Regarding the clock artwork not being a prototype on this one : I ve seen a cv Proto for sale with the production RM head and most likely original which means it was already under testing once sold and explain why some parts are differents between prototypes. Some kept prototype part and other get new parts which could get into future production.

CHOGGARD approves of this sale! Best Deal in the USA! I'd take 2 if there were twins at this price it's hard to pass up!

When you come on here with a price of $65,000 you better know everything about your machine, seems to me your trying to figure out what you have as this thread continues.

Drop test? Does that mean what I think it means?

Just out of curiosity, why would you need a drop test on a pinball machine?

Honestly: i prefer the white one by far with the zodiac signs and it’s also matching the backglass. If it’s original from the design dev. who cares to have the six colors one. Too bad there is no pinball museum to make you an offer, it’s a great piece of dev history of one of the most famous and sold piece. GLWTS

Likely safety testing... to ensure to doesn’t hurt someone after being abused. Or packing validation... to ensure survivability and reduce doa shipments and that associated cost.

Are you this flexible on the price?

The kickout hole that you can see just under the clock motor is different. Mine had a square hole and no wire form attached to the playfield.

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Its definitely one of the first few tz made .... pretty cool that the click millions target and insert were hand cut and put in afterwards possibly by pat l himself.

Maybe pat will chime in with his thoughts .

I doubt it but Ted Estes already posted in this thread which makes it epic

Johnwartjr knows alot about these but unfortunately he hasn't been on here in a while. Apparently there were 12 or so prototypes made and this is one of those. From the looks of it it may be 1 of the first 2-3 bc of the serial number and some other things. Pretty cool but the condition isn't the best unfortunately but someone will want this cool piece of history. Id bet someone wld buy it for 10-17k tho.

Always reminds me of rick Moranis

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LOL. He won’t even respond to an email from a friend of mine who has Funhouse Prototype #2. Pat has Prototype #1.

Makes me wonder what my frankenstein Funhouse is worth :p Funhouse #1

Ted’s post was great!

He has chimed in before but its its fairly rare. .

He responded to me years ago when I had some questions, but that was...2002-03?

Biggest ripoff in pinside history? Gotta be in the top 3?

Well, we now know that this is NOT Ted Estes old T.Z. Proto. Yep, you have an engineering sample and that's all you know. You can't even answer the hardcore questions a high brow collector entertaining this machine would ask. You didn't even know the differences of your own machine until Ted posted.

Sure, it's not fair for any of us to be the "Price Police", but it's also not fair for someone to come on here trying to unload a machine for grossly overated value and without proper information.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Bob Barker - "Let's take a look at the next item up for bids please..."

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Everytime I log onto PinSide and read this thread, this video keeps echoing in my mind inside an infinite loop.
Keep up the quality content, PinSiders, and "weather the storm" OP.

"Tunak tunak tun, tunak tunak tun, tunak tunak tun, da da da..."
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The OP just can't accept this is no $65,000 machine. This thread will last forever.

Nobody cares. Nobody will pay you $65000 for a game worth about 10-12K at the most, in good shape, which it isn’t. Move on, you won’t find any suckers here.

I understand on a purely intellectual level that there is a subset of collectors who are into this sort of thing as a nostalgia or history relic buy-in but I just can't wrap my brain around it with stuff like this. There's a hole in the playfield that looks like a first grader stuffed glue and toothpicks into it. That's a plus???? I understand that it's part of the history but it is a whole new idea for me to wrap my head around that for some seeing that someone screwed up on something in the factory and left behind a funky scar is desireable and valuable. It's interesting to me. It raises all sorts of questions about people's differing motives for collecting anything.

I don't know how many Prototype's they made , but my 1st of 3 TZ's was a Prototype .. I Traded a HUO LOTR for it back in 2010 to PinRookie ... I have Picts , but they are loaded on a Seagate and I'm Not dig_N them up ... No comment to the Op ,, except Yr CraZZy ...

Historic troll

With all that mylar bubbling, magnet mushrooming and insert wear I wouldn't give you 6500 ya fuckin troll.
Game looks like shit.

Not actually mushrooming, just pulled away from the insert by A FUCKING MILE

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Your MEME ...
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Even if it is number 1 off the line, playfield condition is very very average and any collector who may be interested, would walk away, whatever the price.

Credit dot? I’m out

I honesty think these crazy for sale ads on pinside are one of the bests parts of this site! So much fun to read. Keep doing your job Pinside Price Police!

What's the story with all the drill holes, wouldn't the positioning have been sorted on the whitewood? Where's the TZ Whitewood For Sale Thread?

This thread has had an extra 100+ posts on it since I last looked at it. Has there been a for sale thread with anything like this sort of attention? I've seen it linked to from the UK pinball forum too, so it's getting linked to from other places.

In that respect, as far as the OP is concerned, it is an unmitigated success. People are talking about it, people who are in that end of the market would be speaking to him to find out what he really wants for it. If he had listed it for ~$12k or whatever most people would think a prototype would be worth it would've been lost amongst all of the other for sale posts.

This thread has stirred a lot of emotions.Provenance is the key for any serious collector.The seller needs to have true and accurate details about his machine which seems scant at the moment.I have A TZ with all the bells and whistles that was situated in a Bally's executive office till they went under.Documented.Oh and the machine is in excellent condition.What would the market pay for this?Who knows.

I met a collector that I believe had the true #1 and had other prototypes from Lawlor. I believe Pat would write “first off the line” on the bottom of the cabinet somewhere?

Hmmmmm let’s see, one piece of shit beat up TZ with random holes drilled for 65k.......or 10 extremely nice modern pins for 65k.........I’ll take what’s behind door number 2! Heck, 65k would even get ya 6-7 NIB JJP’s.......yes please!............Ops gotta be plum bananas

To me a hacked up prototype is worth less. Is Pat Lawlor a god or something?-no just an average pinball designer. This game the OP is trying to sell is hacked, and looks like a beat TZ to me. I am baffled as I think of the suckers who actually think 'Pinball History' has significant value. People actually geek out with this stuff? Well you have no idea what you are talking about and there are tons of 'heavy hitters' that collect these kind of machines'-give me a break-who flippin cares!-go hang out with your 'heavy hitters'. Anyone who is delusional enough to see significant value in a hacked up prototype needs to find something else to try and impress their friends with.

Super lame-imo
-Keep up the artificial collecting-I think I have a coffee mug that Gary Stern once used-I am open to bids.

I love the guys that don’t have the inclination or cash to buy something and instead disparage what others collect. If someone has the cash and interest to spend on parts of rare pinball history, then all the more power to them.

A similar argument happened in the world of comic collecting back in 1976. A now famous (infamous) dealer found a golden age collection no even dared dream existed. Thousands and thousands of immaculately preserved books from the late 30s and 40s. At the time, there was outrage over the asking of muliples of guide for copies. The animosity directed at the seller and those paying the prices was unreal. People ridiculed them, but meanwhile behind closed doors these books readily changed hands. Instead of being the predicted end of the hobby, this collection turned into a seminal event in the hobby and set the standard for truly rare and exceptional books

So, if someone wants to spend silly money on a marked up and hacked up game that is part of history, let them.

That said, I think the price is high and some provenance would be nice.

It wasn't done on the protos/sample pieces. It was on the first production - to be sold piece. How they exactly decided that I'm not sure because things tend to get tweaked over the course of the run. The TZ was found years ago. I have the Funhouse. Not sure about others.

People can say pinball can have provenance-ok yes it can

-But to what extent? Hundreds of dollars in additional value or thousands? Yes-value is in the eye of the beholder

To me pinball is such a small niche hobby-it seems irrelevant and pointless to think it is significant and adds substantial value.

People can compare cars, comics, baseball cards, coins, hell throw in some Beanie Babies in the mix-all apples and oranges and all the others have way more mass (public) appeal. Maybe pinball will explode someday and people will be jumping over each other to spend $65,000 on a prototype TZ-but I would place my bet elsewhere-not going to happen.