You forgot: "We are, The Men in Black."

Probably some drunken idiot.

pinballclinic.com

Wow, those prices are nuts even for retail. I only looked at a couple of pins but they are not even restored just decent machines with fancy descriptions and a basic shop job. I love the all caps BRAND NEW batteries install or how about LEDs in most areas. With these prices you think he could spring for nvram and full LEDs.

Goddamn! Those prices are insane. I feel bad for the OP now that I see how he got taken, though this still isn't a $4k game.

They can go to hell. I hope their business burns down to the ground. These people are the reason this hobby has since long derailed. Ripping off 1st time buyers putting them later on, in the similar spot that this O.P currently finds himself to be in with his T2. It sucks... I can hear the conversation taking place when trying to justify the price. "There are only 10 machines left in the world", "You are paying a fair price for Cyclone, only $4300", "You will not find pinball machines anywhere else but here, See this company Williams bought back all the machines but a handfull when they closed down." It is just disgusting....Afterall it's a piece of wood with the cheapest components ever with crap quality...Cyclone for $4300 !!! How the hell does one reason the price to that level and sleep good at night...? There are others as well.. I puke when I see a well known dynamite guy on Youtube insisting his machines are the best in the world thus justifying substandard sys11 games for over $3K...

...wow.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-terminator-2-judgment-day-williams-1991-2014

Are you saying that you support their business model?

Well, he is wearing medical scrubs in his picture on the site, maybe those prices are because he charges medical insurance for them... Dam, those are high priced games!

"Bend over and cough."

You got the bend over part right!

Could be worse though, look what someone paid 4K for on EBay
ebay.com link: STAR WARS TRIOLOGY PINBALL by SEGA CLEAN SHOPPED NICE

Notice the ramp, wrong target, wrong color target towards back, wrong drop targets with no decals, Nice melted red inserts in the middle, X-wing has every tip broken off, and none of the lights under the ramp are working, old black rubbers... "Fully shopped" 4000 bucks paid for this, somehow looking at it on another site told me the price it sold for.

classy

Similar condition and priced to sell.

That's how I keep it, baby.

c16980b9f84e3b0c69882c2eeba65191_(resized).jpg

Does it sound like I support grossly overprized everyday machines being pushed on newcomers ?

Price police is good for pinball? That's rich. A bunch of self righteous talk is all I hear. OP has been insulted and badgered relentlessly over and over. When has the price police helped someone selling a game too cheap? Never because you are too busy buying it and telling everyone what a good deal you got. It might be crazy but how about allowing sellers to put their own price on a game. Buyers get too choose whether said game is worth that price. If game does not sell then seller can reduce price or negotiate lower price with interested potential buyer. If both buyer and seller are happy with deal then that's all that matters. This idea that people not involved in deal in anyway are going to dictate that price for the good of man is ridiculous.

Op education isn't cheap.
If you enjoy T2 keep it, because your not getting that kind of money around here or try Ebay.

There is no problem with that. The problem is when something is being covinced into being in mint condition and a collector's item when in fact it has corrosion and wear.

That's not us; you want the Price Pumpers. There are plenty of them on Pinside too.

If there is a true HUO T2 out there I would love to buy it ! Or a Mint one

Earlier you claimed you had a cash offer in the 3's... People told you to jump on it.

But now you claim it's in the 2's.

What's a TFLE worth now?

let it go people

Why don't you just kill this ad and start a new one without the forum?

Kudos to the op, stayin classy. Keep going, no need to repost another ad. Wish I had somethin to trade or the money outright, but I don't. Nice game, you'll get a deal done.

These people are not "protecting" anyone. They just want something for free and its laughable. Its also the reason I would never list a game for sale on this site. Its your game, list it for what ever you want. If its over-priced it wont sell and you will lower your price. Simple concept but lost on everyone who has nothing better to do than "protect" newbies. What a bunch of garbage.

It's only over priced if it doesn't sell ! Who gives a flying Fu $% what a guy wants for his game anyways ? I work hard and make good money and spend it anyway I want. Cut this guy some slack and go play some pinball

Damn, the price police police are really out tonight.

When I first started looking to buy a pin, google would direct me to sites like the pinball clinic and ebay. I was turned off by the high prices and I continued to search around. I looked to Craigslist and that was all over the place. I finally contacted a guy in a town next to mine. Turned out that he was a respected and reputable pinsider. A truly honest guy. I was lucky that I hooked up with that guy. He is an asset to this hobby. Sorry that you got beat by that Ron character dsmoke. Glad your here though and I hope that you learned from this.

OP, you have your price, although stated by many it is too high based on condition, but it is your right to charge whatever you like for whatever your selling, who knows what will happen. I would suggest you put OBO in the listing since you mentioned you were open to listen to offers. It's a shame the original seller got you into that machine at that price, but at least you still sound like you were pleased with the transaction. Please take a good look at the machine, and compare the pictures to other T2's see if you can spot what others are saying, and maybe you will see what all the fuss is about. Best of luck on the sale, and to you...

PS... I saw Bundy's while he was working on it, I should have bought that game, it was a work of ART!

Definitely a shame! The other guy should be the one catching most of the heat here.

He has the best T2's around!!!

ebay.com link: Williams T2 TERMINATOR 2 Modern Classic Arcade Pinball Machine

Ron is not the guy you are going to get a good deal from, period.

That got me thinking though. Since his price is "serviced baked in", what type of service if any has he provided, and why not ask him to provide some service and help you sell the game so you can look for something else?

This is the nicest T2 I have ever seen other than the NIB I set out on routes.

This HEP T2 went way beyond even the factory specifications. I do mean way beyond including rechroming parts like the gun handle, all NOS parts, and a brand new playfield.

I won't say what it cost, as I people can spend as much as they want.

I just watch the market now, in 5 years people will no longer have large collections of "Top 10" without much deeper pockets than anytime in the history of the hobby.
Cause and effect.

GLWS OP.

01_(resized).jpg

Treasure Cove game (not HEP)

HEP - High End Pins, as referred to restorations, not the company that used the wording for sales. The designation has been around much longer.

HEP originally was designated in the hobby for a machine that had games using NOS playfields / backglasses installed, complete cabinet overhauls with either new decals, silk screening, or stencils, every single metal part being tumble polished, under and on top of the playfield, board component replacement (bridge rectifiers and capacitors) even if there are no problems, along with rewiring and connectors if required.
This takes HUNDREDS of hours to do, not 100 hours or less.
Only a few companies and individuals do this (VERY FEW NOW), and the costs reflect the work, as the machine is essentially restored to factory condition NIB or beyond.

The term is now substantially abused, just like NIB and HUO, as it continues to be misrepresented.

oK.

From Chris Hutchins' other posts on this subject, I think he'd take issue with your proposed history of and definition for the term "HEP". I have only been buying pinball machines for a few years so I don't know how "HEP" was used back in the day, but I can say confidently that on Pinside when people say "HEP" they virtually always mean a machine restored by Chris through his "HEP" business, and that in the rare instances where people describe other nice machines as "HEPs" they are quickly reprimanded by the crowd.

So in practice, at least on Pinside, I don't think it's really like "HUO" which many people will throw on any decent looking machine regardless of whether it's been on route.

He did not create the acronym.
He does not have a copyright or trademark to that acronym.
The acroynym was established long before, http://www.highendpins.com/
This acronym was used long before 2001.

He used it for his business title, which I do not have a problem with anyway, its a free enterprise in the United States.
I must assume it was an excellent choice for his business, as I am not privy to his finances or accounting.
Probably an outstanding choice, in fact.
He could not possibly be offended based on understanding of usage, as he knew that when the title was chosen.

He does great work, but other people have used HEP repeatedly in their sales (or PinSide) when:

1) It was not a HEP (acronym) style restoration
2) It was not restored by Christopher Hutchins.

Therein resides the issue, as stated.
This is no different than when Chad Keller was doing restorations and the people started throwing around "Keller restorations", that Chad never did.

tilting at windmills

So we should find lots of posts in RGP using the "HEP" acronym before Chris started his business, right? Funny, I'm not finding them.

Well, I checked. Multiple posts from 1999-2001, all seemingly misspellings of "help" and not in reference to any "HEP" style restoration. You're confident, as always, but wrong.

Do you have access prior to "LBG"?
"Life Before Google".
Literally thousands of posts were lost in transition, but some can be find on other crawlers in bits and pieces.
Particularly news group postings in the early 90s.
They really did not do a good job in salvage.

Depends on when you first started being involved in the hobby.
I am not one some sort of "magic quest" of defiance in these forums, because this propagates useless arguments.

Post some links or screenshots then. All I see is at the entire pinball community stopped doing "HEP" restorations entirely between 1999 and 2001. I think Chris's use of "HEP" actually started later than that, too.

If collectors/historians/enthusiasts are interested on the full history of this term and when it was actually generated, feel free to PM.
This is not the right thread for this discussion.

GLWS OP.

Never heard or saw the term HEP in association with pinball machines until I started referring to my service and company as High End Pins. Period.
That was around 2004 .
HEP means High End Pins just like TC means Treasure Cove or JJP means Jersey Jack Pinball.

Funny how it's no longer appropriate to discuss here now that you've been called out. Thank you for conceding the point.

I've heard the use of "High end" restorations In my different fields including pinball long before 2001. But never heard High End pins (HEP) before.