(Topic ID: 234740)

For sale: Twilight Zone X970000 PROTOTYPE

By fns9l

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by rollitover
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#301 2 years ago

I like the badge better...

21
#302 2 years ago

Getting said provenance as myself and many others have urged the OP to do is much more difficult than most realize. Remember, when this game was built, how many pieces of coin-op equipment were rolling out of the Williams-Bally/Midway plant every year? 500,000? They also made Mortal Kombat, Cruisin, Touchmaster, NBA Jam, etc. They were turning an burning faster than any one that didn’t work there could comprehend. Unless a design or testing engineer took pictures and kept and retained detailed notes, the info most likely is not there other than what individuals such as Ted Estes has shared (thanks by the way, this has been fun to learn about).

We operators are always fed to the wolves by many for some of the antics and practices of that past (on site quick hack repairs, converting everything imaginable to a JAMMA kit) but we were shown the easy path to success by Willy, Konami and Sega.

The OP stepped upon a hornets nest listing this game here. Now in his defense, where else could someone get a fair assessment of value for such a game? Though, I’m not entirely certain he’s received such a valuation. Imagine being in the OP’s shoes here and being called “moron, fucking stupid, crook, dreamer” and anything else imaginable. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have posted this here. I’m glad he did. It’s fun learning but how could he have known the shit storm he was creating?

If he had listed the game for $2000, how many people would have stepped up and said he’s too low and giving it away because he doesn’t know what he has? Everyone blasted him saying he doesn’t know what he has at $65k.

I BY NO MEANS AM HOLIER THAN THOU SO PLEASE DO NOT ATTACK ME. I TOO SAID MADE A COMMENT ON PAGE ONE OF THIS THREAD REFERENCING THE DIRTY PLAYFIELD, RUBBER AND ORIGINAL LIGHTS. I SHOULD HAVE MADE A SUGGESTION RATHER THAN A CRITICISM. MY POINT IS, STOP BEING DICKS TO NEWBIES THAT SIMPLY NEED GUIDANCE. NOT ALL ARE AS SEASONED AS SOME OF YOU HERE.

-1
#303 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Everytime I log onto PinSide and read this thread, this video keeps echoing in my mind inside an infinite loop.
Keep up the quality content, PinSiders, and "weather the storm" OP.

Ok I just got the connection here. An owner of proto-type/sample games is here to defend his 'ideals' or values with his machines.

I am generally curious(not being sarcastic)-what Prototype/sample machines do you own and what value do you place on them?

#304 2 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

I like the badge better...

65059F66-6CF5-4D1D-A2E6-5317D847D580 (resized).jpeg
13
#305 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I am generally curious(not being sarcastic)-what Prototype/sample machines do you own and what value do you place on them?

I have several (CV #5, SS #8, TTT #1, DH with drop target and a XR7 Banzai Run). I do value them more than production games but not $55k more. Hell, it'd be tough to even say they are $5k more without taking serious flack.

#306 2 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

I do value them more than production games but not $55k more. Hell, it'd be tough to even say they are $5k more without taking serious flack.

See if the OP will buy them for $25K, maybe he can double his money.

#307 2 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

See if the OP will buy them for $25K, maybe he can double his money.

Let's see if he sells this TZ first.

#308 2 years ago

I am beginning to think that all of these 'Heavy Hitters/Whales' that would pay a substantial premium for a Proto/Sample are just a small bunch of guys with 'delusions of grandeur'.

I will leave you with this tasty one......

#309 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

There are amazing collections out there... and as TBK mentioned there are major hoarder collections too. Most of the “new money” folks who have gotten into the hobby in the last 10-12 years don’t hang around those types... because they are into the hobby for different reasons and appreciate different things.

My eyes were recently opened when it comes to this kind of collector. I went to a guy's house to buy a game, and he was kind enough to show me his collection. It was impressive, to say the least! He had rare prototypes and early samples of dozens of 80's and 90's games. Most of them were in phenomenal condition. Many of the games were set up and playable, but he also had a ton of them in storage. It was a real treat to see.

#310 2 years ago

Everyone using their new favorite word provenance made me think of this

18
#311 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I am beginning to think that all of these 'Heavy Hitters/Whales' that would pay a substantial premium for a Proto/Sample are just a small bunch of guys with 'delusions of grandeur'.
I will leave you with this tasty one......

Do you seriously just go around belittling and attacking everything you don't know or agree with?

Because you're making yourself look like a fool by trying to put down people simply because you don't appreciate the same kind of stuff.

#312 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I am beginning to think that all of these 'Heavy Hitters/Whales' that would pay a substantial premium for a Proto/Sample are just a small bunch of guys with 'delusions of grandeur'.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Do you seriously just go around belittling and attacking everything you don't know or agree with?
Because you're making yourself look like a fool by trying to put down people simply because you don't appreciate the same kind of stuff.

I agree with flynnibus
pinmister you post as if you know how everyone thinks and acts, that their motivations match how you believe the world works. Newsflash: You don't. You know way less than you think you do, just like all the rest of us. Seen the documentary Sour Grapes? People do things for reasons that don't make sense. Deception, stupidity, greed, ignorance. The longer you live the more you see it. Someone who has ten million, a hundred million, or a few billion wealth has a very different way of thinking than your average person. Hustlers take advantage of this. Read about Ponzi? Madoff? The opportunity is out there and some will fall for it.

#313 2 years ago

Entertaining thread. Alot of shaming and hotheads. Fun stuff. The only thing annoying are the tiresome accusations of "price police".
If you're a seller *choosing* to connect a thread to your marketplace ad then you are prepared (or should be) to have people comment on your price. That's the Seller's "cost" for getting the extra exposure. Totally legit. Seller doesn't need to be defended from so-called price police.

Different story if you're just running an ad without connecting a thread to it but then someone starts up a thread devoted to complaining about your price. That might be shame-worthy.

#314 2 years ago
Quoted from albummydavis:

A similar argument happened in the world of comic collecting back in 1976. A now famous (infamous) dealer found a golden age collection no even dared dream existed. Thousands and thousands of immaculately preserved books from the late 30s and 40s. At the time, there was outrage over the asking of muliples of guide for copies. The animosity directed at the seller and those paying the prices was unreal. People ridiculed them, but meanwhile behind closed doors these books readily changed hands. Instead of being the predicted end of the hobby, this collection turned into a seminal event in the hobby and set the standard for truly rare and exceptional books

"immaculately preserved"

#315 2 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

"immaculately preserved"

If you’re alluding to the fact that this machine ain’t immaculate, the parallel to this situation still holds. 35 yrs later, some books from this collection have had the misfortune of being mistreated, poorly stored, or the victims of small accidents. They are no longer perfect or near perfect, but still command a dramatic premium because the collection was so important

Similarly , the “pay copy” of Action Comic 1 is written all over and was used in court cases defending DC’s trademarks. It commands a premium over similarly graded copies because of its importance.

Everyone should stop being offended and let people collect and spend what they want. You might be suprised where the market leads to.

#316 2 years ago
Quoted from albummydavis:

Similarly , the “pay copy” of Action Comic 1 is written all over and was used in court cases defending DC’s trademarks. It commands a premium over similarly graded copies because of its importance.

Exactly. This machine being "immaculate" would be missing the point of what it is. Sure it could bear to be cleaned up but all those weird holes, marks, crude alterations and fixes are part of the story of THIS particular game and it's history in making Twilight Zone pinball what it is.

It would be nice to hear him weigh in, but this game may actually have been used and played by Pat Lawlor as part of the final design process to get us the TZ we all know and love.

I don't know if that's worth 65k but it IS damn cool.

#317 2 years ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

I don't know if that's worth 65k but it IS damn cool.

Damn cool! Just have to figure a price. OP...have you gotten any respectable offers?

#318 2 years ago

Certain Comic books especially golden age ones are worth so much because they were printed on crappy paper and meant to be read by kids for that week/month then thrown away. They were never meant to be a collectable which is exactly why they became collectable, at least the significant issues. They're just not many left. Pinball machines are a different beast. There are many TZ pins left, being a prototype doesn't add much value. This isn't a non production game. TZ is one of the most popular games out there. This would be worth a bunch if it was a game like Krull or Goin' Nuts but it's not.

-2
#319 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

being a prototype doesn't add much value.

Wrong!

#320 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Certain Comic books especially golden age ones are worth so much because they were printed on crappy paper and meant to be read by kids for that week/month then thrown away. They were never meant to be a collectable which is exactly why they became collectable, at least the significant issues. They're just not many left. Pinball machines are a different beast. There are many TZ pins left, being a prototype doesn't add much value. This isn't a non production game. TZ is one of the most popular games out there. This would be worth a bunch if it was a game like Krull or Goin' Nuts but it's not.

These are commercial use games, meant to spend a few years in an arcade, get beat to death, and be discarded. Not all that different from comics really. These games really weren't made to be collected and played almost 30 years later!

Of the 15000 TZs that were made, how many do you imagine are left?

#321 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Has anybody made the joke about how the machine should have sex with them for that price yet?
That’s my favorite!

No way - some snowflake will complain their feelings got hurt by that comment and a thread eject will be issued.........

#322 2 years ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Certain Comic books especially golden age ones are worth so much because they were printed on crappy paper and meant to be read by kids for that week/month then thrown away. They were never meant to be a collectable which is exactly why they became collectable, at least the significant issues. They're just not many left. Pinball machines are a different beast. There are many TZ pins left, being a prototype doesn't add much value. This isn't a non production game. TZ is one of the most popular games out there. This would be worth a bunch if it was a game like Krull or Goin' Nuts but it's not.

The parallel doesn ’t hold up. Traditionally the first issue of a title is worth more. Conversely, it also has the largest print run and is often more common

And if anything pinballs are exactly like comics. They were meant to be used and abused and were disposable, and only the affections and passion of collectors (sometimes this included ops) saved them from the garbage pile. Sounds exactly the same

#323 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Damn cool! Just have to figure a price. OP...have you gotten any respectable offers?

Several.

#324 2 years ago

Nothing like a Troll to stir things up. Can't believe this thread is still going on and hasn't been shut down for good. I know I'm done with it.

John

#325 2 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

Nothing like a Troll to stir things up. Can't believe this thread is still going on and hasn't been shut down for good. I know I'm done with it.
John

Why is it a troll? Unrealistic price, maybe, but I don't see any trolling, unlike the Baywatch thread where the OP specifically engaged other pinsiders. To the OP's credit, he's posted additional pictures and answered any legitimate questions.

It's been an educational thread at that, with original designer's offering insight. I for one am glad the thread appeared.

#326 2 years ago

If this sells for 65k, then Only One Earth Pinball was quite a bargain in the end !

#327 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Damn cool! Just have to figure a price. OP...have you gotten any respectable offers?

The guy answered you within minutes of you asking with "several". I don't doubt for minute he has gotten offers, but if they were anywhere near his asking price do you think this thing would still be for sale? Not a chance.

And I am curious, what would YOU call a respectable offer for this machine?

#328 2 years ago
Quoted from adol75:

If this sells for 65k, then Only One Earth Pinball was quite a bargain in the end !

What is that? Haven't heard this story.

#329 2 years ago

I predict... this ad will be "closed" with no "sale" regardless of what he gets for his game.
This guy has every right to "ask" 65k... but we all know he's the same kind of dude that will avoid paying Pinside their commission.
Maybe, I don't know the OP... but I just don't seem him being honorable w/regard to the commission.

#330 2 years ago

he did mention in one of his posts that he made a donation to pinside

10
#332 2 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Agreed.
I have the very first Whirlwind here in the shop right now It is in much better condition than the TZ pics put up.
They are cool pieces but the OP is way off the mark on what these games bring.

I agree with all this. Would be nice to see that Whirlwind back in my hands, though!

FWIW, I also own TZ "#1 on the run" signed as such on the bottom by Pat Lawlor. Yes, the machine posted here *is* prior to mine, but apparently Pat signed each of the first games off the production line like mine. As such, mine is the first *sample* game and is a true factory third magnet game.

I'll let it go for...$50k. *cough*

--Donnie

#333 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Ok I just got the connection here. An owner of proto-type/sample games is here to defend his 'ideals' or values with his machines. I am generally curious(not being sarcastic)-what Prototype/sample machines do you own and what value do you place on them?

This question post reminds me of another meme.
Initial temperance is sometimes better than an "all out" frontal assault against people, if a person wants additional historical knowledge. I think the Pequod has already been sunk regarding this matter, at least for me. Let others take a dip in this particular ocean, if they choose.
mobydickmeme (resized).jpg

#334 2 years ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

I agree with all this. Would be nice to see that Whirlwind back in my hands, though!
FWIW, I also own TZ "#1 on the run" signed as such on the bottom by Pat Lawlor. Yes, the machine posted here *is* prior to mine, but apparently Pat signed each of the first games off the production line like mine. As such, mine is the first *sample* game and is a true factory third magnet game.
I'll let it go for...$50k. *cough*
--Donnie

That is awesome! Can you post some pictures of it (in another thread? -- the main TZ one, perhaps?)

#335 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

What is that? Haven't heard this story.

Here is the complete story, in a short a retheme made by William Wiley, a famous artist
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/william-wiley-opens-his-show-at-the-american-art-museum-with-pinball-18618198/

It sold for a 120.000$

#336 2 years ago

"Punball Only One Earth" pinball machine by William Wiley, retheme of North Star (GTB, 1964)
Here is what was received for $125,000, not $120K.
The owner even got a complete set of clear leg protectors!
wiley1 (resized).jpgwiley2 (resized).jpgwiley3 (resized).jpgwiley4 (resized).jpgwiley5 (resized).jpgwiley6 (resized).jpgwiley7 (resized).jpgwiley8 (resized).jpgwiley9 (resized).jpg

#337 2 years ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

I agree with all this. Would be nice to see that Whirlwind back in my hands, though!
FWIW, I also own TZ "#1 on the run" signed as such on the bottom by Pat Lawlor. Yes, the machine posted here *is* prior to mine, but apparently Pat signed each of the first games off the production line like mine. As such, mine is the first *sample* game and is a true factory third magnet game.
I'll let it go for...$50k. *cough*
--Donnie

The way he explained it to me is the signed ones were the ones he walked the line and were considered consumer ready. Do you consider yours 'sample' because it changed again later? I refer to my Funhouse as 'frankenstien' since it has some sample/proto designs and final production designs. I tell you though, I owned that game for 5-6 years before I ever looked under it and found the "#1 on the run" writing. Was kind of a shock.

#338 2 years ago

Interesting. Going to say an art enthusiast bought it, not a pinball enthusiast.

#339 2 years ago

This is a reposted photo, but I still remember this game from our show in Washington. I did a classic double take when I saw the asking price. Funny as hell. "Rare does not always mean valuable."

38e4d7599f20f2a96426fdacf5fecabbef8d94bf (resized).jpg

#340 2 years ago

I own many and have bought and sold many more prototype machines of this era. I'd take anything above $15k and be pretty happy on this one. In my experience, the market on the protos has cooled off from five years ago or more thanks to the influx of some pretty bad ass playing machines from Stern as well as the other smaller new manufacturers (and the dumb remakes). I'd love to be wrong, as I have a proto SS, CFTBL, RS, and WCS94 I'd like to sell soon.

--Donnie

#341 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

"Only One Earth Pinball" by William Wiley, retheme of North Star (GTB, 1964)
Here is what was received for $125,000, not $120K.

Actually I thought it was a one of a kind, but the third picture says it's a series of 5, although it doesn't have a number. I wonder if there's more than one out. It surely is beautiful.

#342 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

"Only One Earth Pinball" by William Wiley, retheme of North Star (GTB, 1964)
Here is what you got for $125,000, not $120K.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very cool. I did not know about this one. 120k is actually not surprising for a one of a kind work from an artist whose "regular" works on paper and canvas regularly sell for many thousands of dollars. If this is the only pin he painted, 120k does not sound unreasonable. Of course, here the value is in the artwork and has absolutely nothing to do with the pin other than that it served as a unique canvas/paper substitute. (The fine art world is wacky that way.)

15
#343 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

The way he explained it to me is the signed ones were the ones he walked the line and were considered consumer ready. Do you consider yours 'sample' because it changed again later? I refer to my Funhouse as 'frankenstien' since it has some sample/proto designs and final production designs. I tell you though, I owned that game for 5-6 years before I ever looked under it and found the "#1 on the run" writing. Was kind of a shock.

Yes, it has all the sample differences as documented many moons ago (but I honestly don't know off the top of my head anymore...which is why I really really laughed at all these "you obviously don't have the first sample because you don't know what you have" comments).

Nice to finally meet someone with another #1. I've never seen ANY others. Have you? Or know anyone online with any of the others? There was a time (up to Monopoly) that I had every Lawlor game, and most were prototypes. I've since gave up caring about that as a "thing" and sold the few I didn't care for as much. But I do have a Funhouse proto, Whirlwind proto, Earthshaker sample, TZ sample, Banzai Run with a proto playfield (playfield was found by itself by JohnWartJr and he sold it to me and I had Chris Hutchins put it in my game), SC proto, and TAF with sort of a proto playfield (I have the proto playfield and it's probably in that first handful or THE first, no way to know...it has way MORE mylar custom inserts than the OPs TZ and was absolutely beat to heck on location and as such not worth trying to "restore"...I had Chris strip all the proto parts and harness off and build an entirely new game around the hand made weldments and red PCBs and I LOVE IT). That's just my Lawlor games...I've got a few more, and I've owned probably 5 other Bally/WMS electronic prototypes.

Also, you guys who think proto collectors are stupid for paying more will never get it, so don't try. Enjoy what you enjoy. And if you find a rare quarter worth thousands because it's so rare, please be sure to take it to your local pinball location and drop it in a machine. Because, you know, you don't get rare coin collecting, either.

--Donnie

#344 2 years ago

^ Good to see you posting again.

#345 2 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

^ Good to see you posting again.

Me? Oh, I come and go.

--Donnie

#346 2 years ago
Quoted from djb_rh:

Yes, it has all the sample differences as documented many moons ago (but I honestly don't know off the top of my head anymore...which is why I really really laughed at all these "you obviously don't have the first sample because you don't know what you have" comments).
Nice to finally meet someone with another #1. I've never seen ANY others. Have you? Or know anyone online with any of the others? There was a time (up to Monopoly) that I had every Lawlor game, and most were prototypes. I've since gave up caring about that as a "thing" and sold the few I didn't care for as much. But I do have a Funhouse proto, Whirlwind proto, Earthshaker sample, TZ sample, Banzai Run with a proto playfield (playfield was found by itself by JohnWartJr and he sold it to me and I had Chris Hutchins put it in my game), SC proto, and TAF with sort of a proto playfield (I have the proto playfield and it's probably in that first handful or THE first, no way to know...it has way MORE mylar custom inserts than the OPs TZ and was absolutely beat to heck on location and as such not worth trying to "restore"...I had Chris strip all the proto parts and harness off and build an entirely new game around the hand made weldments and red PCBs and I LOVE IT). That's just my Lawlor games...I've got a few more, and I've owned probably 5 other Bally/WMS electronic prototypes.
Also, you guys who think proto collectors are stupid for paying more will never get it, so don't try. Enjoy what you enjoy. And if you find a rare quarter worth thousands because it's so rare, please be sure to take it to your local pinball location and drop it in a machine. Because, you know, you don't get rare coin collecting, either.
--Donnie

IIRC Monopoly was also known a long time ago. Back when I was doing research people on RGP also mentioned that TZ was known. Did you own it back in 2003-2005? I don't own/look for others really, it just happened to be luck of the draw.

#347 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

IIRC Monopoly was also known a long time ago. Back when I was doing research people on RGP also mentioned that TZ was known. Did you own it back in 2003-2005? I don't own/look for others really, it just happened to be luck of the draw.

I don't remember when I bought it, but it was around then. Either way, it's the only one I'd bet, so either you heard of it from the previous owner or me. But I was active on RGP for a long time, too, so that probably was me.

Oh, and I have the special "Income Tax" limited edition Monopoly. Also interested in selling.

--Donnie

#348 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

what Prototype/sample machines do you own and what value do you place on them?

Bill Paxton pin, $100K, one of the first 12 Stern POTC's, $50K, Ship Ahoy converted to solid state, $250K. Early sample TZ, $25K. MBR Proto #3 $40K. Capcom BBB, $75K.

That's about it.

LTG : )

#349 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Bill Paxton pin, $100K, one of the first 12 Stern POTC's, $50K, Ship Ahoy converted to solid state, $250K. Early sample TZ, $25K. MBR Proto #3 $40K. Capcom BBB, $75K.
That's about it.
LTG : )

LOL I so would love to play the Bill Paxton pin some day

#350 2 years ago

I have a Hook pinball machine that has had all 5 Whistle Pig Boss Hogs spilt on it, at least 3 fingers of Herradura Reserva de la Familia poured down its front, and the butt print of 1996 PMOY Stacy Sanchez still on the glass. I would value it as priceless, but would let it go for tree-fiddy.

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