Hot Wheels
American Pinball, 2020You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider whysnow.
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Quoted from Ferret:Why not?
Not an appealing theme to many.
Combined with the uninspired layout and price point for how stripped down it is, it is a game likely not to hold the attention of most.
Love that you are on the team now and what you will bring but man do they need to find a decent theme for once.
Quoted from Ferret:You can like the theme or not like it, and for that matter like the game or not like it. But I think it's hard to objectively say that Hot Wheels is stripped down for a NIB game at its price point (similar to a Stern Pro). Hot Wheels comes standard with multiple spinners, multiple up/down drop targets, multiple saucers, multiple ramps, boatloads of targets, a multi-purpose magnet, high-speed kicker lane, ~140 independently-controlled full-RGB LEDs, side art blades, lenticular backpanel art, real backglass, a good sound system, and I believe the free shaker motor promo is still running. What part of that is stripped down?
It is less than Stern pro in total package for more money. Sorry but you are going up against games like JP2, maiden, TWD, Deadpool, gotg, etc.
Those games all have more to them, more cohesive assets, an actual toy (everybody wants a toy to interact with), and those games are $1000 less.
AP just won’t be able to compete by putting out less and asking more.
If you were actually AT stern price point then I think you had a chance. Reality is that the game won’t hold value and will settle at or below Oktoberfest and Houdini prices down the road and collectors now see that trend.
From a marketing perspective IMHO and exp, you should have just said this was a limited run of 750 from the start as that would have helped sell them all out and even a slightly higher price point.
Instead they picked a poor theme, made the key feature the spinning stick toy of distraction, and priced it higher than the competition.
You will get your few vocal fans and I am happy for them that they got a theme and game they like. Reality is that these have zero buzz and even distributors are dropping them for less already.
Sorry and hope the next theme is something that can let your talents shine. What you are bringing to that team as for code and overall integration is great and the first real thing to make me consider AP as viable for purchase.
Quoted from rosh:I don’t think it is has less that a stern pro, regardless, the question is which machine gives you more entertainment and fun for the dollar and those who have played Hot wheels, learned a little bit about the rules know, it offers a lot of fun, challenge and entertainment for the money.
I think people should play it before deciding if it is a better or worse value relative to other games. If you have not flipped it you really don’t know what the game offers.
I Would normally agree, but based on sales and Covid (no shows) the chances of most playing it are slim and none. Forced to make purchasing decisions on streams and pr materials.
Also as a guy that owns a bunch of games and plays/played almost every game made in the modern era, it is pretty clear that the extra price point of hotwheels is not justified from watching the available content and streams. It is for sure your best game to date, but the bar was set pretty low till now.
If it was 5600 shipped to my door (Sterns are actually cheaper if you shop around, but I’ll give you the benefit of typical retail), then I would be interested in possibly trying it out. At 6300 (sorry, the shaker is a joke and not an up sell for me personally) then I am not buying for home or for route. Hot wheels is simply priced too high for what it offers, compared to your direct competition, and based on likely resale drop.
Honestly hope the best for you guys, but AP seems to continually screw up yet be so close to making something happen.
Personally, I hope you guys have a good theme coming for your next title and choose to either put more in to justify the price point, are smart enough to make a limited run to help hold a resale value, or lower the price to actually compete. You currently are missing the mark by just a little in all areas and the combination is a failure in my opinion. I know you will take this wrong, but I would not even share the feedback if I did not see the potential.
Quoted from bigehrl:what extra stuff does Rick and Morty offer for the $7000 base model price point? It's not exactly jam-packed with toys or extras. don't get me wrong, i love the game and think it's super fun. But based on your argument about 'price' Vs. 'Toys, bells and whistles', seems like you've got a double standard.
Overall
WAY better theme, better integration all around, better ruleset, and a limited product which made it way easier to take the plunge.
For specifics of just game stuff. Much better shot layout, art, lighting, music, real backglass. 3 flippers, magnasave, and a whole second trough for staged balls plus the toy actually feels like it interacts (perfect example of how a spinning car can feel so stupid, but a bouncing ship can feel integrated and interactive)
The silly part of this comparison is that hotwheels is much further away from Rick and Morty and much closer to a Stern Pro.
AP somehow found the perfectly crappy middle point between Stern pro and spooky price but is unable to actually provide as much as Rick and Morty and be able to claim they are a deal, or justify being more that a Stern pro and having a value to justify the extra cost.
Sad/funny is that they will likely never sell even 500 of these, but if they had announced from the start that they would do a limited run of 500-750, then they would have been fine and likely sold them out quickly.
Quoted from bigehrl:is there anything you won't say before admitting you're wrong? i'm questioning whether you've even played it. cuz there is basically no functional difference between the spinning car and the bouncing ship, so let's just do away with that silly debate point. that said, they're both universally loved themes, and lots of fun. both have slightly unique features, that collectively probably add up to ABOUT the same BOM. they're at least not drastically different enough in "stuff they have" to criticize one by comparing it to the other. and frankly, after all is said and done with add ons and shipping etc. the RaM comes closer to $10k delivered vs. $6400 for Hot Wheels, so to compare them price-wise is also incredibly off. if you just don't like it, fine, that's your opinion. but to bust out all these feature differences, and world-wide hate for the theme as your reasoning for it being unsellable, well that's just you being you.
Not sure WTH you are paying 10k for Rick and Morty?!?!?!?
Talkin about whirly dirly BS.
Price is 7k. 7600 for the blood sucker edition.
If your point is that it already sells for over 10k, then I don’t think it is helping your argument.
I am 100% right and the secondary market already shows it.
Brand new hot wheels from dealers are already slipping and there are less than 100 games out there.
Hotwheels is an out dated theme that was not executed well (game lacks a single jump ramp or loop; I mean come on...). This is really not even up for debate. The biggest thing people mention about this game is the stupid spinning car.
Quoted from spoke:This is typical of a thread where whysnow pipes in one some ridiculous statements based on his preconception of things: spooky is great, no matter what, AP is always terrible and he needs to tell everyone (why else would he be in this thread), "but I'm rooting for them" -- a feeble attempt to try to hide his obvious bias, and with Stern, he will hate a game, rip on it, and then later buy it, with some lame justification for why it suddenly makes sense to buy it.
He thens continues to post non stop to try to support his statements when it is clear it is based on his pre-conceptions of things, not facts or real world experience. 'Real backglass', which unless something has changed, has always been standard on AP games. As pointed out above the 'spinning car' (yeah, not a great toy, but we have certainly seen a lot worse), not that different than a 'bouncing ship'. Lighting, seriously?, from what I have seen pretty kick ass, even if you want to argue R&M is better, it is certainly not some great differentiator and justifier of the higher cost, oh, but wait, I forgot, it has a third flipper, well that is worth $700 more, oh, a the 'ball trough to stage balls' which I believe Houdini had. Suspect if you lined up the mechanical features, betting they would be pretty similar. Oh, and lets not forget Magnasave vs a Magnet that I guess does a bunch of different stuff both are cool, how is that then a justifier of the higher price.
BTW, none of this is meant to be a slam on R&M, which from what I have seen looks like a great game and I look forward to playing it someday, just pointing out that double standard and fluid facts whysnow likes to use to support his ridiculous statements.
Rules are better? Based on what, based on watching part of a couple of streams? Whysnow, please share with us your pearls of wisdom on what aspect of the rules are better on R&M vs HW vs TMNT, please tell us in what aspect of each of the rules are good for playing at home, on location and in tournaments, and where do they fall short? What are the scoring exploits that are of concern? What is confusing to the novice player? What makes R&M rules better than HW?
Oh, I forgot, R&M also has a better shot layout, so tell also tells us about the shots on the two games, which shorts were hard, easy, felt good, oh wait, you have not played Hot Wheels. And that is the point, and one I fear Whysnow will never ever get, no one of substance is going to respect someone who climbs up on highest soap box, and with their loudest voice, praises or criticizes a game, they HAVE NOT EVEN PLAYED!
I have no clue which game is better or the best value, HW, TMNT or R&M, since I have not played any of them, yet, but certainly looking forward to playing all three and seeing what they each have to offer. What I do know, is 90% of whyshow posts has basically no value, other than maybe him burning off a few calories from the typing.
You are wrong on so many levels.
I buy pretty much every game day 1 and will tell it just like it is. You precive bias due to your own filter.
Wake up and realize how slanted you are.
I only chimed in here after the game was pending sale. Glad you love the game.
Maybe I will pick one up after the secondary price drops to stern pro pricing as that is where it should have been priced from the start IMHO. That would have actually gotten some more out on route and possibly let to more home sales.
Until then, looking fwd to the next AP title and hoping it is worth picking up on day one. Would live to support them but they still need to earn the sale.
I was right on Houdini dropping like a rock (great theme but crap shot layout and code was meh), Oktoberfest being better (aweful theme but fun to shot and pretty blah code) and expect hot wheels will be selling at 5600 on secondary in the next year (which is better than the others due to better code with the fresh blood, better shot layout, and just missed the mark on integration v price value).
They are getting closer... just not there yet. Cheers and enjoy your games to the vehement defends.
Congrats on the sale Zach
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