(Topic ID: 279687)

FPII Solenoids Not Firing

By JakeJones07

3 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Waxon
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

I am new to the pinball world and recently picked up a FPII and it’s worked great for the last few months. However, I accidentally left it on for about 15 hours.

I can start a new game (ball gets kicked up to the plunger and games score correctly. However, flippers, pop bumpers, and sling solenoids will not fire (ball lock eject does work). I have 60ish volts on the flippers and 30v on the other solenoids.All fuses check OK and I reseated all driver board connectors.

The only other symptom I can determine is the board diagnostics says error “9” which corresponds to an issue the the coin door, memory protect fault, or IC19. DMM says Coins door works and game seems to remember settings. So I think this might be a red herring.

Anyone have an idea on what I can check next? Maybe a ground someplace or header to reflow?

Edit: I reviewed the device manual in more detail. It looks like the attached connector is suspect. I’ll reflow here. Any idea where ground is returned?

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#2 3 years ago

look what you can do is with a cable test each tip 122, you ground it for a moment, this will make the solenoids go down or do their function, if they do their function and there is no problem, Do not worry that the tracks of the card or the wiring are bad, if the selenoids do not work then if they should be changed, also try to overheat the pins or change the transistors, I can send you a photo of which are the transistors that really have use in case you use them

#3 3 years ago

These are for bumpers and kickers

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#4 3 years ago

This are usted for outhole, ball ramp thrower, eject hole y flash lamp

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#5 3 years ago

And the last ones that are below, are for the blue relay, which serves to flash the lights in general, blocked the door and the tumbre

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#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

look what you can do is with a cable test each tip 122, you ground it for a moment, this will make the solenoids go down or do their function, if they do their function and there is no problem, Do not worry that the tracks of the card or the wiring are bad, if the selenoids do not work then if they should be changed, also try to overheat the pins or change the transistors, I can send you a photo of which are the transistors that really have use in case you use them

I’ll give this a try. Which leg of the tip would’ve I jump to ground?

EDIT: Looking at other posts, it’s the tab I ground. I’ll give this a try.

#7 3 years ago

I was able to ground the bumper and sling tipps, and they all fire when grounded. However, they don’t fire in solenoid test mode.

Another symptom, I don’t seem to have power on the flipper buttons.

Any idea what to test next? Maybe an ic controlling the tipps?

#8 3 years ago

Looking at the wiring diagram and solenoid schematic page 2, the switch triggered solenoids are controlled here.

IC6 should be tested and confirmed working.

Do you have a logic probe? It's possible to confirm that IC6 is bad or working with a logic probe.

Start a game, probe the output pins of IC6 at pins 3, 8, 11, and 6 while simultaneously closing the switches of left and right slings, and the pops. Any output changes at those pins?

If IC6 checks out, move on to testing IC8, IC9 and IC7 with logic probe.

switch-trigger-solenoid (resized).JPGswitch-trigger-solenoid (resized).JPG
#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Spybryon:

Looking at the wiring diagram and solenoid schematic page 2, the switch triggered solenoids are controlled here.
IC6 should be tested and confirmed working.
Do you have a logic probe? It's possible to confirm that IC6 is bad or working with a logic probe.
Start a game, probe the output pins of IC6 at pins 3, 8, 11, and 6 while simultaneously closing the switches of left and right slings, and the pops. Any output changes at those pins?
If IC6 checks out, move on to testing IC8, IC9 and IC7 with logic probe.[quoted image]

Thanks for the suggestion. I do t have a logic probe. But now sounds like a great time to get one!

While I’m waiting to receive it, I think there might be something else a play. While doing the switch test, I noticed that the pop and sling switches aren’t registering.

I think they show the switches that aren’t working going back to 2J13. If that’s correct, maybe I should be looking at IC6?

However, if inputs are a problem. Why would t my flipper still work?

#10 3 years ago

Special solenoids activation switches are not part of the switch matrix. Their scoring switches are. Move the pop hoop down manually or pull the sling arm out to test the switch matrix scoring switch.

Absolutely nothing to do with them not activating though.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Special solenoids activation switches are not part of the switch matrix. Their scoring switches are. Move the pop hoop down manually or pull the sling arm out to test the switch matrix scoring switch.
Absolutely nothing to do with them not activating though.

Ahh! There’s two switches! I retested. Pop and slings switches are good. Thanks for telling me how to test them!

Looking through the schematics, since my flippers don’t work either, and aren’t controller by IC6. Would it stand to reason there’s a ground issue somewhere in the ground path I highlighted red? If so, should I be able to test continuity from each transistor/tip base to the ground pin of the connector they lead to?
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#12 3 years ago
Quoted from JakeJones07:

Would it stand to reason there’s a ground issue somewhere in the ground path I highlighted red?

It's possible, but since you mentioned the ball lock eject and kicker to the plunger work, that doesn't seem as likely. Unless maybe you left P10 disconnected from J10 on the solenoid board.

With the game off and voltmeter set to ohms, measure continuity from ground strap in the backbox to J10 pins 1 thru 9, all those pins should have low resistance to ground. If that checks out, measure continuity from ground to the emitter legs of all the Tip122 on Q2, Q4, Q6, Q8, Q10, and Q12. I believe that the emitter is the right leg.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Spybryon:

It's possible, but since you mentioned the ball lock eject and kicker to the plunger work, that doesn't seem as likely. Unless maybe you left P10 disconnected from J10 on the solenoid board.
With the game off and voltmeter set to ohms, measure continuity from ground strap in the backbox to J10 pins 1 thru 9, all those pins should have low resistance to ground. If that checks out, measure continuity from ground to the emitter legs of all the Tip122 on Q2, Q4, Q6, Q8, Q10, and Q12. I believe that the emitter is the right leg.

Ground path from emitter looks good on the tips. J10 seems to ground back to PS OK.

The thing that’s getting me is that it’s that whole section the is having problems. No special solenoid works AND flippers don’t work. Certainly multiple components could have failed, I would think that’s less likely.

I’m looking for commons points in this section. The Blanking signal seems to be at 4.6V continuously. MPU does give an error 9. Could this be related?

#14 3 years ago

Have you tested IC6, 7, 8, and 9 with a logic probe?

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Spybryon:

Have you tested IC6, 7, 8, and 9 with a logic probe?

I haven’t yet. Logic Probe is coming tomorrow. I’ll poke more at those then.

#16 3 years ago

I need some help validating what I'm seeing in the schematics.  I'm going to use solenoid 1 as my reference.  Could you someone valid this logic?  

In general in game logic, IC6 pins 1 and 2 should have 5v applied.  This allows pin 3 to be 5V.  IC9 pin 2 would be 5V and pin 3 would be 0V. This results in pin 1 being 0v (as IC9 is a NOR).

When solenoid 1 switch is triggered, IC6 pin 2 will have 0V and pin 1 will still have 5v.  This causes IC9 pin 2 to be 0v resulting in the NOR gate producing 5v at pin one.  This causes the transistor and TIP to create a ground path for the solenoid 1 coil.

Any misses in my summary?

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#17 3 years ago

Yes, that all looks correct.

#18 3 years ago

JakeJones07 How have you been with that problem? Have you already checked if the coils are not inflated? it can be that too,It can even be a connector that is badly placed or rather that it no longer works, if you already know which tip is the one that fires your coils that fail, you can connect a tip of a tip to a voltmeter, I will try to explain it as clearly as possible, For example, on the card, tip 122 is from a bumper, in this case it is from the upper left, you already know which tip goes to this one, you put one tip of the voltmeter to some solenoid wire, and the other The other you put in the tip of the card, if this buzzes is that the connection is correct, check that with the other selenoids that fail, if it was not clear I can make the video where I explain it

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

JakeJones07 How have you been with that problem? Have you already checked if the coils are not inflated? it can be that too,It can even be a connector that is badly placed or rather that it no longer works, if you already know which tip is the one that fires your coils that fail, you can connect a tip of a tip to a voltmeter, I will try to explain it as clearly as possible, For example, on the card, tip 122 is from a bumper, in this case it is from the upper left, you already know which tip goes to this one, you put one tip of the voltmeter to some solenoid wire, and the other The other you put in the tip of the card, if this buzzes is that the connection is correct, check that with the other selenoids that fail, if it was not clear I can make the video where I explain it

Thanks for checking in! I just did a bit a debugging last night, and I think have have narrowed my issue. All the special solenoids seem to fire when I connect their TIPs tab to ground. With a logic probe, I was able to see the special switches trigger on their associated AND Gate.

In my testing I noticed that the GAME UP/GAME OVER signal was high. When tracking back to the NOR gate feeds this signal to the special solenoids, I noticed that IC9 pin 10 is always high even when that inputs are low. I've ordered a new NOR gate and I'll see if that fixes that problem.

If for some reason there is a short that is hold IC9 pin 10s trace high, any idea if I can temporarily short IC9 pin 10 to ground to see if the solenoids start working?

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#20 3 years ago

What you can do is reheat the pins that go to ground and check that the connectors are in their correct place.It may also be that your connector is failing so if you are going to acquire one you can do it, that will make you not change it for some time, The good thing is that you already know that the coils are good and the connection is correct, try to change the tip 122 and the transistor 2n2222a can also be that, I don't remember if I had already told you if you try that, If you have any other questions about what it may be, I can help you, just remember to write me, here is a photo of how the connections are going, It could also be that you have connected a connector where it does not go, this happened to me once and it gave me problems until I checked that everything was where it is connected.

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#21 3 years ago

Consult with my grandfather and indeed you should try to replace the tip (the study all about pinball electronics) you must effectively change the IC9 this circuit was also replaced In my pinball, you can try to change the 6 tips and the circuit, if it sends you a higher voltage it is because it is shorted so the faster you change it the better.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from JakeJones07:

I noticed that IC9 pin 10 is always high even when that inputs are low. I've ordered a new NOR gate and I'll see if that fixes that problem.

If for some reason there is a short that is hold IC9 pin 10s trace high, any idea if I can temporarily short IC9 pin 10 to ground to see if the solenoids start working?

That should be safe I think. A small current would flow to ground through R28 while you do that.

Not that different from when IC9 pin 10 pulls it low (when it's working).

#23 3 years ago

Good news! IC9 was the culprit. The pin 10 gate identified earlier did fail. Ripping out the old IC9 and socketing a new NOR gate fixed the issue.

Thanks everyone for your help!

#24 3 years ago

JakeJones07 Very good that you have solved the problem, anything you can ask us again about anything you need

#25 3 years ago

JakeJones07 This is the number of the circuit you replaced, right?
It is the number SN74LS08N

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#26 3 years ago

The AND IC was good. I replace IC9 with a SN7402N.

Here’s the DigiKey part I used: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/texas-instruments/SN7402N/1575110

#27 3 years ago

My machine has the 7408 I don't know if this affects it, but it has served it very well for as long as it has had it.

#28 3 years ago

I will replace it with the 7402 I already found it in Steren, if it must be the same, or is it not?

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#29 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxon:

I will replace it with the 7402 I already found it in Steren, if it must be the same, or is it not?
[quoted image]

Looks to be the same IC. Intesting you have a AND gate!

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from JakeJones07:

Looks to be the same IC. Intesting you have a AND gate!

Apparently so! I realized that originally the card handles the 7406, but mine brings 7408 for the coils in general, but for the specials the 7402 is the same, I'll change them the same, they are already a bit old

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