Toy Story 4 (LE)
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To answer that, from what I read of Delt's post is he also speculated that Greg isn't taking a loss on this like everyone else would buying on a good review and then discovering the game isn't for them because he was able to buy at wholesale due to industry connections. That's my intrepretation of the post.
Everyone is so used to telling there wife buying a pin is an investment so they can get it they are starting to believe it them self 
Free bump; I don't want to give Greg a hard time, I am sure he loved the game at first and he has not said what motivated the sale.
I think I would be a buyer for sure in the $7500 range in the highly unlikely event that actually happens. I could see these settling in the 9's. My main hesitation is stuff like having to play the virtual pinball game over and over again (not a huge fan of video modes, even if they are virtual pinball) and the fact there is one on location in my town to play when I drag my butt out there to play.
Quoted from indybru:Oh for crying out loud.
I paid $12,000 plus freight and I'm good with that. I love the game owned about 3 months 400 plays and have no regrets.
No plans on selling. I have the PL - JJP trifecta with DI and Wonka. These pins get the most play by me. Only pin grandkids even play is Toy Story. If I was worried about investments I wouldn't be in the stock market either.
Cheers,
GLWTS,
The worst pins are those not enjoyed.—
—Mediocrates.
Quoted from Palmer:Get over yourself. You are reaching obsessive stalker-like levels posting any time the guys from SDTM do anything. As if you have never sold a game you didn't particularly like but still hyped it up and spoke positively about. Oh, the hypocrisy.
I must’ve missed Delts podcast. And YT channel. Huh…
I DO like SDTM shows. GREG is a hoot. And under NO circumstances will I ever take advice on pin buying after Predator. Ouch.
Quoted from Tomass:Did you guys even consider the fact that if he was being dishonest about his review and didn't actually like it, he wouldn't have bought the game?
Counter arguement: if he got it for a discount, and knowing he's pumping up a review, he probably expected to make money, or at the very least, break even when selling it. Did he think it was total shit and bought it anyhow? Doubtful. But he may have already commited to one before getting it (like most of us).
Quoted from Doctor6:Counter arguement: if he got it for a discount, and knowing he's pumping up a review, he probably expected to make money, or at the very least, break even when selling it. Did he think it was total shit and bought it anyhow? Doubtful. But he may have already commited to one before getting it (like most of us).
It doesn’t seem possible to have a “review channel on YouTube” then become a “distributor” and still have independently minded reviews of games. Why on earth would you publish a negative review of a game you are trying to sell…….
Its called a “conflict of interest”
Quoted from MaxIsDead:It doesn’t seem possible to have a “review channel on YouTube” then become a “distributor” and still have independently minded reviews of games. Why on earth would you publish a negative review of a game you are trying to sell…….
Its called a “conflict of interest”
Remember, we are in a room full of Apex people. Pretty clever, most of em. They’ll be good from here on. 
Quoted from MaxIsDead:It doesn’t seem possible to have a “review channel on YouTube” then become a “distributor” and still have independently minded reviews of games. Why on earth would you publish a negative review of a game you are trying to sell…….
Its called a “conflict of interest”
Blah. Blah. Blah.
Quoted from MaxIsDead:It doesn’t seem possible to have a “review channel on YouTube” then become a “distributor” and still have independently minded reviews of games. Why on earth would you publish a negative review of a game you are trying to sell…….
Its called a “conflict of interest”
Ive watched SDTM for years, since well before they were a distributor. They have never been overly negative. They are pinball fanboys which is what I appreciate about them.
Greg is here offering a game at a great price compared to new, not sure how thats a bad thing, but pinside gonna pinside.
Quoted from jandrea95:Ive watched SDTM for years, since well before they were a distributor. They have never been overly negative. They are pinball fanboys which is what I appreciate about them.
Greg is here offering a game at a great price compared to new, not sure how thats a bad thing, but pinside gonna pinside.
I much prefer SDTM to those shows that parrot the pinside rant of the moment to get clicks with "reviews" that are based only on promo videos that everyone has already seen. Everyone who watches knows these videos are sponsored by a distributor. They at least play the games and give insightful opinions which you don't have to agree with.
I personally don't understand the vitriol from some pinsiders that comes into not just this thread, but almost every thread when someone lists a TS4 for sale.
I don't know if this for sale ad is not moving the game because some folks have pissed all over it and publicly aired their grievances about the seller (fairly or unfairly) or if it's because the price is simply higher than what the market says this game is worth. I have to believe it's the latter because pinheads are pretty good at overlooking all the nonsense on the periphery and ultimately looking at a possible pin buy as "is this a deal or is this not"?
Quoted from Doctor6:Counter arguement: if he got it for a discount, and knowing he's pumping up a review, he probably expected to make money, or at the very least, break even when selling it. Did he think it was total shit and bought it anyhow? Doubtful. But he may have already commited to one before getting it (like most of us).
Right, so he plays it, realizes it totally blows but says I'll buy it and give it a B+ and make bank!
Quoted from usandthem:I don't know if this for sale ad is not moving the game because some folks have pissed all over it and publicly aired their grievances about the seller (fairly or unfairly) or if it's because the price is simply higher than what the market says this game is worth. I have to believe it's the latter because pinheads are pretty good at overlooking all the nonsense on the periphery and ultimately looking at a possible pin buy as "is this a deal or is this not"?
I agree with you. All bullsh** aside, the game would be sold already, if it was a screaming deal at current price.
I hope Bone sells this sooner than later because this title in general imo will keep dropping every month. GL for a quick sale.
On a brighter note…I think it’ll always be priced slightly higher than a GNR LE due to the slightly higher cost out of the gate and there’s no way they’ll end up building 5000 of these like they did GNR.
Quoted from Yesh23:I hope Bone sells this sooner than later because this title in general imo will keep dropping every month. GL for a quick sale.
On a brighter note…I think it’ll always be priced slightly higher than a GNR LE due to the slightly higher cost out of the gate and there’s no way they’ll end up building 5000 of these like they did GNR.
Very debatable that 5000 GnR were actually assembled.
Quoted from Tomass:Right, so he plays it, realizes it totally blows but says I'll buy it and give it a B+ and make bank!
Thank you for actually being some one who thinks for them selves! Unlike guys like Delt, or Jorant who some how want to scream about being unbiased but simply have their own biased agenda to just attack Zach and I! Makes them feel better about their lives I guess. Or maybe they are doing the industry a favor and just looking out for the community and warning them of my wickedness! I don’t really know as I have addressed them before. But they just can’t stop themselves.
Im actually just seeing these comments for the first time.
Iv sold alot of games I buy after a few months.I have limited space like most of you! I still love how the game plays. Like the code. I just don’t care that much for Toy Story as a franchise. Bash and shit on me for all you want. Say I’m a lier, say I’m a shill, but I actually bought the game because of those reasons above. Iv never been a big TS fan but liked the game a lot when I played it and wanted to play the hell out of it, so I bought it. Themes mean alot to me. Take for example LW3 not leaving my house, or JP Lost World. The best playing games don’t necessarily stay long for me, the ones I resonate with and mean something to me stay! Resume your shitting on my forsale post. After years of being in pinball, I’m pretty accustomed to it!
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Or maybe they are doing the industry a favor and just looking out for the community and warning them of my wickedness!
Wait, do you wear red shoes?
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Thank you for actually being some one who thinks for them selves! Unlike guys like Delt, or Jorant who some how want to scream about being unbiased but simply have their own biased agenda to just attack Zach and I! Makes them feel better about their lives I guess. Or maybe they are doing the industry a favor and just looking out for the community and warning them of my wickedness! I don’t really know as I have addressed them before. But they just can’t stop themselves.
Im actually just seeing these comments for the first time.
Iv sold alot of games I buy after a few months.I have limited space like most of you! I still love how the game plays. Like the code. I just don’t care that much for Toy Story as a franchise. Bash and shit on me for all you want. Say I’m a lier, say I’m a shill, but I actually bought the game because of those reasons above. Iv never been a big TS fan but liked the game a lot when I played it and wanted to play the hell out of it, so I bought it. Themes mean alot to me. Take for example LW3 not leaving my house, or JP Lost World. The best playing games don’t necessarily stay long for me, the ones I resonate with and mean something to me stay! Resume your shitting on my forsale post. After years of being in pinball, I’m pretty accustomed to it!
Well said. And I might add as a pinballer I agree with you as it is a main reason to enjoy a game... The Theme. I'm on the opposite spectrum recently and bought TNA CE for few $$$ more than TNA.
So what? It's because I love the THEME and willing to pay for it. So, I agree with your statement... Play the crap at out it, but if the theme is not flowing to you, get rid of it.
My 4-5 max pinball lineup is all the space I got and as you said your in the same position.
Greg, Keep flipping and making smoking vids with ZMeny !!
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Thank you for actually being some one who thinks for them selves! Unlike guys like Delt, or Jorant who some how want to scream about being unbiased but simply have their own biased agenda to just attack Zach and I! Makes them feel better about their lives I guess. Or maybe they are doing the industry a favor and just looking out for the community and warning them of my wickedness! I don’t really know as I have addressed them before. But they just can’t stop themselves.
Im actually just seeing these comments for the first time.
Iv sold alot of games I buy after a few months.I have limited space like most of you! I still love how the game plays. Like the code. I just don’t care that much for Toy Story as a franchise. Bash and shit on me for all you want. Say I’m a lier, say I’m a shill, but I actually bought the game because of those reasons above. Iv never been a big TS fan but liked the game a lot when I played it and wanted to play the hell out of it, so I bought it. Themes mean alot to me. Take for example LW3 not leaving my house, or JP Lost World. The best playing games don’t necessarily stay long for me, the ones I resonate with and mean something to me stay! Resume your shitting on my forsale post. After years of being in pinball, I’m pretty accustomed to it!
Greg, I'm certainly a harsh asshole often, but I didn't think this was one of those times. I even gave you an out saying I doubt you pumped it up "knowing it was shit" just to sell it. That would be idiotic.
I, like many on here, do find it vexing... even wrongful, to constantly rate games so darn highly all the time, knowing full well that Zach sells games for his livelihood. I wouldn't give a darn if you guys either just stuck to old games that he has no vested interest in, or gave legit actual shit reviews on games. I mean, 'holy crap what a turd' crap reviews. Then, I think myself (and many others) would get off your collective backs about the ol' "pump and dump," as people call it. That's all. But for you guys to review this so highly (B+ is a high score, I mean, what is average? What is a C??), only to sell it super shortly thereafter does look "suss."
Before you guys (well, Zach really) sold games, I was a huge fan of yours. Loved the segments and your new to pinball take on things. Now it is hard for me to overlook it. And thanks for the phone number to chat with you, but I feel this pretty well conveys where I am at.
Quoted from elcolonel:Very debatable that 5000 GnR were actually assembled.
I bet the number is at least north of 4,000 and no way TS4 will come close to approaching that number. That should say least keep pricing above GNR theoretically
Quoted from Doctor6:Greg, I'm certainly a harsh asshole often, but I didn't think this was one of those times. I even gave you an out saying I doubt you pumped it up "knowing it was shit" just to sell it. That would be idiotic.
I, like many on here, do find it vexing... even wrongful, to constantly rate games so darn highly all the time, knowing full well that Zach sells games for his livelihood. I wouldn't give a darn if you guys either just stuck to old games that he has no vested interest in, or gave legit actual shit reviews on games. I mean, 'holy crap what a turd' crap reviews. Then, I think myself (and many others) would get off your collective backs about the ol' "pump and dump," as people call it. That's all. But for you guys to review this so highly (B+ is a high score, I mean, what is average? What is a C??), only to sell it super shortly thereafter does look "suss."
Before you guys (well, Zach really) sold games, I was a huge fan of yours. Loved the segments and your new to pinball take on things. Now it is hard for me to overlook it. And thanks for the phone number to chat with you, but I feel this pretty well conveys where I am at.
Gave the same high rating to games back then before he sold games.
Only a few Cs I understand that. But those were, to me just Cs. They are not Ds or Fs. I still enjoyed playing even those games. They were not fails, just not as good as others. You have a whole class of really smart people at MIT. Do you give the bottom of the class D or Fs just because they are in the bottom of the class. Thats how I look at these games. They are still enjoyable to play because it’s pinball and most have redeeming qualities that bring their scores up. Flaw or not it’s how I rate games because I love pinball. I don’t get that from alot of people that just want to bitch and tear people and games apart. You can speak your mind about a game and point out the misses with out being belligerent about the pin or to the people that created it. That’s how we do SDTM.
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Gave the same high rating to games back then before he sold games.
Only a few Cs I understand that. But those were, to me just Cs. They are not Ds or Fs. I still enjoyed playing even those games. They were not fails, just not as good as others. You have a whole class of really smart people at MIT. Do you give the bottom of the class D or Fs just because they are in the bottom of the class. Thats how I look at these games. They are still enjoyable to play because it’s pinball and most have redeeming qualities that bring their scores up. Flaw or not it’s how I rate games because I love pinball. I don’t get that from alot of people that just want to bitch and tear people and games apart. You can speak your mind about a game and point out the misses with out being belligerent about the pin or to the people that created it. That’s how we do SDTM.
Keep up the good work. I agree with you. I’ve never played a game I hated, and wouldn’t rate any a D or worse.
Thunderbirds is a clear F
Monopoly is a clear D
Etc, not everyone gets a participation trophy. Some games just flat out suck. It’s part of life.
Quoted from MaxIsDead:Thunderbirds is a clear F
Monopoly is a clear D
Etc, not everyone gets a participation trophy. Some games just flat out suck. It’s part of life.
Have we reviewed those?
Quoted from Doctor6:Greg, I'm certainly a harsh asshole often, but I didn't think this was one of those times. I even gave you an out saying I doubt you pumped it up "knowing it was shit" just to sell it. That would be idiotic.
I, like many on here, do find it vexing... even wrongful, to constantly rate games so darn highly all the time, knowing full well that Zach sells games for his livelihood. I wouldn't give a darn if you guys either just stuck to old games that he has no vested interest in, or gave legit actual shit reviews on games. I mean, 'holy crap what a turd' crap reviews. Then, I think myself (and many others) would get off your collective backs about the ol' "pump and dump," as people call it. That's all. But for you guys to review this so highly (B+ is a high score, I mean, what is average? What is a C??), only to sell it super shortly thereafter does look "suss."
Before you guys (well, Zach really) sold games, I was a huge fan of yours. Loved the segments and your new to pinball take on things. Now it is hard for me to overlook it. And thanks for the phone number to chat with you, but I feel this pretty well conveys where I am at.
Then don’t watch. Easy. And for god sake, if us reviewing a game and doing a video that we enjoy makes you feel negativity, then don’t waste your time commenting on a dedicated SDTM thread or on someone’s for sale page.
Oh and Toy Story 4 pinball is freaking great 
Quoted from MaxIsDead:Thunderbirds is a clear F
Monopoly is a clear D
Etc, not everyone gets a participation trophy. Some games just flat out suck. It’s part of life.
Even though I do agree with you on thunderbirds. Monopoly isn’t that bad.
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Even though I do agree with you on thunderbirds. Monopoly isn’t that bad.
I mean Monopoly is “playable” but when compared to lots of other titles it just doesn’t stack up and I feel falls short enough to get a D
Quoted from MaxIsDead:I mean Monopoly is “playable” but when compared to lots of other titles it just doesn’t stack up and I feel falls short enough to get a D
Again if we are doing something wrong, I feel the pinball community is more than inviting and open to more opinions. Feel free to shoot us your reviews. We can give you our grading scale and feel free to rate the games we have. Hell send me your grades of TS4 in each category and we will figure them up and see where your final grade stands!!!!
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Thank you for actually being some one who thinks for them selves! Unlike guys like Delt, or Jorant who some how want to scream about being unbiased but simply have their own biased agenda to just attack Zach and I! Makes them feel better about their lives I guess. Or maybe they are doing the industry a favor and just looking out for the community and warning them of my wickedness! I don’t really know as I have addressed them before. But they just can’t stop themselves.
Im actually just seeing these comments for the first time.
Iv sold alot of games I buy after a few months.I have limited space like most of you! I still love how the game plays. Like the code. I just don’t care that much for Toy Story as a franchise. Bash and shit on me for all you want. Say I’m a lier, say I’m a shill, but I actually bought the game because of those reasons above. Iv never been a big TS fan but liked the game a lot when I played it and wanted to play the hell out of it, so I bought it. Themes mean alot to me. Take for example LW3 not leaving my house, or JP Lost World. The best playing games don’t necessarily stay long for me, the ones I resonate with and mean something to me stay! Resume your shitting on my forsale post. After years of being in pinball, I’m pretty accustomed to it!
Thank you for all that you guys do for the hobby. I have first hand experience in the customer service you both provide. I sent an email about my power board a couple weeks back and you reached out to me by phone call to make sure I was taken care of. You are both an asset to the hobby and your customers so I will continue to support Flipnout.
Quoted from Tomass:Thank you for all that you guys do for the hobby. I have first hand experience in the customer service you both provide. I sent an email about my power board a couple weeks back and you reached out to me by phone call to make sure I was taken care of. You are both an asset to the hobby and your customers so I will continue to support Flipnout.
Super appreciate that!!! We really do
Quoted from Hollywoodbone:Gave the same high rating to games back then before he sold games.
Only a few Cs I understand that. But those were, to me just Cs. They are not Ds or Fs. I still enjoyed playing even those games. They were not fails, just not as good as others. You have a whole class of really smart people at MIT. Do you give the bottom of the class D or Fs just because they are in the bottom of the class. Thats how I look at these games. They are still enjoyable to play because it’s pinball and most have redeeming qualities that bring their scores up. Flaw or not it’s how I rate games because I love pinball. I don’t get that from alot of people that just want to bitch and tear people and games apart. You can speak your mind about a game and point out the misses with out being belligerent about the pin or to the people that created it. That’s how we do SDTM.
Let's be honest, we (the community)are rating games compared to all pinball machines so how is any newer game by stern or JJP not gonna rate pretty high on the scale. Look at all the Gottlieb DMDs and you will see C and D rated games. As you said your scores are consistent with the scores you gave before the business. I see it as 2 guys who love the hobby and are excited about the level of games we are getting in this era of pinball.
Quoted from delt31:Sorry but we’re not fooled and thankfully this game is a huge flop.
I’ll never understand why people root for games to be flops. I can’t comment on how good TS4 is as I haven’t played it but I root for every game released to be great because it’s good for the hobby. Lots of schadenfreude on these boards.
Tangent given
Quoted from Yesh23:I bet the number is at least north of 4,000 and no way TS4 will come close to approaching that number. That should say least keep pricing above GNR theoretically
That is a good theory, but a "bad" rare game is still a bad game. I don't think TS4 is bad, but if it is generally considered to be not as much of a keeper as GNR... you have to be a pretty hardcore collector to slot in a less fun game for one that is just more rare.
A collection of sub-par but rare games would be fine I guess, but how many people go out of their way to assemble something like that? I think most of us would go with a more fun game over a more rare one in most cases.
Quoted from Tomass:Yeah, promoting a product you are selling is just crazy.
Giving glowing reviews of a game your selling is a conflict of interest. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you. Zach picked TS4 over RUSH. That’s a you need to know.
Quoted from delt31:I feel bad for the folks that watched their SDTM impressions/hype video, bought in at the full msrp price (not the SDTM/distributor insider price that was likely afforded to Greg - let’s not be naive guys, he technically now works for the company) and now those folks are sitting on a 2k+ plus loss……that will continue to drop and drop in value. 10k is just the start for this hot mess. Too bad those folks aren’t same to get that pricing.
And if Greg bought this at msrp, I would be absolutely shocked, take your word on it but still appalled at how over hyped that impressions video was just to clearly sell the machine from Flip n out. Sorry but I’m not going to ignore like that didn’t happen. It was gross.
Although I won’t blame SDTM 100% since we’re all adults and the buyer should be smart enough to see through the distributor hype that is SDTM so people do need to be held accountable. Just wish SDTM wouldn’t be so ignorant of their clear bias on this but they did a great job clearly demonstrating their shill position to the community. So well done fellas.
Sorry just needed to be said - I won’t be replying as I could care less. I hope you can unload the game. I’m sure the same ol SDTM army will defend but as a community we all know what’s going on. Sorry but we’re not fooled and thankfully this game is a huge flop.
This is what shillers get when they fabricate the truth about their reviews (if the SDTM review was even remotely true, then why is Greg bailing so fast on a basically new game??? Proof buddy, proof TS4 is a loser and you think so too, hence this ad is up so quick.). It happens at SDTM all the time. Why does anyone trust SDTM opinion about anything pinball related??? They’re snake oil salesmen after all, trying to unload their wares on the unsuspecting public. TS4 is way overpriced for what it is by anyone’s stretch of imagination. If it was priced at or below a pro; only then, it might be worth taking a look. But double+ that price, only stooges need apply, lol. Remember JJPs own promo video promoted TS4 as a little girls game to play with her dad. That’s telling all by itself.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Giving glowing reviews of a game your selling is a conflict of interest. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you. Zach picked TS4 over RUSH. That’s a you need to know.
After hearing Zack shill so hard for JJP nonstop, I began to wonder if he really was a Stern distributor???
As long as you view SDTM as an infomercial it's fine. There is other good content on the podcast - it's not just reviews. Just treat the reviews like "overviews" or "first looks".
And why shouldn't they use it to support their business model? The podcast is FREE. You're paying for it by listening to a certain amount of sponsored content. I don't think anyone is "fooled" by this. It's just a clever and relevant way to promote. It's like influencer marketing - it's just a reality now. And often it's the only way you can advertise these days.
And no one is making you listen to it.
Having said that, I really don't get why they still bother "rating" gamesat all. Pinside likes to rant that X new game is the best ever and Y is the worse ever, but in reality most games released now are all pretty good anyway. B, B+, A-, A - who cares. If you like it there is no difference between a B and an A game.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Giving glowing reviews of a game your selling is a conflict of interest. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you. Zach picked TS4 over RUSH. That’s a you need to know.
If you are buying games based on someone else's opinion then I don't know what to tell you.
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:Giving glowing reviews of a game your selling is a conflict of interest. If you don’t see that then I don’t know what to tell you. Zach picked TS4 over RUSH. That’s a you need to know.
But he’s also selling Rush games…So if he rated Rush higher than TS4 that would be ok, because you think it’s a better game? And you happen to own Rush? Busted. If you ever decide to sell that game you better turn comments off because you saying Rush is the greatest game ever will come back to haunt you.
Quoted from jimwe5t:This is what shillers get when they flat out lie about their reviews (if the SDTM review was even remotely true, then why is Greg bailing so fast on a basically new game??? Proof buddy, proof TS4 is a loser and you think so too, hence this ad is up so quick.). It happens at SDTM all the time. Why does anyone trust SDTM opinion about anything pinball related??? They’re snake oil salesmen after all, trying to unload their wares on the unsuspecting public. TS4 is way overpriced for what it is by anyone’s stretch of imagination. If it was priced at or below a pro; only then, it might be worth taking a look. But double+ that price, only stooges need apply, lol. Remember JJPs own promo video promoted TS4 as a little girls game to play with her dad. That’s telling all by itself.
After hearing Zack shill so hard for JJP nonstop, I began to wonder if he really was a Stern distributor???
WOW A STRAIGHT LIE!!!! You call me a liar but then say the game might be worth taking a look at if the price was cheaper? Our rating, which isn’t all that high compared to other games we have rated, does not take into account price. It’s based on what the game is. If the game is a piece of shit as you say I suggest you turn the other way and never look at it.
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