Houston, TX
Quoted from Brtlkat:That's not a whitewater coin door either. That's a coin door off later model pins.
Oh, I assumed since HEP used it, it was era correct. Maybe it was owner choice.
(Topic ID: 296440)
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White Water
Williams, 1993
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Quoted from Brtlkat:Nope your wrong,,, You have the wrong door installed too then.
Whatever you say mister expert. 
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Oh, I assumed since HEP used it, it was era correct. Maybe it was owner choice.
Replacing parts with reproductions instead of restoring the originals isn't a restoration in my book.
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:The play field is clean, not sure what you are talking about on that. I removed everything from the play field and did a complete clean on everything. This is not some hack job restore. The ball trail I can clean off as I have been playing it quite a bit lately and must have missed that one area when wiping it down the other day. The inserts aren’t lifting at all, they are perfectly flush with the play field.
The ball trail is from the dirt elsewhere in the game - in the subways, under the mountains, and everyplace else you didn't clean.
Bullshit if those inserts are flush. You wouldn't see dirt around the edges if they were.
I'm in a fine mood today.
Quoted from Brtlkat:[quoted image]
Quoted from Brtlkat:That's not a whitewater coin door either. That's a coin door off later model pins.
Yesssss and your Entropy door is one of the ones they used on White Water the other was the Coin Controls door that he has on his machine. They also put the same Coin Controls door on Fish Tales.
Does anyone really care that much about the originality of the coin door? C'mon. The only time anyone mentions something like that is when trying to beat up a seller like this. Price is high but a nice Whitewater does command a premium.
Quoted from jawjaw:Does anyone really care that much about the originality of the coin door? C'mon. The only time anyone mentions something like that is when trying to beat up a seller like this. Price is high but a nice Whitewater does command a premium.
IDK, the one he has on it looks like glossy stern door. Looks terrible.
Quoted from jawjaw:Does anyone really care that much about the originality of the coin door? C'mon. The only time anyone mentions something like that is when trying to beat up a seller like this. Price is high but a nice Whitewater does command a premium.
I'm not sure it is worth beating up anyone over, but when you are asking top dollar...you don't think collectors are going to call that out?? No different than any other item collections. Authenticity and original items count towards worth. Never watched Antique Road Show? 
littlest thing can knock it from 20k to $100. Of course, let's just blame Pinside though. Maybe Ebay is a better place to get suckers.
Quoted from woody76:IDK, the one he has on it looks like glossy stern door. Looks terrible.
The one in the seller's picture is a Coin Controls brand door, the original door. They naturally have that glossy bumpy look to them, unlike the splattered textured look of newer coin doors from the late 90s. Everything in his pictures looks original and in nice condition.
If someone is wanting a pure restore complete to factory then yes it is more than acceptable to pick on details like a coin door
This is not a pure back to original restore. It has art blades, orange rubbers, new ramps that are not original from Williams, etc.
The coin door is what came on the machine and I have no reason to think it’s not original but I’m not a expert/ collector to that level on pinball machines. The door does have a shine to it, not quite a full gloss finish but not dull/ flat either.
Quoted from yzfguy:THIS is the correct coin door!
[quoted image]
That is an original coin door for machines exported to other countries.
Chilliwack, BC
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:That is an original coin door for machines exported to other countries.
That makes sense, White Water is super popular as reimport because the margins are still good. It one of the last good deals because the price is so out of control over here. That being said if this is a reimport the buyer needs to take a serious look inside, most of the imports were operated for decades and those guys did anything to keep them running.
Quoted from Darscot:That makes sense, White Water is super popular as reimport because the margins are still good. It one of the last good deals because the price is so out of control over here. That being said if this is a reimport the buyer needs to take a serious look inside, most of the imports were operated for decades and those guys did anything to keep them running.
Yes, mine was missing entire switch assemblies and had stuff wired backwards.... That re import coin door is the last thing that drives me crazy to look at... I will eventually pick up a new door.
Quoted from Darscot:That makes sense, White Water is super popular as reimport because the margins are still good. It one of the last good deals because the price is so out of control over here. That being said if this is a reimport the buyer needs to take a serious look inside, most of the imports were operated for decades and those guys did anything to keep them running.
If this machine was routed then it was either very well taken care of or never played. The play field is in great shape and no wear. It had a couple cracked ramps when I got it and I went ahead and put in new ramp switches all around while I was in there too. The wiring is not hacked up and cobbled under the field or in the back box. I myself was very surprised to find this due to the age of the machine alone
Quoted from Zablon:I'm not sure it is worth beating up anyone over, but when you are asking top dollar...you don't think collectors are going to call that out?? No different than any other item collections. Authenticity and original items count towards worth. Never watched Antique Road Show? littlest thing can knock it from 20k to $100. Of course, let's just blame Pinside though. Maybe Ebay is a better place to get suckers.
Still call bs. Pins are not antiques and customizing is huge part of hobby. It's hardly unexpected to find something like this on an 30 year old routed pin.
Quoted from jawjaw:Still call bs. Pins are not antiques and customizing is huge part of hobby. It's hardly unexpected to find something like this on an 30 year old routed pin.
Not antiques? That right there disqualifies you from your opinion.
And yes, you are correct, not unexpected, but at $11500, questionable.
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:If this machine was routed then it was either very well taken care of or never played. The play field is in great shape and no wear. It had a couple cracked ramps when I got it and I went ahead and put in new ramp switches all around while I was in there too. The wiring is not hacked up and cobbled under the field or in the back box. I myself was very surprised to find this due to the age of the machine alone
I'm sure it was routed. If you got it back into top collector quality shape that is all that will matter. At that level buyers are going to expect the boards, wiring harness and entire underside to be spotless. Once you get into this price point you need that reputation/legacy on your work, without it you can expect to get beat up a little. It does look like a very nice pin.
Price updated, too many people crying about an OBO price as I knew I would get low ball offers ( which I did). Price is now firm
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:Price updated, too many people crying about an OBO price as I knew I would get low ball offers ( which I did). Price is now firm
If they don't like the price of your White Water, they're really going to hate the price of my Indiana Jones when its listed. And it'll be a public forum posted ad, hope I don't get flamed too bad.
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:Just completed, fully restored White Water machine.
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:The play field is in great shape and no wear. It had a couple cracked ramps when I got it and I went ahead and put in new ramp switches all around while I was in there too.
Wait, a fully restored machine either has a new pf or one completely gone over, cleaned, touched up and most boften clear coated. Your two statements above seem contrary?
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Wait, a fully restored machine either has a new pf or one completely gone over, cleaned, touched up and most boften clear coated. Your two statements above seem contrary?
Now you’re just knit picking for lack of anything better to do. Move on buddy. The play field didn’t need replaced or coated, it was in great shape. Why would you fix or replace something that isn’t damaged ? That would be like taking a pristine collector car and repainting it due to age or rebuilding a motor that has perfect compression on all cylinders….
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:If they don't like the price of your White Water, they're really going to hate the price of my Indiana Jones when its listed. And it'll be a public forum posted ad, hope I don't get flamed too bad.
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:Replacing parts with reproductions instead of restoring the originals isn't a restoration in my book.
You can makeup whatever definitions you want, but you'd be wrong. MANY high-end restorations use repro playfields. I commissioned a HEP AFM restoration and the PF was a reproduction...the original PF for many of the older games just aren't worth restoring. In AFM's case the VUK hole is often too badly damaged to restore (for games that were "in the wild").
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:Now you’re just knit picking for lack of anything better to do. Move on buddy. The play field didn’t need replaced or coated, it was in great shape. Why would you fix or replace something that isn’t damaged ? That would be like taking a pristine collector car and repainting it due to age or rebuilding a motor that has perfect compression on all cylinders….
I feel your pain (as someone that recently sold a game that everyone said would never sell at my asking price).
I've owned a restored WH20 forever and it has the original Diamond Plated PF...gorgeous. I prefer it over a repro for this game.
Keep your chin up. I have no idea what the market is for this game, but think you are still on the high side. My $.02 is it would likely sell for ~7k in today's market.
Quoted from Mjonesproperty:Now you’re just knit picking for lack of anything better to do. Move on buddy. The play field didn’t need replaced or coated, it was in great shape. Why would you fix or replace something that isn’t damaged ?
Im trying to open your eyes to often subjective terms since you're relatively new here.
Some suggested reading for your down time:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/has-the-definition-of-restored-changed-what-am-i-missing
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/definition-of-nice
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/request-definition-of-shopped
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/poll-your-personal-definition-of-collector-quality
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/players-condition-definition
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration
He by which all other "restorations" are compared:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Im trying to open your eyes to often subjective terms since you're relatively new here.
Some suggested reading for your down time:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/has-the-definition-of-restored-changed-what-am-i-missing
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/definition-of-nice
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/request-definition-of-shopped
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/poll-your-personal-definition-of-collector-quality
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/players-condition-definition
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration
He by which all other "restorations" are compared:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18
I'm not relatively new here and have owned games restored by pros (HEP, Kelly, Keller, PMD, etc.) and hobbyists/collectors.
Early in this thread, the op disclosed he restored the game. Just because he isn't a pro doesn't mean this isn't a restoration. Restorations are on a spectrum...not black or white. Everyone has different likes/dislikes when it comes to restorations. This idea that there is one definition is flawed.
Quoted from snaroff:In AFM's case the VUK hole is often too badly damaged to restore (for games that were "in the wild").
I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields, but it is probably out of his skillset is why. I, however, can fix the worn holes on playfields. I've done so on my Indy. The AFM hole could be fixed without being time prohibitive.
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields, but it is probably out of his skillset is why. I, however, can fix the worn holes on playfields. I've done so on my Indy. The AFM hole could be fixed without being time prohibitive.
You seriously trying to stealth brag that you have more skills then HEP?! Takes a bold man talk shit that things are out of HEPs skillset. Man I hope your IJ delivers, going to be fun when you post it.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Flipper_McGavin:I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields, but it is probably out of his skillset is why. I, however, can fix the worn holes on playfields. I've done so on my Indy. The AFM hole could be fixed without being time prohibitive.
You must be new
There’s a Playfield section too
Lucky….
Quoted from snaroff:I'm not relatively new here and have owned games restored by pros (HEP, Kelly, Keller, PMD, etc.) and hobbyists/collectors.
Early in this thread, the op disclosed he restored the game. Just because he isn't a pro doesn't mean this isn't a restoration. Restorations are on a spectrum...not black or white. Everyone has different likes/dislikes when it comes to restorations. This idea that there is one definition is flawed.
Thank you, exactly. I never claimed it was a restoration done by some renowned craftsman. As stated I restored it myself. The machine plays perfect and looks perfect, and to 99.9 percent of people they would be overjoyed to have this game in their collection. Is it museum quality? No, but very few are. This is a high quality game, no junk or half done fixes.
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields, but it is probably out of his skillset is why.
That gave me a good laugh......
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields, but it is probably out of his skillset is why. I, however, can fix the worn holes on playfields
Single stupidest thing posted on pinside in the year 2021...its still early but I predict this will hold the title all year...
Nowra
Quoted from jokerpoker:Now that’s a coindoor. Era correct I don’t give a crap it’s gorgeous. [quoted image]
Meh...
Quoted from cosmokramer:Meh...
Careful!
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:they're really going to hate the price of my Indiana Jones when its listed.
Hate it?! The garbage you're coming up with is pure gold. We're going to LOVE it!
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields,....
Please, save some for the IJ thread!
Edit: just a little primer for us
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-indiana-jones-the-pinball-adventure-136
Quoted from cosmokramer:Single stupidest thing posted on pinside in the year 2021...its still early but I predict this will hold the title all year...
An assumption taken out of context by this website whom have a love affair with HEP doesn't warrant stupidest post of the year. But he linked his site and does do a good job on playfields. I wasn't criticizing his work, I was guessing he didnt have the ability to do it in the first place. Not everyone can color match....
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:taken out of context
Out of context?!?
It was taken from this thread, just moments ago...
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:An assumption taken out of context by this website whom have a love affair with HEP doesn't warrant stupidest post of the year. But he linked his site and does do a good job on playfields. I wasn't criticizing his work, I was guessing he didnt have the ability to do it in the first place. Not everyone can color match....
Guessing when you were responding to me (i.e. someone that has worked with HEP) is kind of odd (to be polite).
This isn't about any love affair with HEP (though he is a very nice guy, it's about your misguided, poorly informed comment. You can do better, I'm certain.
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:I don't know whether or not if HEP restores playfields, but it is probably out of his skillset is why.
He does, and he does it full time for a living and support a family. He’s been doing it for years, decades.
You can’t do pinball restorations for a primary job and suck at it or you’d starve. The dude eats steak, seafood and drinks craft beer. I say he’s not going hungry.
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