(Topic ID: 172933)

Frankenstein DMD scrambling issue

By CUJO

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by mad_carl
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

I was at a friends house that has a Frankenstein pinball.

Recently, he told me the DMD started to double image, scramble, jump around during play, even attract mode.

I thought I took a good minute video today but it appears to be just a few seconds but maybe it'll be good enough.

I burned new graphics ROMS based on his description of the issue but when I got there, I could see that wasn't the issue.
He also bought a new display cable. No difference.

I think it may be the crystal oscillator module on the display driver board.

Anyone have any ideas?

#2 7 years ago

Bump..sorry the video wasn't longer but the pic jumps all over the place.
Reminds me of an old 1971 TV set with horizontal hold issues..
LOL

#3 7 years ago

Did you reseat all of the ribbon cables and not just the one to/from the dmd? I believe there may be one on the cpu to the display driver board too.

#4 7 years ago

I'll check with him. I know he replaced the one from the DMD to the driver board (all on the same panel).

#5 7 years ago

Here is a link to a longer video of the jumpy display.
Yes, He swapped in the other ribbon cable from a Twister he has and no change.

#6 7 years ago

Both ribbons are good
Did you reburn all the roms??
I have seen this in person and its seems either a rom issue or the display itself. Swap the display and see what happens

#7 7 years ago

Hey Larry, Ken was able to burn one of the roms you gave me successfully and I replaced it. The other one we cleaned the pins with fine sandpaper and reinstalled. I don't have another large dmd to try to swap it with.

2 weeks later
#8 7 years ago

Bump..Does anyone feel the crystal oscillator may have gone bad on the graphics driver board?
Anyone else ever experience what my friend is in that video I posted and what it turned out to be?
Thanks!

#9 7 years ago

Everyone hates me?? Has anyone ever seen this issue before and care to share thoughts?
Thanks!

#10 7 years ago

You did verify all the roms are good ?? All 3??? The 2 display and the 1 CPU? You checked all the voltages to the display and the display driver board and they are correct ???
I know there is one line out on his display already.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from gameover1173:

You did verify all the roms are good ?? All 3??? The 2 display and the 1 CPU? You checked all the voltages to the display and the display driver board and they are correct ???
I know there is one line out on his display already.

No,
I was only able to burn one of the two EPROMS you gave Shawn.
One had data errors when trying to burn it. I erased it and tried two more times..same results.
I did swap out the EPROM in his game with the one I burned ok and it worked, but same "scrambling" display.
That's all I have done as far as helping him with it to date.
I told him if he got another EPROM, I would burn the other Video Eprom.

I think it's the crystal oscillator on the display board gone bad or it's associated circuit.
I hope it's not the display (DMD) itself that's going bad...

#12 7 years ago

Verify the 2 video roms are good first
Did you verify all the voltages going to the display are good??

#13 7 years ago

I doubt it will be ROMs. Every chance it is either ribbon cables or the RAM that is associated with the DMD drive.

Just replace the ribbon cables - they are 20 years old and well passed their use by date. They get corrosion inside and you can't see it.

#14 7 years ago

Already changed the ribbons

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from gameover1173:

Already changed the ribbons

"He swapped in the other ribbon cable from a Twister he has and no change."

If you mean this it might not be good enough - I would buy a full new set of cables to eliminate them for good.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

I doubt it will be ROMs. Every chance it is either ribbon cables or the RAM that is associated with the DMD drive.
Just replace the ribbon cables - they are 20 years old and well passed their use by date. They get corrosion inside and you can't see it.

He already swapped video cables with new ones. I didn't inspect the header pins to see if there was any corrosion thou as I wasn't there.

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

"He swapped in the other ribbon cable from a Twister he has and no change."
If you mean this it might not be good enough - I would buy a full new set of cables to eliminate them for good.

One of them he bought new.
The other one he swapped in from his Twister. Same results withthe scrambled DMD display.

I agree. I do not think it is a ROM issue.

Still thinking the crystal oscillator is bad but don't know how to test it.

#18 7 years ago

Ok great
You don't test a crystal oscillator
You test the voltages around it to make sure it has good voltage
If voltages are good then you have a bad crystal oscillator
Time to pull a schematic

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from gameover1173:

Ok great
You don't test a crystal oscillator
You test the voltages around it to make sure it has good voltage
If voltages are good then you have a bad crystal oscillator
Time to pull a schematic

I have an original Frankenstein manual. Will look when time permits.

#20 7 years ago

Thanks guys. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this soon.

#21 7 years ago

Are the RAM chips in a socket on the display board? Try new 62256 RAMs. Looks like it uses two (thats a lot of video ram compared to other systems).

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Are the RAM chips in a socket on the display board? Try new 62256 RAMs. Looks like it uses two (thats a lot of video ram compared to other systems).

Thanks. It's PINFAN4 LIFE's Franky.
Shawn, time to order some ram per Barakand.

or at least pull the two out (hopefully socketed) clean pins, reseat first.

2 weeks later
#23 7 years ago

Update:
I ran a DMD Display test on Frankenstein.
All the modes run perfect EXCEPT the scan with all the DMD unlit, scanning from top to bottom, horizontal line at a time.
As the scan gets about halfway done, the lines scramble all over the place.

If the DMD is FULLY LIT UP, the same scan runs fine horizontally from top to bottom.

Does this added info shed any light on what has failed here?

2 weeks later
#24 7 years ago

Thanks for posting, Ken. Still looking for an answer to this one. Already have been through the usual suspects, but this is a strange one.

Anyone have any other ideas not mentioned yet? Please let us know. Thanks.

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from PinFan4Life:

Thanks for posting, Ken. Still looking for an answer to this one. Already have been through the usual suspects, but this is a strange one.
Anyone have any other ideas not mentioned yet? Please let us know. Thanks.

Did you replace the 622256 RAM(s) at least swap the two around if they are in sockets. DE/Sega usually put the large RAM in sockets.

3 years later
#26 3 years ago

Not to dig up the past here, but I'm having the same issue with my dmd on Maverick . Did you ever get this resolved?

Tried resetting all the ribbons/connectors. Checked voltages back to the big filter cap/BR/fuse in the backbox, and reflow solder on the crystal (X1) and the square IC at U7 as I've read others mention it was an issue in another thread. No change.

barakandl

Quoted from barakandl:

Did you replace the 622256 RAM(s) at least swap the two around if they are in sockets. DE/Sega usually put the large RAM in sockets.

My controller doesn't have socketed 622256 RAMs so I can't easily switch them to test, and I'm having a hard time tracking the appropriate IC down. I'm seeing two options on Digikey.ca, 55ns and 70ns write cycles. Not sure of the original spec.

Also, I poked around with a logic probe (very amateurishly), and found pin3 on the large 68B45 (U8) to have no signal. Not sure if this is intended or not.

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