(Topic ID: 209681)

Fossil Fuels - is the USA getting left behind?

By vid1900

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Yoski
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#8 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

As of 2017, China has 35% of the world's electricity generating windmills.
Last year, it cancelled 103 coal power plants that had begun construction, and replaced them with solar farms.
And China has 20 nuclear power plants under construction right now. (the US has built one new nuclear plant in the last 20 years).
Even though China is rich with coal, they are clearly moving away from the 12th century fuel.

All I know is what I read on the internet. And the internet says China is choking on coal polluted skies with people moving around wearing masks. Sounds like China got religion.

With regards to nuclear power, It has been 40 years ago when the plan in the U.S. to control nuclear waste generated from nuclear power plants was going to be trucked to Nevada and buried in the Nevada desert. The state of Nevada and Harry Reid waved the middle finger salute and said not in my backyard. So, for the last 40 years, the nuclear waste has been piling up at each power plant with no solution in sight.

I have no idea how China will deal with its nuclear waste, but since it is a communist government it will probably pick a spot for the waste and if it happens to be in your backyard, well, that's just tough shit. "We'll relocate you to where we relocated all of the others who were in the way of Three Gorges Dam.

We, in the U.S. have state's rights. No one wants the waste.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Quoted from vid1900:

How has the USA fallen so far behind, where they once were the leaders in new technology?

I'll take a guess a lot of the regulations we deal with started with a large oil spill in 1969 in California at Santa Barbara.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-santa-barbara-spill-20170428-htmlstory.html

It is food for thought that we lived through the 1973 oil crisis followed by another oil crisis in 1978 and in all of these years maybe we could have been doing the drill-baby-drill thing and Saudi Arabia and Iran would have never been able to "hold us hostage".

One thing leads to another and then Three Mile Island crapped on the nuclear party.

The end result is lots of regulations.

Nuclear power was not helped when cost over runs and corruption during the construction of the power plants was front page news.

China does not have to deal any of the legacy? issues like the U.S.

Those are my guesses.

#55 6 years ago
Quoted from Gunnut40:

I would not mind seeing a few more coal plants a burning. Cheap consistent energy. Plus it helps the local economy around here.

Your post cuts to the heart of the matter. It all boils down to whose ox is being gored. It gets down the comedian Lenny Bruce's observation that a man is as honest as he can afford to be.

We can wax poetic and play all high and mighty about who needs to be doing this or doing that. But at the end of the day it boils down to jobs and money in YOUR pocket. And we all want the other guy to cut back as, "I am sure that I am not part of the problem."

So, we have too much fossil fuel pollution. We need to cut back on our energy usage. OK, who is going to cut back? Who makes the decision that your industry needs to make some cuts. Somebody is going to lose their job.

When someone dies we send flowers. When someone gets sick we send flowers. When we think we are in love we send flowers. We send flowers for all sorts of BS reasons (BS is my opinion). And a few days later the flowers are wilted, dead, and trashed. What a waste of gas? Think how much fuel would be saved if we just let the flowers go. Who needs them?

But then you realize that flowers are a multi-billion dollar business the world around and you would shut down flower shops and the employees who arrange and sell the flowers. The drivers who transport the flowers would be looking for other work. But less driving around delivering flowers means less wear and tear on a delivery vehicle which will need less maintenance which will hit the tire manufactures, companies that make repair parts will take a hit, too. Delivery vehicles, with less wear, will not need to be replaced as often; That takes out the vehicle production factory, the paint manufacturers, the vinyl upholstery business, just to name a few. There go all those jobs for people who worked in the flower industry. And there goes your economy.

The greeting card industry is another one that I think is a waste of energy. The fuel used to produce the paper. The ink used to print the cards. The fuel used to take the card to the landfill.

If you work for the greeting card industry or the flower industry I am sure you are steaming by now. But I could have just as easily hit on school busing as being a tremendous waster of energy with a bunch of school busses blowing polluting diesel fumes all over the neighborhoods.

How about this: It used to be when was doing a brake job and I needed a rubber wheel cylinder cup I could go the auto parts store and buy one rubber cup that the parts store person would pull from a bulk drawer and maybe toss it in a paper sack. But now, thanks to Wall Street, or whoever, I have to buy two rubber cups that are shelved in a plastic bubble pack. I'll use one. One will get lost in a drawer somewhere. And then the plastic bubble pack does its part to take space in the landfill.

I used to be able to buy nails in bulk in a paper sack. Now I have to buy them in a bubble pack. But there are not enough nails in the bubble pack so now I have to buy two bubble packs. We have so much waste in our economy but someone makes a living producing bubble packs.

Do you smoke? I used to. I used a Bic lighter. I used a lot of Bic lighters. And they all went to the landfill. What a waste of space. I should have never gave up my Zippo. But how many people get their employment from the production of Bic lighters that eventually wind up in the landfill?

Well, landfill pollution is less of a problem than coal based air pollution. Really? Who makes that determination?

There are no easy answers to any of this stuff when it comes to the matter of self-survival.

I predict we are a juggernaut that will not stop until we have drilled and used up every last drop of oil, used the last cubic foot of gas, polluted every last stream and river so that nothing will be able to live in the water. We will not stop until we have used it all up.

Natural gas is plentiful right now. But one day we will have used it all up. Then it will be back to coal. And nuclear. And nuclear is not a limitless supply. There is only so much uranium to mine.

#89 6 years ago
Quoted from Deez:

This + 1. The crony capitalism of the US govt picking winners and staffing the regulatory agencies with the people that used to head the very industries they are now regulating have caused this. Tie this together with the free flow of information on the internet with no checks and balances that can be harnessed to create very effective disinformation campaigns. Sprinkle in a population of people with no ability to logically parse real information from fake and here's where you land.
I used to be an energy efficiency engineer and the amount of waste I would find in these huge companies is mind boggling. The energy industry gives special pricing to the largest consumers of their product. So basically these huge plants are paying next to nothing for their energy compared to the raw material inputs. So what does this cause? Waste. They had no incentive to use energy wisely. I recall one plant that had a giant air compressor system for the plant that would run 24/7 with no controls for demand. This was a leaky old crappy system. It would run non stop and then when there wasn't as much demand at the plant and the pressure reached a certain point, they would just blow all the excess out out into the atmosphere. I think part of the problem is you have MBAs making decisions based on least cost and it's cheaper to just waste it than to control it if you're looking at simple bottom line.
I could give you tons of other examples such as older plants that had painted over all the windows where they used to light the plant via daylight and instead installed 455 watt metal halide fixtures. All they had to do was scrape the paint off and install t5 high bay fixtures and cut the electricity demand in half while having a more pleasant environment in the plant. Don't believe the lies that renewables and energy efficiency have no impact. They definitely do.

Man, you have said a lot. I studied business and learned how larger companies were "better" because they could make use of economies of scale. But I worked in the large corporations. I saw the waste you speak of. Your MBA observation is fairly accurate, I think.

#94 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

I dont think any electricity in CA comes from oil...Though transportation is heavily reliant on oil obviously.

Wikipedia has some interesting stats on Cali power:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

#117 6 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Ironic that we live in Orange County and our orange juice comes from Florida. But they would have a hard time beating our Avocados.

I worked with two guys a few years ago. One was from Cali and the other used to be an independent trucker who hauled produce from California.

Both of them, at different times and different places in the shop, said Florida oranges were trucked to Cali and then Cali oranges were trucked to Florida.

It always sounded like a waste of gas to me but searching Google shows that Florida's hot and humid climate produces oranges with more juice while Cali's hot and dry climate produces oranges with thicker skin and they are better for eating instead of juicing.

#124 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Certainly not in Cali

Your pic of whatever smog filled city that is reminds me of when I was passenger on a military flight into Orange California in 1973. I loved looking out the windows when i used to fly. The plane started losing altitude when preparing to land. As I as looking the window and watching the buildings, roads, and cars grow larger we flew into the smog. It was a son-of-a-bitch! moment as visibility dropped to zero and the only thing I could see was brown smog.

Once landed and outside the plane there was this brown haze in all directions. It was a sobering experience.

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