(Topic ID: 156349)

For sale: Terminator 2: Judgment Day (Williams, 1991)


By dsmoke1986

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Breaking_Dad
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#151 3 years ago
Quoted from Spock:

The price police will live forever. We are here to help. "We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us."

You forgot: "We are, The Men in Black."

Quoted from altan:

Who is Ron?

Probably some drunken idiot.

#152 3 years ago
Quoted from altan:

"Bought from Ron Clemens for $4500 about a year ago."
Who is Ron?

pinballclinic.com

#153 3 years ago
Quoted from Strummy:

pinballclinic.com

Wow, those prices are nuts even for retail. I only looked at a couple of pins but they are not even restored just decent machines with fancy descriptions and a basic shop job. I love the all caps BRAND NEW batteries install or how about LEDs in most areas. With these prices you think he could spring for nvram and full LEDs.

#154 3 years ago
Quoted from Strummy:

pinballclinic.com

Goddamn! Those prices are insane. I feel bad for the OP now that I see how he got taken, though this still isn't a $4k game.

#155 3 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

Goddamn! Those prices are insane. I feel bad for the OP now that I see how he got taken, though this still isn't a $4k game.

They can go to hell. I hope their business burns down to the ground. These people are the reason this hobby has since long derailed. Ripping off 1st time buyers putting them later on, in the similar spot that this O.P currently finds himself to be in with his T2. It sucks... I can hear the conversation taking place when trying to justify the price. "There are only 10 machines left in the world", "You are paying a fair price for Cyclone, only $4300", "You will not find pinball machines anywhere else but here, See this company Williams bought back all the machines but a handfull when they closed down." It is just disgusting....Afterall it's a piece of wood with the cheapest components ever with crap quality...Cyclone for $4300 !!! How the hell does one reason the price to that level and sleep good at night...? There are others as well.. I puke when I see a well known dynamite guy on Youtube insisting his machines are the best in the world thus justifying substandard sys11 games for over $3K...

#156 3 years ago
Quoted from Flippermatt:

They can go to fucking hell. I hope their business burns down to the ground with the owners inside. These people are the reason this hobby has since long derailed. Ripping off 1st time buyers putting them later on, in the similar spot that this threadstarter currently finds himself to be in with his T2. It's sucks... I can hear the conversation taking place when trying to justify the price. "There are only 10 machines left in the world", "You are paying a fair price for Cyclone, only $4300", "You will not find pinball machines anywhere else but here, See this company Williams bought back all the machines but a handfull when they closed down." It is just disgusting....Afterall it's a piece of wood with the cheapest components ever with crap quality...Cyclone for $4300 !!! How the hell does one reason the price to that level and sleep good at night...? There are orhers as well.. I puke when I see a well known dynamite guy on Youtube insisting his machines are the best in the world thus justifying the pricing....

...wow.

#158 3 years ago
Quoted from Flippermatt:

They can go to fucking hell. I hope their business burns down to the ground with the owners inside. These people are the reason this hobby has since long derailed. Ripping off 1st time buyers putting them later on, in the similar spot that this threadstarter currently finds himself to be in with his T2. It's sucks... I can hear the conversation taking place when trying to justify the price. "There are only 10 machines left in the world", "You are paying a fair price for Cyclone, only $4300", "You will not find pinball machines anywhere else but here, See this company Williams bought back all the machines but a handfull when they closed down." It is just disgusting....Afterall it's a piece of wood with the cheapest components ever with crap quality...Cyclone for $4300 !!! How the hell does one reason the price to that level and sleep good at night...? There are orhers as well.. I puke when I see a well known dynamite guy on Youtube insisting his machines are the best in the world thus justifying the pricing....

Are you saying that you support their business model?

#159 3 years ago

Well, he is wearing medical scrubs in his picture on the site, maybe those prices are because he charges medical insurance for them... Dam, those are high priced games!

#160 3 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

Well, he is wearing medical scrubs in his picture on the site, maybe those prices are because he charges medical insurance for them... Dam, those are high priced games!

"Bend over and cough."

#161 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

"Bend over and cough."

You got the bend over part right!

#162 3 years ago

Could be worse though, look what someone paid 4K for on EBay
ebay.com link » Star Wars Triology Pinball By Sega Clean Shopped Nice

Notice the ramp, wrong target, wrong color target towards back, wrong drop targets with no decals, Nice melted red inserts in the middle, X-wing has every tip broken off, and none of the lights under the ramp are working, old black rubbers... "Fully shopped" 4000 bucks paid for this, somehow looking at it on another site told me the price it sold for.

#164 3 years ago

Similar condition and priced to sell.

That's how I keep it, baby.

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#165 3 years ago
Quoted from Hougie:

Are you saying that you support their business

Are you saying that you support their business model?

Does it sound like I support grossly overprized everyday machines being pushed on newcomers ?

#166 3 years ago

Price police is good for pinball? That's rich. A bunch of self righteous talk is all I hear. OP has been insulted and badgered relentlessly over and over. When has the price police helped someone selling a game too cheap? Never because you are too busy buying it and telling everyone what a good deal you got. It might be crazy but how about allowing sellers to put their own price on a game. Buyers get too choose whether said game is worth that price. If game does not sell then seller can reduce price or negotiate lower price with interested potential buyer. If both buyer and seller are happy with deal then that's all that matters. This idea that people not involved in deal in anyway are going to dictate that price for the good of man is ridiculous.

#167 3 years ago

Op education isn't cheap.
If you enjoy T2 keep it, because your not getting that kind of money around here or try Ebay.

#168 3 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Price police is good for pinball? That's rich. A bunch of self righteous talk is all I hear. OP has been insulted and badgered relentlessly over and over. When has the price police helped someone selling a game too cheap? Never because you are too busy buying it and telling everyone what a good deal you got. It might be crazy but how about allowing sellers to put their own price on a game. Buyers get too choose whether said game is worth that price. If game does not sell then seller can reduce price or negotiate lower price with interested potential buyer. If both buyer and seller are happy with deal then that's all that matters. This idea that people not involved in deal in anyway are going to dictate that price for the good of man is ridiculous.

There is no problem with that. The problem is when something is being covinced into being in mint condition and a collector's item when in fact it has corrosion and wear.

#169 3 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

When has the price police helped someone selling a game too cheap?

That's not us; you want the Price Pumpers. There are plenty of them on Pinside too.

#170 3 years ago

If there is a true HUO T2 out there I would love to buy it ! Or a Mint one

#171 3 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Price police is good for pinball? That's rich. A bunch of self righteous talk is all I hear. OP has been insulted and badgered relentlessly over and over. When has the price police helped someone selling a game too cheap? Never because you are too busy buying it and telling everyone what a good deal you got. It might be crazy but how about allowing sellers to put their own price on a game. Buyers get too choose whether said game is worth that price. If game does not sell then seller can reduce price or negotiate lower price with interested potential buyer. If both buyer and seller are happy with deal then that's all that matters. This idea that people not involved in deal in anyway are going to dictate that price for the good of man is ridiculous.

Agreed. The same people who claim to be price police and are protecting buyers are the same ones to brag about buying a pin for dirt cheap from some grandparents off a CL ad.

I might add that these are the same people who underbid on my TFLE, offering me 3k for it and such. Bunch of BS.

I never said 4K firm. There is room for negotiation obviously. I have a couple trade offers and cash offers in the 2's. Will just wait it out. I don't have to sell it, I stated that early on. It's a badass pin and I love the game, so I would need a strong offer to sell it. I'm the owner and can price it how I want to, I don't need Pinside splash page to dictate that to me.

#172 3 years ago

Earlier you claimed you had a cash offer in the 3's... People told you to jump on it.

Quoted from dsmoke1986:

Well, I already have an offer in the low 3's

But now you claim it's in the 2's.

Quoted from dsmoke1986:

cash offers in the 2's

#173 3 years ago
Quoted from dsmoke1986:

Agreed. The same people who claim to be price police and are protecting buyers are the same ones to brag about buying a pin for dirt cheap from some grandparents off a CL ad.
I might add that these are the same people who underbid on my TFLE, offering me 3k for it and such. Bunch of BS.
I never said 4K firm. There is room for negotiation obviously. I have a couple trade offers and cash offers in the 2's. Will just wait it out. I don't have to sell it, I stated that early on. It's a badass pin and I love the game, so I would need a strong offer to sell it. I'm the owner and can price it how I want to, I don't need Pinside splash page to dictate that to me.

What's a TFLE worth now?

-1
#174 3 years ago

let it go people

#175 3 years ago

Why don't you just kill this ad and start a new one without the forum?

#176 3 years ago

Kudos to the op, stayin classy. Keep going, no need to repost another ad. Wish I had somethin to trade or the money outright, but I don't. Nice game, you'll get a deal done.

#177 3 years ago
Quoted from dsmoke1986:

Agreed. The same people who claim to be price police and are protecting buyers are the same ones to brag about buying a pin for dirt cheap from some grandparents off a CL ad.
I might add that these are the same people who underbid on my TFLE, offering me 3k for it and such. Bunch of BS.
I never said 4K firm. There is room for negotiation obviously. I have a couple trade offers and cash offers in the 2's. Will just wait it out. I don't have to sell it, I stated that early on. It's a badass pin and I love the game, so I would need a strong offer to sell it. I'm the owner and can price it how I want to, I don't need Pinside splash page to dictate that to me.

These people are not "protecting" anyone. They just want something for free and its laughable. Its also the reason I would never list a game for sale on this site. Its your game, list it for what ever you want. If its over-priced it wont sell and you will lower your price. Simple concept but lost on everyone who has nothing better to do than "protect" newbies. What a bunch of garbage.

#178 3 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Earlier you claimed you had a cash offer in the 3's... People told you to jump on it.

But now you claim it's in the 2's.

I had an initial offer in the low 3's, but buyer decided to get a different pin that was available. I have standing offers in the 2's. Again, no rush. If right offer comes along I will sell.

#179 3 years ago

It's only over priced if it doesn't sell ! Who gives a flying Fu $% what a guy wants for his game anyways ? I work hard and make good money and spend it anyway I want. Cut this guy some slack and go play some pinball

#180 3 years ago

Damn, the price police police are really out tonight.

#181 3 years ago

When I first started looking to buy a pin, google would direct me to sites like the pinball clinic and ebay. I was turned off by the high prices and I continued to search around. I looked to Craigslist and that was all over the place. I finally contacted a guy in a town next to mine. Turned out that he was a respected and reputable pinsider. A truly honest guy. I was lucky that I hooked up with that guy. He is an asset to this hobby. Sorry that you got beat by that Ron character dsmoke. Glad your here though and I hope that you learned from this.

#182 3 years ago

OP, you have your price, although stated by many it is too high based on condition, but it is your right to charge whatever you like for whatever your selling, who knows what will happen. I would suggest you put OBO in the listing since you mentioned you were open to listen to offers. It's a shame the original seller got you into that machine at that price, but at least you still sound like you were pleased with the transaction. Please take a good look at the machine, and compare the pictures to other T2's see if you can spot what others are saying, and maybe you will see what all the fuss is about. Best of luck on the sale, and to you...

PS... I saw Bundy's while he was working on it, I should have bought that game, it was a work of ART!

#183 3 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

It's a shame the original seller got you into that machine at that price

Definitely a shame! The other guy should be the one catching most of the heat here.

#184 3 years ago
Quoted from sevenrites:

Definitely a shame! The other guy should be the one catching most of the heat here.

He has the best T2's around!!!

ebay.com link » Williams T2 Terminator 2 Modern Classic Arcade Pinball Machine

#185 3 years ago

Ron is not the guy you are going to get a good deal from, period.

That got me thinking though. Since his price is "serviced baked in", what type of service if any has he provided, and why not ask him to provide some service and help you sell the game so you can look for something else?

#186 3 years ago

This is the nicest T2 I have ever seen other than the NIB I set out on routes.

This HEP T2 went way beyond even the factory specifications. I do mean way beyond including rechroming parts like the gun handle, all NOS parts, and a brand new playfield.

I won't say what it cost, as I people can spend as much as they want.

I just watch the market now, in 5 years people will no longer have large collections of "Top 10" without much deeper pockets than anytime in the history of the hobby.
Cause and effect.

GLWS OP.

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#187 3 years ago

Treasure Cove game (not HEP)

-12
#188 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Treasure Cove game (not HEP)

HEP - High End Pins, as referred to restorations, not the company that used the wording for sales. The designation has been around much longer.

HEP originally was designated in the hobby for a machine that had games using NOS playfields / backglasses installed, complete cabinet overhauls with either new decals, silk screening, or stencils, every single metal part being tumble polished, under and on top of the playfield, board component replacement (bridge rectifiers and capacitors) even if there are no problems, along with rewiring and connectors if required.
This takes HUNDREDS of hours to do, not 100 hours or less.
Only a few companies and individuals do this (VERY FEW NOW), and the costs reflect the work, as the machine is essentially restored to factory condition NIB or beyond.

The term is now substantially abused, just like NIB and HUO, as it continues to be misrepresented.

11
#190 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

HEP - High End Pins, as referred to restorations, not the company that used the wording for sales. The designation has been around much longer.
HEP originally was designated in the hobby for a machine that had games using NOS playfields / backglasses installed, complete cabinet overhauls with either new decals, silk screening, or stencils, every single metal part being tumble polished, under and on top of the playfield, board component replacement (bridge rectifiers and capacitors) even if there are no problems, along with rewiring and connectors if required.
This takes HUNDREDS of hours to do, not 100 hours or less.
Only a few companies and individuals do this (VERY FEW NOW), and the costs reflect the work, as the machine is essentially restored to factory condition NIB or beyond.
The term is now substantially abused, just like NIB and HUO, as it continues to be misrepresented.

From Chris Hutchins' other posts on this subject, I think he'd take issue with your proposed history of and definition for the term "HEP". I have only been buying pinball machines for a few years so I don't know how "HEP" was used back in the day, but I can say confidently that on Pinside when people say "HEP" they virtually always mean a machine restored by Chris through his "HEP" business, and that in the rare instances where people describe other nice machines as "HEPs" they are quickly reprimanded by the crowd.

So in practice, at least on Pinside, I don't think it's really like "HUO" which many people will throw on any decent looking machine regardless of whether it's been on route.

-10
#191 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

From Chris Hutchins' other posts on this subject, I think he'd take issue with your proposed history of and definition for the term "HEP". I have only been buying pinball machines for a few years so I don't know how "HEP" was used back in the day, but I can say confidently that on Pinside when people say "HEP" they virtually always mean a machine restored by Chris through his "HEP" business, and that in the rare instances where people describe other nice machines as "HEPs" they are quickly reprimanded by the crowd.
So in practice, at least on Pinside, I don't think it's really like "HUO" which many people will throw on any decent looking machine regardless of whether it's been on route.

He did not create the acronym.
He does not have a copyright or trademark to that acronym.
The acroynym was established long before, http://www.highendpins.com/
This acronym was used long before 2001.

He used it for his business title, which I do not have a problem with anyway, its a free enterprise in the United States.
I must assume it was an excellent choice for his business, as I am not privy to his finances or accounting.
Probably an outstanding choice, in fact.
He could not possibly be offended based on understanding of usage, as he knew that when the title was chosen.

He does great work, but other people have used HEP repeatedly in their sales (or PinSide) when:

1) It was not a HEP (acronym) style restoration
2) It was not restored by Christopher Hutchins.

Therein resides the issue, as stated.
This is no different than when Chad Keller was doing restorations and the people started throwing around "Keller restorations", that Chad never did.

#192 3 years ago

tilting at windmills

#193 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

He did not create the acronym.
He does not have a copyright or trademark to that acronym.
The acroynym was established long before, http://www.highendpins.com/
This acronym was used long before 2001.
He used it for his business title, which I do not have a problem with anyway, its a free enterprise in the United States.
I must assume it was an excellent choice for his business, as I am not privy to his finances or accounting.
Probably an outstanding choice, in fact.
He could not possibly be offended based on understanding of usage, as he knew that when the title was chosen.
He does great work, but other people have used HEP repeatedly in their sales (or PinSide) when:
1) It was not a HEP (acronym) style restoration
2) It was not restored by Christopher Hutchins.
Therein resides the issue, as stated.
This is no different than when Chad Keller was doing restorations and the people started throwing around "Keller restorations", that Chad never did.

So we should find lots of posts in RGP using the "HEP" acronym before Chris started his business, right? Funny, I'm not finding them.

#194 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

This acronym was used long before 2001.

Well, I checked. Multiple posts from 1999-2001, all seemingly misspellings of "help" and not in reference to any "HEP" style restoration. You're confident, as always, but wrong.

-5
#195 3 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

So we should find lots of posts in RGP using the "HEP" acronym before Chris started his business, right? Funny, I'm not finding them.

Do you have access prior to "LBG"?
"Life Before Google".
Literally thousands of posts were lost in transition, but some can be find on other crawlers in bits and pieces.
Particularly news group postings in the early 90s.
They really did not do a good job in salvage.

Depends on when you first started being involved in the hobby.
I am not one some sort of "magic quest" of defiance in these forums, because this propagates useless arguments.

#196 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Do you have access prior to "LBG"?
"Life Before Google".
Literally thousands of posts were lost in transition, but some can be find on other crawlers in bits and pieces.
They really did not do a good job in salvage.
Depends on when you first started being involved in the hobby.

Post some links or screenshots then. All I see is at the entire pinball community stopped doing "HEP" restorations entirely between 1999 and 2001. I think Chris's use of "HEP" actually started later than that, too.

-6
#197 3 years ago

If collectors/historians/enthusiasts are interested on the full history of this term and when it was actually generated, feel free to PM.
This is not the right thread for this discussion.

GLWS OP.

16
#198 3 years ago

Never heard or saw the term HEP in association with pinball machines until I started referring to my service and company as High End Pins. Period.
That was around 2004 .
HEP means High End Pins just like TC means Treasure Cove or JJP means Jersey Jack Pinball.

#199 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

If collectors/historians/enthusiasts are interested on the full history of this term and when it was actually generated, feel free to PM.
This is not the right thread for this discussion.
GLWS OP.

Funny how it's no longer appropriate to discuss here now that you've been called out. Thank you for conceding the point.

#200 3 years ago
Quoted from High_End_Pins:

Never heard or saw the term HEP in assocoation of pinball machines until I started referring to my service and company as High End Pins. Period.
That was around 2004 .
HEP means High End Pins just like TC means Treasure Cove or JJP means Jersey Jack Pinball.

I've heard the use of "High end" restorations In my different fields including pinball long before 2001. But never heard High End pins (HEP) before.

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