I was under the impression these were selling for 12.5?
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Quoted from TigerLaw:There is a sophisticated scammer in our hobby right now who lists rare and hot games NIB for about 15-20% below market value. He has had some success and made a lot of money in our hobby in a short window; per the reports we’ve received he knows our hobby specific vocabulary and doesn’t come off as an outsider in a short burst. Due to his recent success he is going to be doubling down on pinball and get even better.
That particular Craigslist advertisement looks like it could be him.
what is the scam?
how does it play out?
Quoted from VividPsychosis:Well, this forum debate has been fun to read.
So here we go...
1. I already have an offer for 18 and at 19. Which at this time I won’t be accepting.
2. I bought the game to keep as I am a huge TBL fan and I am also a pinball streamer and it brings a ton of views. It is only for sale due to my families medical issues that we are trying to help them out because we are more blessed than they are.
3. Fuck you. It’s my game and if I was a flipper I wouldn’t have taken it out of the box. If you don’t like the price, don’t buy it and move on from this post. Already know of other sales for 20 and 23k.
4. Fuck you again. My wife’s father has cancer and can no longer walk and my wife’s grandmother is entering the later stages of dementia and needs 24 hour care. Hope you feel good about yourself.
5. I bought a rare game that is highly sought after and isn’t available. It won’t be made again. Let’s get real. Once DP goes out of business for real, this game will go up another 10k. So I am losing money by selling it now, which I am only doing for the reason mentioned above. Otherwise it would never leave my house and no one else would get a chance to own it. So get it if you would like it for 21 due to these circumstances otherwise it would be listed at 25.
6. It’s 21 on here because dealing with you pinside babies means the cost of the machine comes at a premium to buy my game. #pinsidebabies
Have a nice day.
I am not sure you know, but it is VERY likely that TBL will be made by another company in the not so distant future. It is pretty obvious there is a market for the game, even at the 12.5k the most recent batch has been selling for (worth note that more of those are being delivered as they are able which means more supply)
The sales for 20k+ were all before the most recent batch and large supply of secondary market
Good Luck with your sale. Personally, I would take the 19k offer and go be the great person you are and help out your extended family with the profits from the flip. Genuinely! Family is way more important and if you can take an almost 6k profit on something after a month and give that money to a family member to make their limited time appreciably better, then do it!
Quoted from fosaisu:Nice to see you have so much faith in Barry. Most of us hope he somehow gets his shit together and gets production going to cover all those unfulfilled preorders, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it VERY likely.
I have little faith in Barry. I think he will limp another 15-25 games out the door to get to a point where the balance/debt sheet makes sense for a sell out of the company and licensce to make LOTS and LOTS of TBL by a company capable of doing so.
I have been told (and I believe it) that more than one company has looked into and had discussions around this.
We all know of a few companies that could easily pump out these games and would be able to do it for less then the 12.5k they are currently selling for.
The theme is a grand slam, the major legwork is done with all the proto/beta builds with the first 90-110 games out there. There would need to be some improvements and rework but it is at a really good stage for a much bigger company to take it over and run with it.
I think the last factor is, at what point do the books make sense and Barry can walk with some dignity and some more cash in his pocket.
We have seen similar things before and TBL is almost ripe for the picking IMHO.
no idea what he is saying or who his source is, but I was right when I told people that more TBL would be coming out and supply would be doubling (it did with the most recent batch and I presented that info when Kim was selling his TBL from the first run and set the high water mark).
I feel very good about my info that more than one company is actively looking to take over TBL
The reality is that ANY of the following companies could do so:
Stern
CGC
Spooky
Deeproot
AP
Circus Maximus
All of them could use another blockbuster title. Many of them could easily port TBL to their platform, and some of them even have previous TBL sub-contractors affiliated with the current companies.
All of them are also very aware of the current demand and market. While much of that is propped up on rarity of the game currently, there is surely a market for some SuperLEs at 12.5 and then step your way down to a base model (easily pull out that bowling mech and it wont be missed and a big cost savings).
Quoted from CrazyLevi:-Game needs to be re-engineered and redesigned so that it doesn't break every 10 minutes.
that does not seem to be the case. Needs some tweaks but that can easily be done
Quoted from CrazyLevi:-Game needs to be re-engineered and redesigned so that it works with the new company's hardware, software, and any other ware
I thought they were P-roc based for TBL? That is a no fix for some companies
Quoted from CrazyLevi:-possible licensing issues
-possible liability issues
from what I understand there are no licensing issues as those are dealt with
Liability is a complex thing but when crossing the pond some of those things go way down as a risk factor (some would say they even disappear)
EA things also provides an opportunity for some built in good PR for any new company if they help make them whole.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:-for TBL, niche theme that might not translate from sought after curiosity/rarity to mass produced product
we are not needing 2000 to be made. For many companies 500 would be a perfect amount and really put them on the right track. I feel pretty sure they could sell 500 at Stern Premium pricing or JJP standard pricing with almost zero effort. The game and theme resonates with many.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:-Game needs to be re-engineered and redesigned so that it doesn't break every 10 minutes.
what is breaking?
From the ones I have played, the upper flipper needs some adjustment. The rug mech is a bit flakey. The bowling mech could just be removed entirely and not be missed.
The core game hase worked fine and many parts are standard stuff for any company in current state.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The one at sunshine was always broken, at a location with 40 other games and a skilled technician running the place. Always. For like 2 years, with incredibly brief periods of working. So that's my experience with it.
No idea about other location TBLs, if there are any.I'm sorry man, I just don't see the appeal here. "Stern/JJP/Spooky, want to write a bunch of checks to a bunch of pissed off people just so we can crowbar TBL into our production schedule which is already full for the next couple of years? We'll get some good PR!"
I'm not sure even Deep Root has the disposable funds to take on another charity case like this. Don't mistake what happened over there as normal, it is not smart business to pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars or more to former customers just for the privilege of cleaning up some other moron's expensive mistakes. Making ripped off former customers "whole" is not a sane business plan for a one-off remake, especially when you are already successfully producing and selling thousands of pinball machines a year without all of these hassles.
I understand and appreciate that there's "a market" for making more of failed boutique games like TBL and Alien, but it's just the rest of it - the actual process and economic feasibility of making this happen from point A to point Z - that I simply don't get and never will (until someone actually pulls it off, I guess?).
I think you are being far too generous with any idea of taking care of EAs.
Anyone and I mean anyone that buys a license to produce the game has likely zero legal obligation to make EAs whole. Toss on top that once you are takling overseas, lots of things change. I am not sure of any specifics, but pretty sure it would be very difficult for anyone to try and claw back funds from any new company buying off the ability to produce the game. That fight would still be with Barry et al.
A new company could gain a bunch of good will by just making the game. Offer EAs a discounted rate of 8500 to buy a game. Build the rest for 9500 and donate 500 to a fund to help make EAs whole.
How many EAs are out there now? how much money is owed?
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