of a standard apron for those that insist on having cards.

Where did you hear this?

Jaap said they are working on a solution to rectify it. I would love for it to be LE-exclusive.

I just got back from the show and I'm still very in on this pin.

This machine isn't supposed to play fast. It's not that type of game or story. If you require fast loops and a seizure-inducing GUI, buy another game. This pin truly looks, feels, and plays like a 90's B/W, which is exactly why I'm buying it.

The music is non-issue for me because this pin will be in my home, not in a bar. I purchased and own the tracks that will be played under fair use, so there WILL be Creedence and Santana on my machine. This should be the least of your worries.

How long does it take usually for pinball news to post the audio? I'd like to hear all that was said myself vs second hand

Not to start anything but you cut my wife andi waiting to play the machine on the left behind the new Zealand guys playing

From a friend who has inside info

Thanks man. I hope your friend's info pans out and the original apron remains at least an option for Early Achievers yet!

NSNL just out here are a couple things also some pics of proto vs production machines...

"And yes... The apron...
One of the things we changed on the production model was the apron... After getting a lot of reactions about the lack of having a place to put score cards on the game we thought it would be better to change the apron back to a 'standard apron'. Well, not completely standard, because the logo would still be on it and it would still have the Achievers Edition plaque...

Since we had a couple of emails regarding this change we will re-discuss this and probably go for a 'keep both worlds happy' solution. When we finalized this we will let you know.

Gameplay videos
Another thing we showed at the seminar were new game play videos. These videos show some features of the software and are completely approved by Universal. They also show clips including all the main characters of the movie including Jeff Bridges, Julianne Moore and John Goodman."

image.pngimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

Man....pics tell a great story.....much work done there....impressive!!!

Incase you havnt seen these vids yet...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hsJqC5osYkE

based on this, and spooky's talk, licensing just sounds like a nightmare (both in what you're allowed to do, and what you're forced to do), and that's not even negotiating the pricing yet. It's no wonder why Williams stuck to a lot of original titles.

I know the "Before" pics might look messy to people. But to me it looks like something I can trace, debug and repair. The after pics are like anything new. If you have a problem you can replace and expensive assembly. Just my opinion.

Whew, I needed this NSN! Reading this thread far from Expo was quite frankly, scaring the shit out of me. I was starting to feel very un-dude. I join those voting yes to the apron options as another who prefers the former prototype apron we were originally sold on.

Looked at some last year videos, getting very happy hearing " dude dude dude.... " and other songs. The music just sucks you into the universum of lebowski.

Looking at videos now.... With the generetic music... Its like they deleted the whole spirit of the game. Whole attraction part has vaporised.

Need to see and hear this when this pin is gold. But man..... This pin is moving backwards instead of forwards.

I give a lot of credit to Jaap. He had to step in/up for Barry, which put a lot of weight on his shoulders. If you watch last year's seminar, you'd think he didn't speak a single word of English. His English was very good and I think he did a great job through their entire hour-long seminar. They took ownership for their mishaps and mistakes over the past year, which takes integrity and humility. There wasn't any arrogance. I saw Jaap engaging with attendees all weekend at the show and during the Pinball Life party. And by sending this morning's NSNL, they took responsibility for not communicating to Achievers prior to the Expo seminar.

Don't listen to the "Chicken Littles" comparing DP to JPop or any other sketchy project. It's far from reality. These guys have taken a beating on all levels, yet they're still ticking. First there was Philgate, then Jaap lost his mother, and now Barry is currently dealing with a sick mother. The losers who accuse DP of wrongdoing should become human for 1 minute and put yourself in their shoes. Any humane person knows how painful it can be when a loved one is close to death or has just passed away. I wish the naysayers would STFU, especially when they don't have money on the table.