(Topic ID: 237803)

Frankenstein Flipper Sticks / Locks Up Intermittently DataEast/Sega


By pfister

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 83 days ago by PinMario
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 months ago

#mary-shellys-frankenstein is a 3 flipper game. Main-Left Flipper, Main-Right Flipper, Top-Right Flipper. The Main-Right Flipper (controlled by a two step leaf contact - see pictures ) intermittently stays charged and locked in the UP position. This definitely an electrical issue BUT it is also intermittent issue. It happens maybe 5% of the time and seems to be triggered more often by holding the flipper down for an extended time (2-5 seconds). The other 2 flippers work perfect 100% of the time.

This is what I know:
- The flipper coil area seems in really good condition.
- The leaf contact might not be in the greatest condition, however, the top-right flipper works 100%
- The circuit board looks like it's been repaired. All the red lights come on with the flipper contacts hit.

other notes,
Once the flipper locks, simply taping the flipper button 1-5 times, unlocks it. When comparing the the left flipper button to the right. There is significant black on the right button (you can kind of see this in the picture) -- maybe this is hinting to something.

Does this seem like a flipper control board issue? leaf contact issue? flipper coil area issue?

Resource Links:
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index2.htm?fbclid=IwAR2blu1yv-_VrmblY99mKbbSlWG3nFYMR24afbIU_iCDcHrIIjYDrzc26rw#flip0

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#2 3 months ago

Are you sure it's energized?

When you turn the game off, does the flipper immediately drop?

If it doesn't, It could be as simple as a magnetized coil stop, or a damaged plunger. Important to determine if it's mechanical or electrical and you haven't provided enough information to narrow it down to either.

#3 3 months ago

Very sure it's energized. When the game turns off, the flipper immediately drops. Thanks for replying crazylevi

#4 3 months ago
Quoted from pfister:

Very sure it's energized. When the game turns off, the flipper immediately drops. Thanks for replying crazylevi

I had an issue once on a High Speed where the flipper would lock on and release in a similar way. The switch in the cabinet was so old and corroded it would literally stick together and pressing the button a few times would usually loosen it up and it would separate again so I replaced the switch. Try watching the switch in the cabinet when you press the flipper button in and see what happens.

#5 3 months ago

Shorted transistor on the flipper board?

#6 3 months ago

grantopia I have watched the leaf switch very closely and the contact is totally open ( no contact at all ) while the flipper is energized. This is leading me to the board, like 0geist0 might be suggesting with the shorted transistor.

Here is a link to a video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/669Mzp4LobzNMckd8 -- In this video you can see me touching the leaf contact with a screw driver on the right.. and if you look over at the flipper control board, you can see the control board is lighting up red when the contact is made.. Meanwhile, this entire time, the top flipper is locked-up.

0geist0, if is was a shorted transistor, does the intermittent behavior make sense? For example, 90%+ of the time, the flipper is working properly.

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#7 3 months ago
Quoted from pfister:

0geist0, if is was a shorted transistor, does the intermittent behavior make sense? For example, 90%+ of the time, the flipper is working properly.

Anything is possible. I just had an intermittent display problem on my Flight 2000, that turned out to be a shorted transistor.

#8 3 months ago

0geist0 - if you're correct, my options are (A) replace the entire board or (B) to fix the transistor. This is my first post and first dive into fixing something..here's a picture of my flipper board -- The Red L1 Light is the one that lights up when I hit the right flipper. What areas of the board should I begin testing / replacing??

Link to Picture of Flipper Board: https://photos.app.goo.gl/98cP9CgHb4RYVYQW8

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#9 3 months ago

Just to update this topic. I ordered a new board. The old board has a lot of blistering traces, which make it a higher risk board to try an repair by replacing some of the transistors, etc. https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-5076-00

#10 3 months ago

Well, I replaced the flipper board with a new one and the issue is still happening.
Here's a video: https://photos.app.goo.gl/S3Pf42fDsMrMVJPS8

You can see me taking my finger off the button and the flipper stays up.. and pushing on the flipper to show its energized. When you turn off the machine, the flipper goes down immediately so its definately electrical.

So.. something is causing the coil on the right flipper to stay energized. Any advice or things I should check??

#11 3 months ago

Check the flipper diode. If it's bad or broken it will energize like that.

#12 3 months ago

Shudel, if the flipper diode is bad or broken it will energize intermittently (vs all the time) like that?? I'll look into the diode. Another idea I had is maybe it could be the capacitor on the flipper switch..possibly it is bad or broken as well. Since I dont have a replacement capacitor, is it required for short term testing and trouble shooting? (I think I read it serves an important purpose to limit sparks) but that it wasnt required.

#13 3 months ago

Can you test the diodes while they are connected to the coil? Because I'm getting 0.0v both ways .. on both flipper diodes.

#14 3 months ago

you need to disconnect one Side of diode to get accurate test,I would just replace it and eliminate that as a possible problem.

#15 3 months ago

pintime schudel5 do you need the capacitor in the flipper switch for short term testing? I read it wasnt critical since it's mainly there to diffuse sparks and improve the wear on the leaf contacts.. Since this is my first pin I dont have a lot of extra parts laying around ... but I will soon but I'd love to get to the bottom of this this flipper issue.

#16 3 months ago

Just replace the diode. There are no caps as the EOS and flipper switch is low voltage in conjunction with a single wound coil. All high power and low power switching is done on the flipper board.

#17 3 months ago

I don't think it's the diode on the coil.. I traced the issue to the board behind the back glass.. IF the flipper is locked and I disconnect the cable harness in this picture, then the flipper immediately releases. Looking at this diagram and the circuits on the board, I'm not sure exactly what I should be looking to replace. The top Orange/Purple wire is the right flipper, the next Orange/Blue wire is the left flipper. schudel5 pintime 0geist0

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#18 3 months ago

If you are pulling the coil connector off it makes sense the flipper would de-energize. Did you actually test the diode? If it's happening periodically I would suspect the diode or the leaf switch in the cabinet sticking or making contact somehow as you mentioned pushing the button will also release it.

#19 3 months ago

Have you tried to disconnect the EOS switch? Frankenstein doesn't need it because it uses an internal timer. I once had trouble when trying the EOS switch (as you do on other machines) and had to disconnect it.

#20 3 months ago

pinmario I just replaced the leaf contact/capacitor AND the diode in the coil... now my issue isnt intermittent.. the moment I touch the right flipper button, the right flipper locks up (energized).. only way to unlock is to turn off the machine.. meanwhile, the top right flipper and left flipper are working perfect.

#21 3 months ago

Since you already changed the flipperboard, you could try to switch the wiring of the left to the right flipper (mark them well to restore correctly afterwards). If the problem moves to the left, you need to follow the signal to the mainboard and check the signals. A bad transistor is possible, but maybe the problem is in the logic control. If the problem remains, check the contact AND wiring of the flipperbutton. Have you tried to disconnect the connector of the button when the coil is energized?

#22 3 months ago

pinside if I disconnect the flipper connector behind the back glass. The flipper de-energizes immediately.. if I disconnect the EOS side of the flipper board, the flipper remains energized. Are you suggesting I switch the 2 orange wires (left flipper /right flipper) behind the back glass?? That would be pretty easy versus rewiring a lot of connections.. Since I just replaced the flipper leaf contact, I'm thinking that the flipper button might be OK, especially since the flipper stays un-energized until the button is pushed.

#23 3 months ago

Just thinking if you swap the coil conenction, and/or the buttons you can determine if the problem is in the backbox or not. Best to find the fault before changing parts. Where you swich it is up to you to find the easiest way

#24 3 months ago

pinmario I did hook a meter up to the locking flipper coil and its stabilizing at 5v.. not the higher 50v I suspected. The power holding the flipper up is still pretty significant. I can't budge it with a more than moderate push. Does this make sense?

#25 3 months ago

After the initial flipping, the flipper falls back to a hold voltage just to keep them up for as long as you push the button (most of the older pins use the eos for this) This is enough to hold the flipper up, but it doesn't take much effort to push it back down. According to pinwikki is should be 50V and 8V, so yours should be ok, you can find this article and others here :
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Flippers

(I still think it's an electronics problem)

1 week later
#26 89 days ago

pinmario I replaced the TIP122 transistor (seen next to the orange wire in past posts) with a comparable NTE261 (https://g.co/kgs/yZHZfR) because it was at my local electrical supply shop.. however when I turn the machine on, this thing get super hot! The other transistors are cool. I'm always good to turn the machine off immediately. To fix this, I went on mouser and have more TIP122's getting delivered today. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking the TIP122 really is the same transistors as the NTE261 and nothing may change.. is there anything else I should be considering at to why the transistor gets super hot so fast?

#27 89 days ago

I never used a NTE261 but looking at the datasheet, it looks quit the same.
Does it get hot after just switching on or after you pushed a flipperbutton? In the first case maybe you made a short on the board with the replacement or perhaps a connector is positioned wrong?

#28 88 days ago

pinmario it gets hit immediately after turning it on. I'm about to replace the transistor. I'll update you and take extra special care with those connections

#29 84 days ago

Final Update on this issue: It appears to have been the transistor on the main board. Q2 + Q8 is what I replaced (0geist0 nailed it! ). Also ended up replacing a fuse because while experimenting with polarity and diode directions, i must have blown the 50v fuse. ( Check you fuses people!! ) I figured the fuse issue out once I had both flippers working well but everything was operating in low voltage mode. Overall, great experience on pinside. This is my first post and I'm really appreciative of the community. special thank you to pinmario as you definately hung in there with multiple days of back and forth messages. Thank you and goodluck out there. Hopefully this post helps someone.

#30 83 days ago

Great you got it working again, i hope you enjoy the game as much as i do.

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