Dear Sir,

I wish to make the transaction for the purchase of your item. Please forward the Paypal details at your opportune convenience. I will most certainly expedite the payment for you and demonstrate the purchase verification. What is your telephone number? My agent is to coordinate rapid collection and shipping of the item so no effort to your person is needed.

Look forward to auspicious opportune dealing with you.

Sent from my Samsgun phone.

I don't like to do this, but I will provide one example for comparison for a game which never made production, and what later occurred in pinball history.

The original Capcom prototype BBB (14 produced) average sales price $25K, and still is to this day.

IPB remakes sold for a little over $4K initially, which was higher than the standard game price tag of the time at $3250 for Stern games in 2004.

Today, the remake averages $15K.

Price difference is 5X from original to first days of remake. Today, the difference is still over $10K from original prototype.

The difference is not hundreds of dollars.

People MUST be able to differentiate between a prototype game which was produced/not produced, sample, and even early production. These categories are NOT the same thing, or have the same values.

No DW early production "wobble head" would be worth thousands of extra dollars, but one of TWO DW in the Bally cabinet with hologram/proto translite/artwork/lamps/and more is a different matter.

They sold for 14K if I remember what the buyer of this one told me. There were no shortage of more "special collectors" when he decided to dump his paper weight. He could have easily cashed in for more, but just wanted his money back.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/some-interesting-craigslist-finds/page/13#post-4660474

This. Just because someone else doesn’t see value in it, doesn’t mean there isn’t a market for this. There is absolutely a market of buyers who buy things simply because they are rare. This goes for more than just Pinball machines too. Cars, coins, lots of stuff has a market for the unique and rare where you pay more money for those. I myself have come close to buying such pins before, and the prices are certainly higher than even a great condition normal machine. But even then I don’t see this pin going anywhere close to $65k. I’d guess $20k tops, if that.

If someone showed off their original Picasso I’d be like “meh”. But I’m not into rare works of art. That doesn’t mean it isn’t valuable or that there isn’t a market for it.

Immensely disappointed. You guys are being WAY too easy on this tool.
Softside Sunday.

No football.....Gryszzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to watching golf and listening to SiriusXM.

No

Prototype clock. Hmmmm...

FAF0443C-9342-4576-8660-88DB1928EB4E (resized).jpeg

Was thinking the same thing!
Good call...

Keep the 80 videos coming. I am having fun now. Even if someone bought this machine for 6k. To fix it up so it is a nice game again.
It will need both playfields replaced.

This is a reality that most people don't see. You would be surprised how many of these people are out there. The really rare and expensive games are non players.

There are people out there would buy NIB Stern it JJP high end games and don’t play them either.

Many people erroneously believe that the white clock face, as shown in the flyer, indicates a prototype game. In actuality, 2000-3000 games were manufactured with the white clock face. While this is fraction of the production run for Twilight Zone, keep in mind that this number is more than the entire production run for recent games. The real “prototype” clock decal was installed on only two or three of the first prototypes. The decal was very simple, and had six colors in a ring on the face. The colors matched up with six different-colored lamp inserts on the playfield that eventually evolved into the Spiral Award inserts.

https://gameroomblog.com/features/twilight-zone-pinball-prototype-vs-production

So if this was prototype #1 shouldn’t it have a multi colored clock face?

I get that people pay a good chunk of money to be exclusive. Just look at the griping from the Munsters LE. What I don't get is where this machine came from. How does one get a prototype machine and not know the history? Whoever had it originally must have known and even if they sold it on the cheap, you'd think they'd let the next buyer know. I guess we just stumbled into a very special episode of Antiques Roadshow.

I have a friend that has a vast NIB collection. All still in their boxes. That's all he does now is buy boxed games. I do not identify with him on this at all as a pinball player and lover. It is just another investment for him.

I actually did a prototype TZ about eight years ago.
I don’t remember too many really special things about it if there were it might be noted here
http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album240?page=1

That said I have done three King Kong’s and each and every one of those had differences between them.
Some more drastic than others. These were really cool considering how rare the game itself was and then noting the differences between the ones I had come through here.
#1
http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album29

#2

http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album275

#3
http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album541

Prototype status is neat and can justify a slight or moderate premium based on how different or desirable the inclusions or exclusions are but you have to be realistic when pricing one.
From my experience it isn’t a meaningless status nor is it grounds for a windfall.

$65k is crazy but it shouldn’t be surprising that someone would pay $15-25k for the 1st prototype of TZ when 100+ collectors paid this much for versions of BM66 and Beatles with no distinctive value.

Thanks for sharing! It’s cool to hear a piece of history.

See these threads are a gas.... They make Pinside special and fun to be a part of....

It would be a bargain if only it was shopped out

Would buy, but spent all my money on this.

https://www.stadiumgoods.com/stern-pinball-machine-su4623-red-white?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&scid=scplp261046&sc_intid=261046&gclid=CjwKCAiAyrXiBRAjEiwATI95mZanZhRYx0_YKKESjCEZJhetY7XVabTy_c7Cy_bGC8MT4DH80VMNUBoCTUsQAvD_BwE

This would make a good This or That SDTM video. Hollywoodbone @zmeny, for $65,000 would you rather have a prototype Twlight Zone or a Supreme pin? Which is more valuable? Does a high price equal more fun?

Comparing to TZ that had 15,000+ run and BBB that had 14 produced and than a remake of less than 200 is comparing apples to oranges. I understand but what you are saying but a $65,000 TZ of any kind is clearly over priced IMHO. If someone wants to pay it, however, good for the seller.

Having gotten rid of a sample dw with the wobble head recently, the price difference is in the hundreds. Even then it took the right buyer. Do agree with all you are saying though.

With a price like this, it's well outside the Price Police's jurisdiction...

PINSIDE SWAT.JPG

Key letters in this for sale ad....

OBO

Wot? Not yet sold?

My sample had no stars April 5th 1993 build date, my other TZ made a month later had stars cut out.

LTG : )

The whales knew that you don't build scarcity and history out of the gate...

The hobby as you describe it is why MMr sold. That is the new money side of the hobby. There is far far far more out there than the guys who have every nib since X-men.

The sad thing is instead of just acknowledging there is more out there... people like you try to jam it down people's throats that it's dead, dying, or somehow off. I guess this is the same mindset that thinks pinside is the center of the pinball universe and podcasters are the real pulse of things....

This joke is no longer funny.

Blitz,

You had me at “No parking on the dance floor”. Epic!

Would be great if you can photograph these and share them. While not directly connected to the sale of your game, it will document a nice piece of pinball history for others to enjoy.

Just for future reference, if you're going to try and sell a pinball machine for with an asking price of $65K... claiming it was the first prototype, none of the information Ted supplied should be surprising or a shock to you. You should know your game's situation and the exact details of "the first" prototype inside and out and backwards and forwards.

You might want to change your sale ad's description.... because it's pretty obvious you don't have the "first" prototype in your possession.

Wouldn't the first prototypes be a whitewood anyways? I have never seen any company silkscreen an untested design before.

Flynnibus, I think we can agree that there is certainly a market for rare collectibles that would include rare or highly unusual pinball machines. Those collectors, who may value a variety of rare objects, may very well pay much more than what we pinball collectors would pay. My guess is most of us here buy pins to play them, or restore and improve them, although not all of us. But many collectors of rare cars, Hollywood memorabilia or historical artifacts buy things not to use them or even necessarily to display them, but simply to possess and appreciate them for their rarity. A “first ever” of something can be a very valuable thing. And, who knows what the uber-rich do with their money? I certainly don’t. Maybe there is a secret society of “eyes wide shut” rich people who have beautiful naked women walk around rooms filled with pinball machine prototypes.

Is the credit dot in the pics an error for the extra zero on the price?

So, what is a realistic price?

$10000 ?

This particular discussion was not about whether prototype TZs should be valued at $65K, but an understanding of values based on production categories of games because people were openly discounting it actually existed at all. I don't dictate pricing.

I see you want something more closely knit in terms of production source and production run. No problem. I can provide that.

Mata Hari (Bally, 1977-78) is another example, this time from the "produced" versus "limited" or "nonproduced" category of games.

Mata Hari EM (170 units)
Mata Hari SS (16K+ units)

Mata Hari EM average value remains 4-5x of a solid state unit, when compared on equitable condition. I have witnessed it.

Some might say there are 170 "prototypes" of this game, but that is not really accurate. It is just a unique fully featured, working version of the same game, with different parts, and different operating system which is highly desirable to collectors.

My point is this concept is not an exaggeration, as it does happen, but depends on several factors.

There are amazing collections out there... and as TBK mentioned there are major hoarder collections too. Most of the “new money” folks who have gotten into the hobby in the last 10-12 years don’t hang around those types... because they are into the hobby for different reasons and appreciate different things. One just has to imagine people saying the stuff written here in person and you can see how they wouldn’t be invited to see the “hidden” collections.

There is something to be said for respecting what you might not actually know... a trait lost on many it seems.

No one has suggested this example is worthy of 65k.. but there is a market for unique examples that has interesting and credible provenance. The cool thing is most of the 90s history still has the key players accessible to verify or validate things.

It’s too easy to fake stuff these days, so provenance and chain of history would be needed. But again, people don’t buy this kind of stuff from a pinside ad... they use it to find of something is out there.

At $65,000 it would have to be a Pinball machine that could make me breakfast in bed and give me a happy ending every day.... Although maybe it does and that is why it is priced so high