(Topic ID: 150775)

Freeplay40 Ramps


By Freeplay40

3 years ago



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#3201 4 months ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

I can do that one with the current. Black rose is probably next up for me to do, so I will probably do both. At the moment, I am working on the molds for Black Belt, Transporter and we slipped in the one ramp for Radical that dung assisted with. The Radical ramp was cast a few days ago, the Black Belt ramp and the Transporter ramp cover were cast last night. I am working on the other two Transporter Ramps today. I hope to have those cast in just a couple days. Once those are all cast, they need to cure for 12-14 days. Once cured and finished I will produce all of them. Another game I want to work on is Demo Man. I can presently reproduce two of the three ramps. The third will require the new heater and will be one of the first ramps up when I get the heater done.

Glad it can be done with your current set up. Mine blew out at the left entrance like that also, luckily I found the 2 other parts when I shopped it and put it all back together.

I'd be in on the Demo Man Ramps also mine are fine but anything can happen with ramps that are 20+ years old at any time.

#3202 4 months ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

Not sure on the material, but not steel or aluminum and yes way too expensive, unless you are set up to do it already. My son has something in mind and I can't remember at the moment what it is. Contracting that out is very expensive and you still have to come up with the technical data to program it. Would make sense if you doing production like the old days where you were producing 10 to 20 thousand units. These days we have to consider only maybe 100 for runs at best and far fewer than that on some. While I do "runs" for new releases and some of the stuff I have already done like Guns 'N Roses (4 runs!), since I do everything, I can basically make ramps on demand. I really keep very little inventory. Making the molds is the hardest and most time consuming part. Even though I am actually going to recast what @dung did for me, he still did 80%-90% of the work. Forming is the easiest part and then finishing the ramps is a challenge as well and where you suffer the most losses. On the last run of GnR I threw out 26 G ramps.

Regarding materials, Radical! ramps seem to be thicker than most ramps. Will you use thicker stock and will that pose any problems with heating and trimming?

#3203 4 months ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

I would hope that some of the original molds still exist.
Does someone currently own the ramp molds to these original games?
Will they share them with you or let you copy them?
Regardless glad to see someone making this happen on their own steam.
We appreciate all the time your putting into this. Wish there
were a few others that could help jump into the fray.
If I had the space for the machine or home made rig I'd be in.
I've been hoping 3d printing would evolve to the point we could
print some of these. For now my focus is PF resto.

There are original molds still in existence for many games. When Pinball Inc sold to Fantasy Pinball, a significant portion of the purchase was for the molds. Rick at Planetary still occasionally resurrects an original mold. Seems most of the molds still in existence are for Bally/Williams games. The original molds were monstrosities designed for large production runs and not suitable for a non-commercial forming machine and they did not have CNC back I the day so often there are jigs associated to the ramps to facilitate the cut-out. These days, even the production runs for new games pales in comparison to the runs of ~20k games likes Adam's Family. Creating a mold out of solid aluminum would simply be cost prohibitive with the demand these days. I do this because I like to and frankly because the community needs these.

I just received an email from dung saying he was disappointed that his mold only made it through one run...I've been there and I have at least two ramp molds made of Bondo and wood that I still use. Not as durable as the steel reinforced ceramic I use, but still an effective medium. Last night I cast a mold for Black Belt. The donor ramp was actually a prototype yellow one. This is clearly one of the very first formed Black Belt ramps formed as the finish on that ramp is frankly horrible indicating that is was made out of something soft in the game design phase. When I say the finish is horrible, the ramp itself has a very rough finish so is not clear as we would expect. Will require the entire mold surface to be smoothed before I can mold them. The one form I got from the mold dung provided yielded an almost perfect specimen and will require very minor finishing. The process I just went through with dung greatly accelerated a ramp to production.

So, you CAD guys out there....Can you scan a ramp then CNC it out of wood-like medium? Scanning would be cool, otherwise I assume you would need to program the entire ramp. I've been intrigued by the CNC process, but just don't think it is worth it for me to take the time to learn and again is it worth the time considering the size of runs. gotta' be an expert out there. 3D printing is another possibility, not for making finish ramps, but possibly for making proto-type ramp shapes that can be formed one time to produce a form that can then be cast. We actually tried a 3d print with my son and it sort of worked. Many of the 3D printed stuff I've seen are not really very strong and the machine I use has incredible power and can just a 3D print piece.....It has even cracked a few ceramics. Possibly a good idea for a new game, but again, how much time does it take to program it to reproduce an existing ramp.

Rambling now...back to work on the Transporter ramps.

#3204 4 months ago
Quoted from tdddddd:

Regarding materials, Radical! ramps seem to be thicker than most ramps. Will you use thicker stock and will that pose any problems with heating and trimming?

Guessing the original Radical ramps were .187" thick. Not sure what type of plastic was used on the originals. I will be using .150" PETG which should be sufficient. As far as thicker material, I can easily form up to 1/4" plastic.

#3205 4 months ago

Thanks for the explanation on Ramp molds. I had no idea they made steel molds.

#3206 4 months ago

I am still holding out for Demolition Man ramps. The previous owner of my father's machine tried to "fix" the ramps with a hot air gun. It warped all three ramps plus the cryoclaw disc, so the game is only half playable.

#3207 4 months ago

I'm over here clenching everything I have working on a repair of my JP ramp, trying not to make it worse or look like crap.

#3208 4 months ago

I'm certainly no expert on 3D printing, but if I had the object files I could certainly run off some prototype prints for you to use.

I don't have access to a 3D scanner, but know a few friends quite good at Fusion 360.

#3209 4 months ago
Quoted from pb456:

I'm certainly no expert on 3D printing, but if I had the object files I could certainly run off some prototype prints for you to use.
I don't have access to a 3D scanner, but know a few friends quite good at Fusion 360.

That's the problem with the original ramps...I don't think data files exist on them.

#3210 4 months ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

Thanks for the explanation on Ramp molds. I had no idea they made steel molds.

I don't think they were ever made of steel....Aluminum is what they were made of. In my ceramic molds I actually use rebar for added strength. On another note...the Black Belt I cast last night was a total of 28 pounds mixed. The mix rate on the ceramic I use is all done by weight. 1 pound of water and 3 pounds of the powder. So Black Belt was 21 pounds of powder and 7 pounds of water. You actually gauge the cure of the ceramic by it's weight. In theory over time, the Black Belt ramp will weigh close to 21 pounds when fully cured.

#3211 4 months ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

That's the problem with the original ramps...I don't think data files exist on them.

I'm going to verify, but I do know someone who can 3D scan and clean up the objects - but they were telling me clear objects will not scan correctly.

Meaning, the ramp must be painted before it can be scanned.

I can try results with some garbage ramp and see how it goes...? If you have one for me to try that would be great, I don't have anything like that around here.

#3212 4 months ago

Do you need another black belt ramp as example or are you good? Couldn’t tell by last post

#3213 4 months ago
Quoted from pb456:

I'm going to verify, but I do know someone who can 3D scan and clean up the objects - but they were telling me clear objects will not scan correctly.

If you have a clear object, you simply dust it with powder so it makes it opaque. Ramps really aren't that hard to model up, I did it for BTTF but I can't seem to find a reasonable vacuum former vendor (and I know freeplay can't handle a ramp that big yet):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bttf-club-whoa-this-is-heavy/page/5#post-4079139

Even 3d printed it in chunks to verify fit:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bttf-club-whoa-this-is-heavy/page/6#post-4185632

#3214 4 months ago
Quoted from djsolzs:

Do you need another black belt ramp as example or are you good? Couldn’t tell by last post

No, but thanks. We're good...already cast.

#3215 4 months ago

Count me in for Demo Man ramps! Loving seeing all the work you've done

#3216 4 months ago
Quoted from pb456:

I'm going to verify, but I do know someone who can 3D scan and clean up the objects - but they were telling me clear objects will not scan correctly.
Meaning, the ramp must be painted before it can be scanned.
I can try results with some garbage ramp and see how it goes...? If you have one for me to try that would be great, I don't have anything like that around here.

Honestly, I'm just curious. Since I will likely never pursue it on my own, I can't see adding another party to the process that I can already do myself without a 3D printed mold since I have access to the ramps already. While 3D printing has come a long way, at least plastic is not a good material for a durable mold. However, I do see where the home brewers who would likely model their ramp and print their ramp which could then in turn be made into a mold.

#3217 4 months ago

I have most of the original Williams molds. Most are made of Aluminum or cast aluminum and are water cooled. Marc can make a mold for far less cost than mailing my monsters up and back.

#3218 4 months ago
Quoted from lrosent345:

I have most of the original Williams molds. Most are made of Aluminum or cast aluminum and are water cooled. Marc can make a mold for far less cost than mailing my monsters up and back.

Cool, any chance you can post a picture of one? Would love to see what they look like. Thanks!

#3219 4 months ago
Quoted from lrosent345:

I have most of the original Williams molds. Most are made of Aluminum or cast aluminum and are water cooled. Marc can make a mold for far less cost than mailing my monsters up and back.

Larry how much longer (and please do not say 2-4 weeks because that statements been made for over a year) do we have to wait for the new boulder set for white water? You have countless people who DESPERATELY need these and you are the only one who can make these.

#3220 4 months ago
Quoted from lrosent345:

I have most of the original Williams molds. Most are made of Aluminum or cast aluminum and are water cooled. Marc can make a mold for far less cost than mailing my monsters up and back.

do you have a list of new ramps that have been made since you purchased the business from pinball inc?

It would be great to have your own thread to publish these as they are coming and to keep the community updated.

#3221 4 months ago
Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

Larry how much longer (and please do not say 2-4 weeks because that statements been made for over a year) do we have to wait for the new boulder set for white water? You have countless people who DESPERATELY need these and you are the only one who can make these.

There’s hope. We got the WCS ramps finally

#3222 4 months ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

Honestly, I'm just curious. Since I will likely never pursue it on my own, I can't see adding another party to the process that I can already do myself without a 3D printed mold since I have access to the ramps already. While 3D printing has come a long way, at least plastic is not a good material for a durable mold. However, I do see where the home brewers who would likely model their ramp and print their ramp which could then in turn be made into a mold.

If someone were to make a ramp out of PLA, PETG, or ABS from a 3D printer, this could be made into a mold?

I remember back in high school when we made molds out of foam or other material and made a sand mold and an inlet for the molten aluminum - is the process from PLA/PETG/ABS similar?

#3223 4 months ago

Let's not hijack Mark's topic.

#3224 4 months ago
Quoted from lrosent345:

Let's not hijack Mark's topic.

I agree! Pls go start a tread with ramps you have available, have added to availability, and are planning on adding. It would be a huge service to your customer base to have this form of communication on the largest pinball forum in the planet.

#3225 4 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I agree! Pls go start a tread with ramps you have available, have added to availability, and are planning on adding. It would be a huge service to your customer base to have this form of communication on the largest pinball forum in the planet.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-ramps-by-starship-fantasy#post-4978269

Looks like he did.

#3226 4 months ago

Any chance you are going to make a space shuttle ramp? Mine just cracked all the way across the bottom portion of the ramp, making it top of my list to find a replacement for. So far it hasn't affected play. But I am kind of afraid to have my league play the machine these days.

20190526_220417 (resized).jpg
#3227 4 months ago
Quoted from Jabbles180:

Any chance you are going to make a space shuttle ramp? Mine just cracked all the way across the bottom portion of the ramp, making it top of my list to find a replacement for. So far it hasn't affected play. But I am kind of afraid to have my league play the machine these days.[quoted image]

It's one of the first ones for the new heater.

#3228 4 months ago

Concerning the Radical left ramp....I am working on several molds right now for various games. The molds will take time to cure and finish, but Radical will easily be the first one I can begin reproductions on. I anticipated using a plastic .150" thick, but the question was raised that the original was a very thick plastic....actually .187". I do not use this thickness for anything else so I will begin a list for these using the thicker .187" material. I expect I will handle the first 8-10 with the first full sheet and then gauge interest for a second run.

Causally, on my list at the moment is:
FanofPinball
Whysnow (2?)
hisokajp

Ramp will be plastic only with new entrance flap. There are two light domes and twist sockets on the original ramp. I considered attaching new of both but have not located either part. On your original ramp, these two light domes/twist socket mounts are riveted to the ramp. If sent to me I will rivet for free, but in this case since there is no ball travel involved, there is no reason why these could not be attached with screws and nuts to the new ramp. Expecting cost to be $120-$130 plus shipping.

If interested, let me know and I will add you to the list.

#3229 4 months ago

confirming I will take 2

ryanwanger I assume you want one and also still have the google doc of people ISO radical ramps?

#3230 4 months ago

I would like 1.

#3231 4 months ago

Count me in for 1.

#3232 4 months ago

I'd be in on space shuttle ramp as well!

#3233 4 months ago

Assuming the list includes the one for myself and the spare machine I used to make the mold?

#3234 4 months ago

Hey Mark, do you still have Comet corkscrew and cycle jump ramps available?

Your work is an inspiration, thank you!

#3235 4 months ago

worth mention that I will take 2 of every Radical ramp

*when you get the new heater going

#3236 4 months ago
Quoted from Smurrill1:

Count me in for Demo Man ramps! Loving seeing all the work you've done

Count me in for (2) two sets of Demolition Man Ramps(my personal pin and one sitting in the basement with no ramps) and know 3 others that need at least two badly and would buy sets.

Thanks, Brad

#3237 4 months ago
Quoted from dung:

Assuming the list includes the one for myself and the spare machine I used to make the mold?

Top of the list!

#3238 4 months ago
Quoted from Leeezard:

Hey Mark, do you still have Comet corkscrew and cycle jump ramps available?
Your work is an inspiration, thank you!

Sending pm

#3239 4 months ago

This ramp is Gorgeous! Thanks again Mark!

20190619_232258 (resized).jpg
20190619_232310 (resized).jpg

#3240 4 months ago

Massive kudos to freeplay40 ! He came through for me today, invited me to his house and made a Radical plastic protector in like 20 minutes! super cool saying all his installation and listening to his experience, definitely an artist!

#3241 4 months ago
Quoted from Jabbles180:

Mine just cracked

You can get a ramp protector set from Cliffy for that -- you'll have to drill a wider post hole to fit the modern post that's an 8 not a 6. It's easy to do.
Here's my playfield getting a set:
http://www.passionforpinball.com/wip.htm
http://www.passionforpinball.com/WIP/Shuttle-Inst-010.jpg
-mof

#3242 4 months ago

freeplay40
how to store the ramps (longtime)?
as i´m putting the ramps on the shelf for backup, any advise?

for now there are in the cardboard boxes they where shipped in (removed the bubblewrap) in a dry, a ca 20°C environment (about 68°F )

#3243 4 months ago
Quoted from DorkVonWaterfall:

freeplay40
how to store the ramps (longtime)?
as i´m putting the ramps on the shelf for backup, any advise?
for now there are in the cardboard boxes they where shipped in (removed the bubblewrap) in a dry, a ca 20°C environment (about 68°F )

Maybe a thin wipe of wax or oil on the ramp flaps to hinder rust.

#3244 4 months ago
Quoted from DorkVonWaterfall:

freeplay40
how to store the ramps (longtime)?
as i´m putting the ramps on the shelf for backup, any advise?
for now there are in the cardboard boxes they where shipped in (removed the bubblewrap) in a dry, a ca 20°C environment (about 68°F )

Ive had ramps for years....
I just make sure they are in big bags, then wrap extra bag around ramp. Then bubble wrap, then the box they showed up in.
No wax,or oil or any products, any product can harden or color over time.

#3245 4 months ago
Quoted from DorkVonWaterfall:

freeplay40
how to store the ramps (longtime)?
as i´m putting the ramps on the shelf for backup, any advise?
for now there are in the cardboard boxes they where shipped in (removed the bubblewrap) in a dry, a ca 20°C environment (about 68°F )

Good question and I am certainly no expert on long term storage. Personally, I would not apply anything to the ramp plastic. If they are colored they are dyed and who knows what could interact with the dye or the plastic over time. I have some colored ramp failures sitting in my garage for a couple years now with no apparent changes. I would wrap them in soft cloth and place them in a plastic bag. Protect from excess heat and sunlight. Fort the flaps, I generally clean them with WD40 before I install them. For long term storage, I would spray a shot of WD40 on a paper towel and wipe, then dry the surface of the flap trying not to get any on the plastic. The WD in WD40 stands for water displacement.....the 40 means the 40ith formula attempt.

#3246 4 months ago

The ramp flap is what I was referring to.

#3247 4 months ago
Quoted from chad:

The ramp flap is what I was referring to.

Roger!

#3248 3 months ago

I am not sure if this is the right place, but I would love to buy a new subway for my Data East Jurassic Park, and a ramp too if possible, but definitely the subway!

#3249 3 months ago
Quoted from spent85:

I am not sure if this is the right place, but I would love to buy a new subway for my Data East Jurassic Park, and a ramp too if possible, but definitely the subway!

+1 for JP subway.

#3250 3 months ago

+1 for space shuttle! With the Hardtops out there the Ramp is the missing part for a lot of us. Transparent blue would be pretty cool.

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