Well played, my friend. Well played!

Well said and exactly my point. That said some games on pinside are lower than the local market. Supply and demand based on your area.

Your example is only one of the free market winning if the buyer was aware that they were over paying for that TZ. Otherwise it's an example of the seller capitalizing on the buyer's ignorance.

Helping buyers make informed decisions is exactly what responsible friendly pinheads do. A new buyer is more likely to be ignorant of market conditions and potentially get screwed by someone.

Let's be realistic. Even though the seller didn't create a forum thread when he was selling this game in August, I don't think the "price police" would have swooped in at his price of 8500. It's simply the fact that it is now 10k a couple months later. And of course he is free to ask whatever he wants for his game. Hell, ask 15k like Stern. But it will get pointed out that it is a very high price by people. The interesting part of Pinside is that the ad here becomes almost useless. Anyone who sees it will read this and know the game is very overpriced. If the seller didn't want that, they didn't need to create a thread.

And also yes, LOTR is probably a much better game than the overpriced stuff Stern and JJP is puttin out right now. I own one, and I would hate to see the price of it climb to 10k. The higher they go, the less the number of people can get to own them. And I think everyone should have the opportunity to own LOTR at least once.

When it comes down to it, the buyer sets the price, not the seller. If no one is willing to pay the OP's asking price, it simply won't sell.

Classy statement

A friend recently picked up a LOTR at auction for just over 3k. Sure it wasn't the LE and needed to be cleaned up a bit but its in nice shape and plays great now. OP can ask whatever he wants. Ask 12 or 15k for that matter. In the end of the day there are plenty of LOTR's out there and the Supply & Demand for this title doesn't justify the 10k asking price.

$10,000 THOUSAND DOLLARS??

Gary Stern approves!

IMG_8348 (resized).JPG

Is there an application process we need to go through in order to be picked by the OP to have the honor of buying this pin? And, once we own it, can we sell it within 18 months? Or do we have to give the OP a chance to buy it back first?

Is this the LE, or Super LE LOTR?

I like these ads. Gives people something to do. Keeps'em off the streets.

Nope he new the price as was a pinside member but wanted the best was his point. I would not have paid that price but he was happy too.

200_s (resized).png

On the other hand, maybe if people were actually paying 10k for second-hand LOTRS (which we are not) then Stern would take notice and make a VE for us, and then lots more people (like me) could have the chance could have the chance to own this modern classic!

And then stern would charge 10k+ for it.

Ironman VE and Spiderman VE were not less than what the collector market was already asking.

^^^This. After the announcement of BM66, I personally believe that when the Hobbit license runs out we will see a LoTR with an LCD along with a hefty price tag.

Service rails and a non-ghosting playfield will raise the price to 12K.

I'd sell mine to the first person who offers me $9K - shipping not included of course!

And you gotta come get it out of my basement...

IMVE was way less than IM 2010 market price. SMVE was substantially more than original SM market price.

Still a better deal than bm66sle or di-ce at least you know your getting an amazing game.

Iron Man VE was more then 1k less then what collectors were asking for original IM's

That's when Stern was still pricing reasonably off BOM and labor. Next came minimum pricing requirements...mod gate... and then total blood sucking cash grab!

For a modded out huo yes. For a run of the mil average routed one not so much. Which is still the case with machines now. Lotta people ask well above sterns nib price for their modded huo machines.

Nope. As an IM owner I saw the value of mine drop by about $1000 (possibly more) overnight. People just could not pry IMs from their owners before the VE:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtt-nice-afm-for-iron-man

Oh, and then there was this fiasco, where Cointaker wanted $6500 for their IM, prompting Black_Rose to switch allegiances to Comet LEDs:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-looking-for-a-im

BR actually never switched. Bought IMVE from cointaker.

I never seen that thread but after just reading over it I get no indication that B_R switched supporting CT leds for COMETS. He was actually supportive of Chris making the sale.

He did briefly, or at least posted some pro-Comet stuff. Even discussed his "stock" in cointaker as part of the betrayal (of sorts).

*saw. You never *saw* that thread.

Could have been in another thread, or maybe B_R edited his post, but he definitely was posting some pro-Comet stuff at the time.

I seriously doubt we will ever see another IMVE again. That was such an awesome thing. A machine selling at WAY above market, and Stern comes out and drops the bomb of the VE at the Pro price point. I thought they were nuts because I didn't think the market for IM would be able to deal with that many more, but then I ended up owning one. But now they know they can raise the price and sell them, so up they go. Anyone waiting for a TronVE or a LOTRVE should stop waiting. It will make the price of this LOTR game almost seem reasonable. Oh, and OP, good lick with your sale (see, that is what you call an on topic closing to a post).

BR never left Cointaker. He expressed frustration, but that's it. We are good friends, and as I said bought IMVE from Cointaker. He does videos from my collection for them. End of story.

I'll bet they vault it someday with something else in place of the path of the dead, throw in the lcd & revise the sword lock. Might outsell GB

IIRC there was an IM situation where a Stern distro stated an IM was HUO when it was later said (by others) to be routed & all that SHTF right before IMVE was announced which the distro was accused of knowing before he put his IM up for sale.

Sorta like insider trading & misrepresentation of a bond rating but with pinball... Pinsider trading lol

Swore it was CT & BR but what do I know?

I just put in an order with CT tho

That was the Cointaker/B_R thread above. Cointaker didn't claim it was HUO, just that it was one-owner and mint. Then B_R outed it as a game on route. Lots of corn was popped that night on pinside.

I bought my. GOT from them, and let's just say I really ended up needing the great service they provide when things go wrong. They took great care of me.

Love it. I'm going to steal that line.

If they do I they would most likely have to use the books instead of the movies due to licensing. Would lose a lot of the character.

Safe to say any future VE will be tweaked a little and the cost will be super high. Acdc, Lotr, Tron, FG, POTC all will be $7500 miniumum and $8000 with a new screen. Days of IM ve for $4700 delivered NIB compared to a routed IM for $5700, if you were lucky enough to find one, are gone.

It is too bad.

What happened to BR. He's gone silent??

If you are implying that Whitestar & Sam system VE's are going to be converted to the Spike system .... Not going to happen

GLWS.

Let consider something outside the nature of this LOTR LE.
VEs are not the "wave of the future", unless Stern is really hurting required money during the next stall, which already happened in the past.
Rethemes and reruns are the future, along with new titles as long as the market is supports new game sales and eventually Stern "The Pin" v2.0 when the market is peaked on cost for commercial titles, which is coming within the next two years.
LEs will eventually "stop pooping out" at the current rate of speed.
BM66 SLE was a test of the "Stern Pricing Emergency Broadcast System" by merging a retheme with the LE concept.
Quite crafty, I must say, and there are certainly 80 people that took the bait 100% for $$$$.

Personally, I don't care if Stern "raises the roof" on their games to $50K.
It will actually help collectors in the long run, as the market will accelerate to stall, and prices will drop.
There may be even a few good closeout overstocks to capitalize on, including those companies that drop out of the pinball race.
Smart collectors will swoop in with cash in hand.

For assistance for production numbers for those that are unaware, LOTR has already been rerun NINE times including the LE.
Stern could easily do it over and over again, if needed, to satiate the needs of the market.
They already have before as long as the orders keep moving.
Understand the strategies of the industry as Stern is preparing for the future (such as the new "home edition" machine), although Stern is making a new mistake by focusing exclusively on the home market with no fallback to operators whatsoever.
"Bad move, human."
The last time was a fight to focus on operators versus home market (before the big forced "change" by the Stern advisory council to the home market to Gary Stern) which if not had happened, Stern could have potentially caused the company to go bankrupt.
Fortunately, some people had some common sense.

This game title will never be converted to an upgraded system, it makes no financial sense, as the code would have to be reworked, along with playfield design. They can just charge a "modern" price for the same game and manufacture, and new potential owners will buy the game just the same, as they will never know the difference. In fact, they can still remove basic game features like maintenance rails, and people still would not cry wolf.

If enthusiasts do not understand the differences between original, reruns, reproductions, remakes, rethemes, and the other major terms that describe the production of pinball machines (or any other collectible), read my latest published pinball article in the next couple of days.
LOTR cannot be a reproduction if made with a SAM or SPIKE system (which will not happen), if it uses differently designed parts and technology. That is a remake, and yes it does make a difference to collectors not necessarily owners or players.

As defined in the collecting world this LOTR LE is a RETHEME not RERUN of the original (although the rerun argument could be debated since technically it is the same game as a new title subcategory game), due to changes in production such as the real backglass, thereby making it worth more in this particular case.
Regardless, the market still determines the value.

GLWS (resized).jpg

He was saying that the pricing model of IMVE is gone. One and done. It doesn't matter what the platform is. There is no way we will see a Tron or LOTR at the "less than 5k street price" again. I'd be surprised if a VE was below 6k unless it just squeaks in at 5800.

I have heard that the price of the "penis-beard" LE were up...or down.... whatever

lotr_hair_dick (resized).jpg

This sounds like a job for Marshall Lucky...

Of course the pricing model exists, just in a different form.
What platform you may ask?
What is this new VE name?

It is called Stern "The Pin" v2.0.
The future Stern subsidized "Pro" model.

Stern won't necessarily release it until the market peaks out on Premium and LE sales for profit.
Stern is patiently waiting, watching the market, and tweaking and finishing the product for consumer sales.
They cannot guarantee its success, but they will use the game type in their "pinball kit bag" when its time comes.
They don't want to be left with an open bag when new game sales eventually stall.

How is this still available?

I see that a LOTR LE popped up on Mr. Pinball classified's this morning for $6900.00. Description says "Game is very much still like new."

You have the same thing on the regular LOTR:

lotr_bg (resized).jpg

https://isitchristmas.com/

That is no where near as bad as LOTR-HD (Hair Dick).

And in person with that mirror outline once you see it you can't un-see it