(Topic ID: 234740)

For sale: Twilight Zone X970000 PROTOTYPE

By fns9l

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by rollitover
  • Topic is favorited by 19 Pinsiders

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#68 5 years ago

Clearly OP is trying to make another stamp onto pinball history.

I am NOW officially taking all reasonable offers on my TZ, bought NIB in 1994, #S/N 53320-263221. Good times are ahead, but I have reached an apex end in this hobby for me. Simple version, time to cash out.

Addendum: ALL original factory documentation, manuals, schematics, warranty cards, and distributor sales receipt are included with my game. This easily constitutes a $55K value, and I will throw in the game for FREE!

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#90 5 years ago

The $500 Ebay sale limit imposed for first time sellers is there for several reasons...think about it.

If the OP still believes this game is worth $65K, the game should be submitted for professional auction. The only additional point I will mention is that the OP will find some of the experts in this community are the same involved with appraisement. The industry and hobby is VERY small.
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#108 5 years ago

Historically, there have been a few private sales of prototype "one off" (or extremely low volume) industry coin operated games that exceeded $65K, but NEVER for any title that actually made it into verified full production. This includes accounting for inflation over the years and some very special circumstances.

I keep wondering how long this FS ad will actually run, as now I had to share it just for the humor? Bravo OP, you achieved your marketing goal. I could never trade personal integrity for the extra exposure and get laughed at from the pinball community.

This whole ad with comments is turning into a false Pringles commercial.
"Once you pop, you can't stop." (complete with hidden money stash compartment)
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#130 5 years ago

To complement LTG's old website owner listing:
Here is the IPSND TZ full listing (1027 submissions) http://www.ipsnd.net/View.aspx?id=2684

Game S/N X970000 specific:
http://www.ipsnd.net/details.aspx?id=19393
Jon Farris (OP?) added this game on 9/16/2010 (his only submission).
"Fun House" with the same serial was added on 1/26/2019. (2190 submissions)
Who knows what is going on here?

There could be all sorts of pinball sleuthing regarding this particular game and ownership, if a collector wanted to get serious. Plenty of available reach back to the original designers as well. Any interested parties should be doing this, or paying someone to do it if they are willing to pay $65K for THIS machine!

Maybe there are hidden illuminati signatures to fame and fortune on the playfield by Ted Estes and Pat Lawlor?
Maybe the OP is Jon Farris from INXS, that might even bring some interesting directions for this thread, sort of like "Slash's Guns n' Roses" back in the day?

The possibilities are endless at this point in the thread, but this photo sums it all up.

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#155 5 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Could someone please explain why anyone would pay even 1k extra for any prototype game? To me, prototype generally means the designers didn't have it right yet. Who wants to play that over the final product? (Unless there was a VERY cool proto feature that got cut to reduce production costs that makes the game waaaaay better.) Otherwise, we're just talking about an odd vanity trophy right? Or am I missing something else entirely? What's the attraction?

As an owner of various prototypes and sample games myself, most of the time it is based the removed features due to cost reasons. Some can be very unique. There are a LOT more games out there that have specialized versions that the most common people are aware off based on popularity.

However, there are actually real collectors who only specialize in sample, prototype, and low production games as part of their "trademark" meaning it is not just because it is "rare", but they are keen on owning important aspects of pinball history. Value for price is another matter because even these collectors have limits to obtain these featured games, are not fools, many have been around the hobby for a very long time, and they know EXACTLY what added features certain prototypes contained.

Twilight Zone as a prototype and its "added" or "missing" features is much more well documented due to articles and interviews done with Ted Estes and Pat Lawlor starting from 90s. Some of it is still searchable even today.

TZ quiz questions for experts: Did the original Twilight Zone pinball prototypes have a starred or no-starred translite? What else might have been different on the original drawn images? What if anything was changed?
Pinball is full of secrets...

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#169 5 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

TZ translites with the stars cut out were shipped well after the prototype stage. My game was build in April 1993, has the sample playfield but green production boards and still included a cutout translite

Good job, you are correct. Post prototype.
There are still a few more mysteries to discover on the history of the TZ translite.

#170 5 years ago
Quoted from Vdrums:

Wow - based on this what would a 3 spinning disc jjpotc sell for ?

I know of one of the three prototypes in Seattle, WA with a private owner.
I would need to confirm it sold for less than $12K, as it was sold as part of a good relationship not pure profit.
Not everything in this hobby is about making money.
If this thread keeps rolling, I may have to ask.

#193 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I think the pinball community is way too small to consider the "history of pinball" as a tangible valuable asset.

You are not being exposed to many of the largest heavy hitter collectors. A person may not meet them from PinSide. A modern collector may never meet them at some type of tournament or party. Prior to the latest "pinball revival", history was one of the leading reasons to actually own pinball machines. It especially applies, if the machine is more than 30+ years old. The player type of collector was the minority, and still is although the NIB collector has grown in size.

Based on this discussion you might not if heard other types of collectors as well. There us what is called the "hoarder collector" either which deals with volume and even multiples of the same game.

There is HUGE money in prototype and sample games, equal often to most rare games, if the title is fully working and popular. But, there is a limit...

#196 5 years ago

I am not pumping. I am just telling people the truth. The hobby is small, but those that have around for a long time know that experimental, prototype, fully functioned games that NEVER made it into production can be worth 4-5 times a standard type game value. Twilight Zone is not part of this group.

Yes, there are people who are afraid to play their games as they might become "devalued", which is a stupid way to live, but it occurs with all types collectors. Musical instruments comes to mind.

If you had read my original posting a while back you also would have realized that I clearly stated there are NO examples of a game which made it into full production that sold for $65K, public or private. This includes inflation adjustments and special circumstances.

#202 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Ummmmm-no not even close-maybe a couple hundred-but not sure on thousands

I don't like to do this, but I will provide one example for comparison for a game which never made production, and what later occurred in pinball history.

The original Capcom prototype BBB (14 produced) average sales price $25K, and still is to this day.

IPB remakes sold for a little over $4K initially, which was higher than the standard game price tag of the time at $3250 for Stern games in 2004.

Today, the remake averages $15K.

Price difference is 5X from original to first days of remake. Today, the difference is still over $10K from original prototype.

The difference is not hundreds of dollars.

People MUST be able to differentiate between a prototype game which was produced/not produced, sample, and even early production. These categories are NOT the same thing, or have the same values.

No DW early production "wobble head" would be worth thousands of extra dollars, but one of TWO DW in the Bally cabinet with hologram/proto translite/artwork/lamps/and more is a different matter.

#248 5 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Comparing to TZ that had 15,000+ run and BBB that had 14 produced and than a remake of less than 200 is comparing apples to oranges. I understand but what you are saying but a $65,000 TZ of any kind is clearly over priced IMHO. If someone wants to pay it, however, good for the seller.

This particular discussion was not about whether prototype TZs should be valued at $65K, but an understanding of values based on production categories of games because people were openly discounting it actually existed at all. I don't dictate pricing.

I see you want something more closely knit in terms of production source and production run. No problem. I can provide that.

Mata Hari (Bally, 1977-78) is another example, this time from the "produced" versus "limited" or "nonproduced" category of games.

Mata Hari EM (170 units)
Mata Hari SS (16K+ units)

Mata Hari EM average value remains 4-5x of a solid state unit, when compared on equitable condition. I have witnessed it.

Some might say there are 170 "prototypes" of this game, but that is not really accurate. It is just a unique fully featured, working version of the same game, with different parts, and different operating system which is highly desirable to collectors.

My point is this concept is not an exaggeration, as it does happen, but depends on several factors.

#277 5 years ago

Everytime I log onto PinSide and read this thread, this video keeps echoing in my mind inside an infinite loop.
Keep up the quality content, PinSiders, and "weather the storm" OP.

"Tunak tunak tun, tunak tunak tun, tunak tunak tun, da da da..."
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#333 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Ok I just got the connection here. An owner of proto-type/sample games is here to defend his 'ideals' or values with his machines. I am generally curious(not being sarcastic)-what Prototype/sample machines do you own and what value do you place on them?

This question post reminds me of another meme.
Initial temperance is sometimes better than an "all out" frontal assault against people, if a person wants additional historical knowledge. I think the Pequod has already been sunk regarding this matter, at least for me. Let others take a dip in this particular ocean, if they choose.
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#336 5 years ago

"Punball Only One Earth" pinball machine by William Wiley, retheme of North Star (GTB, 1964)
Here is what was received for $125,000, not $120K.
The owner even got a complete set of clear leg protectors!
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#339 5 years ago

This is a reposted photo, but I still remember this game from our show in Washington. I did a classic double take when I saw the asking price. Funny as hell. "Rare does not always mean valuable."

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#462 5 years ago

Another couple of very good reposted articles for interested buyers or enthusiasts to peruse regarding the features (prototype and production) of Twilight Zone. Authored by Ted Estes. These will help in signifying the direct period of production of this particular game within the title history. Trust, but verify...

https://gameroomblog.com/features/romancing-the-zone
https://gameroomblog.com/features/twilight-zone-pinball-prototype-vs-production
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pinball/915948-twilight-zone/trivia

#517 5 years ago

Video of the declared S/N TZ in action, uploaded by the stated owner in 2012, "Classicalguitarist22". Young individual looked to be from the PA region and worked as a beekeeper. No additional research into person conducted. Game unverifiable based on angle and lack of clarity. This same S/N has been mentioned in other non-pinball forum sources such as it-vision.org. Another potential reference for interested parties. I still recommend reviewing the prototype Ted Estes article for a better comprehensive understanding of all features included in the prototype game, that I listed in my last posting.

#609 5 years ago

People certainly can ask for whatever price they want, but does not mean they should. Often it's helpful to make some smart inquiries first. Long time collectors get asked and answer these type of questions offline, all the time. Chalk this game for education into the history books.
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3 weeks later
#691 5 years ago
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1 week later
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#715 5 years ago

Not really, I sold a fully working FireCracker (Bally, 1971) for $300 a month ago, owner loves it.
Project Gorgar complete with a nice backglass and playfield, for $350.
Black Knight for $500 working, above average condition overall but nothing spectacular.
Several other half-dozen games in the B-title range for less than $3000, some for less than $2000, all working.
Some more EM projects for sub $300-400 to the right people that I know were not going to flip them on Craigslist.
That is the only reason I am already dropping below the 60 game range now in the past 6 months.

I already started passing the "flame" onto the next generation of collectors. I am slowly moving on.

Prices of the sales are based on condition, functionality, desirability, and age of the titles as I have for decades.
I never was in the hobby to make money, just ensure I never lose money.

The word is spelled, "hypocrite".

1 month later
12
#812 4 years ago
Quoted from lllvjr:

I’m not going to go through 12 pages... but if it hasn’t been mentioned this was probably Ted Estes game. He had a bunch of first prototypes since he coded the game. Safe cracker was another. He also had the very last swe1 off the assembly line sides by the workers on the bottom of the game

Mr. Estes already publicly confirmed this was not his personal machine. His game S/N was X970004.

According to records, this individual game is part of the first 12-15 series prototype sample games made off the the original concept design examples which did not have standard S/N designation.

Basically, what I am trying to reiterate to the public, this is NOT "the first TZ ever made" or owned by a designer/programmer, which was originally suggested in the past in order to increase its value. Understanding game title development history has relevance.

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