Quoted from fatality83:Why did they sit the game in the street and take a photo?
Great back drop ! Has total Curb appeal
(Topic ID: 234740)
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Twilight Zone
Bally, 1993
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Could someone please explain why anyone would pay even 1k extra for any prototype game? To me, prototype generally means the designers didn't have it right yet. Who wants to play that over the final product? (Unless there was a VERY cool proto feature that got cut to reduce production costs that makes the game waaaaay better.) Otherwise, we're just talking about an odd vanity trophy right? Or am I missing something else entirely? What's the attraction?
Op is a troll for sure he has way to much knowledge of pinside to be new.bring on the memes and 10k by Christmas.
New City, NY
Quoted from fns9l:I will gladly do any cleaning or replacing of rubber which a serious buyer asks for. I have not done any cleaning, as I do not want to risk any extra wear or damage to the beautiful artwork. this machine has been played very few times in the last 5 years, and has been stored in a climate control recreation room with no natural light, underneath light proof and dust proof coverings.
But the thing is, it’s being sold under the cover of a lot of bullshit, which sullies things a bit.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Could someone please explain why anyone would pay even 1k extra for any prototype game? To me, prototype generally means the designers didn't have it right yet. Who wants to play that over the final product? (Unless there was a VERY cool proto feature that got cut to reduce production costs that makes the game waaaaay better.) Otherwise, we're just talking about an odd vanity trophy right? Or am I missing something else entirely? What's the attraction?
As an owner of various prototypes and sample games myself, most of the time it is based the removed features due to cost reasons. Some can be very unique. There are a LOT more games out there that have specialized versions that the most common people are aware off based on popularity.
However, there are actually real collectors who only specialize in sample, prototype, and low production games as part of their "trademark" meaning it is not just because it is "rare", but they are keen on owning important aspects of pinball history. Value for price is another matter because even these collectors have limits to obtain these featured games, are not fools, many have been around the hobby for a very long time, and they know EXACTLY what added features certain prototypes contained.
Twilight Zone as a prototype and its "added" or "missing" features is much more well documented due to articles and interviews done with Ted Estes and Pat Lawlor starting from 90s. Some of it is still searchable even today.
TZ quiz questions for experts: Did the original Twilight Zone pinball prototypes have a starred or no-starred translite? What else might have been different on the original drawn images? What if anything was changed?
Pinball is full of secrets...
TZ Translite (resized).jpg
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:As an owner of various prototypes and sample games, most of the time it is based the removed features due to cost reasons.
There are a LOT more games out there that have specialized versions that the most common people are aware off based on popularity.
However, there are actually real collectors who only specialize in sample and low production games as part of their "trademark" meaning it is not just because it is "rare", but they are keen on owning aspects of pinball history.
Okay - I can understand that. I come to this from more of a player's perspective and really don't even think about it from a historian's perspective. Thanks.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Has anybody made the joke about how the machine should have sex with them for that price yet?
That’s my favorite!
For $65k this machine better pop out little tz’s once I’m finished...
Quoted from fns9l:I think it is worth noting that when I created this account, I made a notable monetary contribution towards your website.
Geesh, for a guy listing a $65,000 machine for sale I'd have thought a "notable monetary contribution" would at least have meant the extra $10 for Pinside + access 
Quoted from fns9l:LTG,
I just spent an hour going over the case inside and out, the headboard, and underneath, as well as along the edges of the playfield. I did not find a date or a date tag on any of it. I was quite thorough in my search. This conclusion leads me to believe that potentially this machine was not assigned a build date, possibly due to the fact it was the first prototype, and not a production model. If you have any information on where the build date should be located, I will gladly investigate it for you.
I have a suggestion where the build date might be located and wher you should look. But Pinside has rules about such things, so I’ll keep it to myself 
Quoted from fns9l:LTG,
I just spent an hour going over the case inside and out, the headboard, and underneath, as well as along the edges of the playfield. I did not find a date or a date tag on any of it. I was quite thorough in my search. This conclusion leads me to believe that potentially this machine was not assigned a build date, possibly due to the fact it was the first prototype, and not a production model. If you have any information on where the build date should be located, I will gladly investigate it for you.
Have you removed and looked under metal apron, then you see more of top of playfield.
Worth a try.
The price: OP, we all want what we think something's worth....and there's the what its actually worth. In a way many posts so far are trying to explain this to you.
There is also a lot of seasoned individuals here, with a lot of experience in coin op industry.
There is just no such thing as a 65k prototype.
Even if it's #1.
Fair price.....15-20k.
Quoted from gliebig:65000 Schrute bucks?
If only we knew how many Stanley Nickels that would be then..
Ottawa, ON
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:As an owner of various prototypes and sample games myself, most of the time it is based the removed features due to cost reasons. Some can be very unique. There are a LOT more games out there that have specialized versions that the most common people are aware off based on popularity.
However, there are actually real collectors who only specialize in sample, prototype, and low production games as part of their "trademark" meaning it is not just because it is "rare", but they are keen on owning important aspects of pinball history. Value for price is another matter because even these collectors have limits to obtain these featured games, are not fools, many have been around the hobby for a very long time, and they know EXACTLY what added features certain prototypes contained.
Twilight Zone as a prototype and its "added" or "missing" features is much more well documented due to articles and interviews done with Ted Estes and Pat Lawlor starting from 90s. Some of it is still searchable even today.
TZ quiz questions for experts: Did the original Twilight Zone pinball prototypes have a starred or no-starred translite? What else might have been different on the original drawn images? What if anything was changed?
Pinball is full of secrets...
[quoted image]
TZ translites with the stars cut out were shipped well after the prototype stage. My game was build in April 1993, has the sample playfield but green production boards and still included a cutout translite
Fun thread documenting the differences between a sample TZ versus a production TZ. Would be great to get photos of this machine's special bits added to that thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sample-tz
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:TZ translites with the stars cut out were shipped well after the prototype stage. My game was build in April 1993, has the sample playfield but green production boards and still included a cutout translite
Good job, you are correct. Post prototype.
There are still a few more mysteries to discover on the history of the TZ translite.
Quoted from Vdrums:Wow - based on this what would a 3 spinning disc jjpotc sell for ?
I know of one of the three prototypes in Seattle, WA with a private owner.
I would need to confirm it sold for less than $12K, as it was sold as part of a good relationship not pure profit.
Not everything in this hobby is about making money.
If this thread keeps rolling, I may have to ask.
Warrington
Quoted from Vdrums:Wow - based on this what would a 3 spinning disc jjpotc sell for ?
A8E76474-122D-42DA-9A1B-2EF22F7D5EB9 (resized).jpeg
Paris
Not sure if that nb1 and manufacturing date is relevant.
Here are what i ve found for 2 proto MM and 2 proto TOTAN. For the MM it’s even 1 versus 18.
They have the same manufacturing date, so was it completed the same day??
I’m not sure what it means the nb 1 thing... couple minutes older than the other ones?
1486B8E6-43FB-4533-8AEB-DE488F786725 (resized).png22CED89E-6AF4-4D82-8CA3-EF3FEE5929D1 (resized).png5D3703BF-D513-4288-8556-91B0BA1C1E0A (resized).jpeg77B5F540-00DC-4C0F-A5D9-B8A28CAC0B49 (resized).pngQuoted from fns9l:LTG,
I just spent an hour going over the case inside and out, the headboard, and underneath, as well as along the edges of the playfield. I did not find a date or a date tag on any of it. I was quite thorough in my search. This conclusion leads me to believe that potentially this machine was not assigned a build date, possibly due to the fact it was the first prototype, and not a production model. If you have any information on where the build date should be located, I will gladly investigate it for you.
Post a picture of the serial number label that is on the back of the machine.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Post a picture of the serial number label that is on the back of the machine.
It looks identical to the one inside the cabinet that i posted. No date on it.
Still scratch my head trying to understand why people think prototype or sample games are worth more money? May have slightly different art, etc.-Who really cares about this stuff? It is like someone has a prototype game and says to someone-"Look what I have-it's a prototype because the boards are red and has hand writing". Who gives a flying F*@! Are people really interested or impressed with this stuff? Scratching my head
-Pinside price police just showed up
PPP.jpgQuoted from pinmister:Still scratch my head trying to understand why people think prototype or sample games are worth more money? May have slightly different art, etc.-Who really cares about this stuff? It is like someone has a prototype game and says to someone-"Look what I have-it's a prototype because the boards are red and has hand writing". Who gives a flying F*@! Are people really interested or impressed with this stuff? Scratching my head
-Pinside price police just showed up
[quoted image]
I think they arrived 175 posts ago. . .
Quoted from lyonsden:I think they arrived 175 posts ago. . .
Shit I did not read through all the post-just know someone had to call them-ummm dispatch we have a TTBPO420 here.
TTBPO420-'Trying to bend people over-420'
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Could someone please explain why anyone would pay even 1k extra for any prototype game?
For the same reason people pay for incomplete unreleased games... or versions that were changed (mata hari, taxi, etc). They are buying into the story and history of the piece... not because it's a better pinball machine.
Why do people buy antiques that don't even work?
Quoted from pinmister:Shit I did not read through all the post-just know someone had to call them-ummm dispatch we have a TTBPO420 here.
TTBPO420-'Trying to bend people over-420'
I only read the whole thread to see what the OP is taking, because whatever it is I want some, clearly it’s good sh*t 
OP did say O.B.O. after price- probably knowing that 65k might be too high and was looking to see what it might be worth to those handful of buyers that might be interested in it. Plus the feedback on this thread has helped to make sure its been seen by most pinsiders for maximum advertising at minimal cost/effort.
Great American Pinball's Black and White TZ still has not been sold and is pricy. Frankly, I'd rather have that then the game for sale here- I mean come on, while not factory original, that is a true one-off, vs a proto machine where there may have been 10 made.
Quoted from flynnibus:They are buying into the story and history of the piece... not because it's a better pinball machine
Ok so you are buying into a story or history of a game. My question is why? Why buy a game for it's history, so you can brag to friends(who probably don't care or see the relevance) about where it came from or where it has been. It makes absolutely no sense to me when it comes to a pinball machine-maybe a car or something else-but a pinball machine? Again scratching my head because I just don't get it. I would not even pay a premium for a game that someone famous once owned-again who gives a crap? I only pay a premium based on condition-Condition is king in my book.
There is a whole side of this hobby that apparently many are oblivious to... but doesn't stop them from letting everyone know it....
Why don't some people checkout this thread... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/show-off-your-rareprototype-pinball-stuff
And recognize most of that kind of stuff changes hands at unusual prices and generally NOT in the public view.
Not saying the 65k price is right.... but apparently many don't know there is an entirely different type of collector market out there too...
There’s no doubt that this Twlight Zone is a special machine. If it’s truly a prototype game, then it has a unique story and history, it could definitely be in a pinball museum. Unfortunately the $65000 price is unrealistic and unattainable. OP, you have a awesome machine, I hope you can find a buyer that will appreciate and enjoy the pin.
Quoted from pinmister:Ok so you are buying into a story or history of a game. My question is why? Why buy a game for it's history, so you can brag to friends(who probably don't care or see the relevance) about where it came from or where it has been. It makes absolutely no sense to me when it comes to a pinball machine-maybe a car or something else-but a pinball machine? Again scratching my head because I just don't get it. I would not even pay a premium for a game that someone famous once owned-again who gives a crap? I only pay a premium based on condition-Condition is king in my book.
Why do people pay a premium for unmolested barn find cars instead of restored pristine ones?
Why do people pay for a simple handwriting example from a dead person?
Its a different type of collecting - obviously not what you are into... but you are being rather obtuse about collecting- and not just in coin op
Quoted from pinmister:Still scratch my head trying to understand why people think prototype or sample games are worth more money? May have slightly different art, etc.-Who really cares about this stuff? It is like someone has a prototype game and says to someone-"Look what I have-it's a prototype because the boards are red and has hand writing". Who gives a flying F*@! Are people really interested or impressed with this stuff? Scratching my head
-Pinside price police just showed up
[quoted image]
I have a 1 of 20 sample pinball magic. There are no gameplay differences between it and production. It does however have a lot of things thst make it unique. Stainless hardware instead of pwdercoat. Some boards are different. Some art on the pf is done with decals. It uses sockets instead of boards in the backbox.
Game is interesting to get into. Its a bit more of a pain to keep running, but i like working on games. This all makes it more desirable to me. If i sold it i doubt i would ever find another sample.
Quoted from flynnibus:Its a different type of collecting - obviously not what you are into
Yes I call it artificial collecting-meaning it means nothing to me.
The only way I would see a value in a prototype or sample game is if the gameplay is different from production models.
Different strokes for different folks
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-the-deal-with-prototypes-and-whitewoods#post-4062417
Quoted from Wmsfan-GAP:OP did say O.B.O. after price- probably knowing that 65k might be too high and was looking to see what it might be worth to those handful of buyers that might be interested in it. Plus the feedback on this thread has helped to make sure its been seen by most pinsiders for maximum advertising at minimal cost/effort.
Great American Pinball's Black and White TZ still has not been sold and is pricy. Frankly, I'd rather have that then the game for sale here- I mean come on, while not factory original, that is a true one-off, vs a proto machine where there may have been 10 made.
I wonder what the price is on that GAP b&w TZ?
Quoted from Pbpins:I wonder what the price is on that GAP b&w TZ?
I believe it's somewhere in the 20k's...
Quoted from flynnibus:Why do people pay a premium for unmolested barn find cars instead of restored pristine ones?
Why do people pay for a simple handwriting example from a dead person?
People pay a premium for an unmolested barn find car because it is probably a rare car, with lower miles, etc. Again condition and rarity-but not a prototype.
People pay a premium for a handwriting from a famous person because they have a connection with that person or they want something to put on a shelf to show off to others.
It is different with pinball, if the OP invited me into his home and showed off his prototype TZ-I would shrug my shoulders and say "Meh" does not look to be in that good of condition, especially for being an HUO machine-Doh' I would offer him $7000 for a TZ in that shape-I guess I am only $58,000 short. Maybe I can do a go fund me for $58,000 to help a delusional collector buy a prototype TZ? I think the pinball community is way too small to consider the "history of pinball" as a tangible valuable asset.
Quoted from pinmister:I think the pinball community is way too small to consider the "history of pinball" as a tangible valuable asset.
You are not being exposed to many of the largest heavy hitter collectors. A person may not meet them from PinSide. A modern collector may never meet them at some type of tournament or party. Prior to the latest "pinball revival", history was one of the leading reasons to actually own pinball machines. It especially applies, if the machine is more than 30+ years old. The player type of collector was the minority, and still is although the NIB collector has grown in size.
Based on this discussion you might not if heard other types of collectors as well. There us what is called the "hoarder collector" either which deals with volume and even multiples of the same game.
There is HUGE money in prototype and sample games, equal often to most rare games, if the title is fully working and popular. But, there is a limit...
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:There is HUGE money in prototype and sample games, if the title is fully working
Wow-easy does it with the pumping. I think these type of 'collectors' that are interested in paying an over-inflated price for a piece of 'pinball history' are few and far between(and fading away fast). Pinball is still a small niche hobby-who are they going to impress with that prototype? -Like 20 dudes? People are coming to the realization that what really matters is condition, if you want a piece to put in a pinball museum for history-buy a prototype-if you want something to really impress friends buy a cq machine that PLAYS well.
Quoted from pinmister:Wow-easy does it with the pumping. I think these type of 'collectors' that are interested in paying an over-inflated price for a piece of 'pinball history' are few and far between. Pinball is still a small niche hobby-who are they going to impress with that prototype? -Like 20 dudes? People are coming to the realization that what really matters is condition, if you want a piece to put in a pinball museum for history-buy a prototype-if you want something to really impress friends buy a cq machine that PLAYS well.
[quoted image]
Reminds me of a pic I saw on here where a "collector" purchased a Gottlieb Krull (still wrapped on pallet) and was a *afraid* to play his investment 
I am not pumping. I am just telling people the truth. The hobby is small, but those that have around for a long time know that experimental, prototype, fully functioned games that NEVER made it into production can be worth 4-5 times a standard type game value. Twilight Zone is not part of this group.
Yes, there are people who are afraid to play their games as they might become "devalued", which is a stupid way to live, but it occurs with all types collectors. Musical instruments comes to mind.
If you had read my original posting a while back you also would have realized that I clearly stated there are NO examples of a game which made it into full production that sold for $65K, public or private. This includes inflation adjustments and special circumstances.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:worth 4-5 times a standard type game value.
Ummmmm-no not even close
Where did you pull those numbers from?
the-dude-shaking-head.gifQuoted from Schusler:Reminds me of a pic I saw on here where a "collector" purchased a Gottlieb Krull (still wrapped on pallet) and was a *afraid* to play his investment
Did not see that Krull picture but that a is treatment is not limited to rare or prototype games by any means as I have seen a game room that had a line maybe 25 or so Stern LE’s and not one of them had more than 10 plays on it which was a point that was very clearly stressed on the tour!
Just had a thought about all of those 'special collectors' out there that got bam-boozled into thinking Magic Girl was special and unique. Now they have a $20,000 paper weight staring at them everyday that they cannot sell(or play ) on secondary market-that would be torture for me to have to stare at a paper weight all day.
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