it IS hate speech. i hate it.

I Would normally agree, but based on sales and Covid (no shows) the chances of most playing it are slim and none. Forced to make purchasing decisions on streams and pr materials.

Also as a guy that owns a bunch of games and plays/played almost every game made in the modern era, it is pretty clear that the extra price point of hotwheels is not justified from watching the available content and streams. It is for sure your best game to date, but the bar was set pretty low till now.

If it was 5600 shipped to my door (Sterns are actually cheaper if you shop around, but I’ll give you the benefit of typical retail), then I would be interested in possibly trying it out. At 6300 (sorry, the shaker is a joke and not an up sell for me personally) then I am not buying for home or for route. Hot wheels is simply priced too high for what it offers, compared to your direct competition, and based on likely resale drop.

Honestly hope the best for you guys, but AP seems to continually screw up yet be so close to making something happen.

Personally, I hope you guys have a good theme coming for your next title and choose to either put more in to justify the price point, are smart enough to make a limited run to help hold a resale value, or lower the price to actually compete. You currently are missing the mark by just a little in all areas and the combination is a failure in my opinion. I know you will take this wrong, but I would not even share the feedback if I did not see the potential.

what extra stuff does Rick and Morty offer for the $7000 base model price point? It's not exactly jam-packed with toys or extras. don't get me wrong, i love the game and think it's super fun. But based on your argument about 'price' Vs. 'Toys, bells and whistles', seems like you've got a double standard.

Overall
WAY better theme, better integration all around, better ruleset, and a limited product which made it way easier to take the plunge.

For specifics of just game stuff. Much better shot layout, art, lighting, music, real backglass. 3 flippers, magnasave, and a whole second trough for staged balls plus the toy actually feels like it interacts (perfect example of how a spinning car can feel so stupid, but a bouncing ship can feel integrated and interactive)

The silly part of this comparison is that hotwheels is much further away from Rick and Morty and much closer to a Stern Pro.

AP somehow found the perfectly crappy middle point between Stern pro and spooky price but is unable to actually provide as much as Rick and Morty and be able to claim they are a deal, or justify being more that a Stern pro and having a value to justify the extra cost.

Sad/funny is that they will likely never sell even 500 of these, but if they had announced from the start that they would do a limited run of 500-750, then they would have been fine and likely sold them out quickly.

is there anything you won't say before admitting you're wrong? i'm questioning whether you've even played it. cuz there is basically no functional difference between the spinning car and the bouncing ship, so let's just do away with that silly debate point. that said, they're both universally loved themes, and lots of fun. both have slightly unique features, that collectively probably add up to ABOUT the same BOM. they're at least not drastically different enough in "stuff they have" to criticize one by comparing it to the other. and frankly, after all is said and done with add ons and shipping etc. the RaM comes closer to $10k delivered vs. $6400 for Hot Wheels, so to compare them price-wise is also incredibly off. if you just don't like it, fine, that's your opinion. but to bust out all these feature differences, and world-wide hate for the theme as your reasoning for it being unsellable, well that's just you being you.

Need a shot that disappears through the back panel. Then a kicker fires the ball or car in a loop in the backbox (think Banzai Run ). Kicker strength is software variable so sometimes it doesn’t make the loop, falls into a ‘failed loop’ exit. Could even use a Hot Wheels car up there but the recovery mech might be cost prohibitive.

Sadly, that is true for all manufacturers right now. Not just Hot Wheels. Which really looks like a great game and a lot of fun.

Getting more pins on the street is a must. Once people can get their hands on it and play it. Gives them more reason to buy.

LTG : )

One manufacturer that might have an edge here is if Chicago Gaming were to release the next remake before shows start up again.

A remake would be a known pin that many have played or have access too, though not all dolled up with big display, RGB lighting, topper, etc.

LTG : )

Not sure WTH you are paying 10k for Rick and Morty?!?!?!?

Talkin about whirly dirly BS.
Price is 7k. 7600 for the blood sucker edition.

If your point is that it already sells for over 10k, then I don’t think it is helping your argument.

I am 100% right and the secondary market already shows it.
Brand new hot wheels from dealers are already slipping and there are less than 100 games out there.

Hotwheels is an out dated theme that was not executed well (game lacks a single jump ramp or loop; I mean come on...). This is really not even up for debate. The biggest thing people mention about this game is the stupid spinning car.

have you played it?

my bad, $8848.47 without the butter cab. i was wrong.

IMG_0633 (resized).JPG

Exactly -

Betting the Next owner will enjoy it ! Congratulations to the Buyer.

I should point out that i'm by no means saying that RaM is overpriced. The game kicks ass and is definitely a keeper for me. Spooky definitely has my support going forward. but you just can't compare the two, either price or feature-wise.

Loosk like 8088.00 with out all the crap heaped on.

This is typical of a thread where whysnow pipes in one some ridiculous statements based on his preconception of things: spooky is great, no matter what, AP is always terrible and he needs to tell everyone (why else would he be in this thread), "but I'm rooting for them" -- a feeble attempt to try to hide his obvious bias, and with Stern, he will hate a game, rip on it, and then later buy it, with some lame justification for why it suddenly makes sense to buy it.

He thens continues to post non stop to try to support his statements when it is clear it is based on his pre-conceptions of things, not facts or real world experience. 'Real backglass', which unless something has changed, has always been standard on AP games. As pointed out above the 'spinning car' (yeah, not a great toy, but we have certainly seen a lot worse), not that different than a 'bouncing ship'. Lighting, seriously?, from what I have seen pretty kick ass, even if you want to argue R&M is better, it is certainly not some great differentiator and justifier of the higher cost, oh, but wait, I forgot, it has a third flipper, well that is worth $700 more, oh, a the 'ball trough to stage balls' which I believe Houdini had. Suspect if you lined up the mechanical features, betting they would be pretty similar. Oh, and lets not forget Magnasave vs a Magnet that I guess does a bunch of different stuff both are cool, how is that then a justifier of the higher price.

BTW, none of this is meant to be a slam on R&M, which from what I have seen looks like a great game and I look forward to playing it someday, just pointing out that double standard and fluid facts whysnow likes to use to support his ridiculous statements.

Rules are better? Based on what, based on watching part of a couple of streams? Whysnow, please share with us your pearls of wisdom on what aspect of the rules are better on R&M vs HW vs TMNT, please tell us in what aspect of each of the rules are good for playing at home, on location and in tournaments, and where do they fall short? What are the scoring exploits that are of concern? What is confusing to the novice player? What makes R&M rules better than HW?

Oh, I forgot, R&M also has a better shot layout, so tell also tells us about the shots on the two games, which shorts were hard, easy, felt good, oh wait, you have not played Hot Wheels. And that is the point, and one I fear Whysnow will never ever get, no one of substance is going to respect someone who climbs up on highest soap box, and with their loudest voice, praises or criticizes a game, they HAVE NOT EVEN PLAYED!

I have no clue which game is better or the best value, HW, TMNT or R&M, since I have not played any of them, yet, but certainly looking forward to playing all three and seeing what they each have to offer. What I do know, is 90% of whyshow posts has basically no value, other than maybe him burning off a few calories from the typing.

$3 is about all it takes!

Why do people come into for sale ads just to tell others how much they hate a game? Why bring arguments and drama into a sales ad?

So three games, huh? I can think of a lot of great games I would not have enjoyed over the years if I gave up on them after playing just three games, let's see TZ, TSPP, EBD, FH, Congo, Tron, TWD, DP, DI . . .

That is what trolls do. If you ever want to explain to someone what a troll is or why people hate them so much, a good place to start would be to have them read this thread.

The answer should just be a new verb: They love Whysnowing!

You are wrong on so many levels.

I buy pretty much every game day 1 and will tell it just like it is. You precive bias due to your own filter.

Wake up and realize how slanted you are.

I only chimed in here after the game was pending sale. Glad you love the game.

Maybe I will pick one up after the secondary price drops to stern pro pricing as that is where it should have been priced from the start IMHO. That would have actually gotten some more out on route and possibly let to more home sales.

Until then, looking fwd to the next AP title and hoping it is worth picking up on day one. Would live to support them but they still need to earn the sale.

I was right on Houdini dropping like a rock (great theme but crap shot layout and code was meh), Oktoberfest being better (aweful theme but fun to shot and pretty blah code) and expect hot wheels will be selling at 5600 on secondary in the next year (which is better than the others due to better code with the fresh blood, better shot layout, and just missed the mark on integration v price value).

They are getting closer... just not there yet. Cheers and enjoy your games to the vehement defends.

Congrats on the sale Zach

Just chillax weak sauce. I’m amazeballs at your argument. Pfffft. Whatevs.

have you played it?

Well said !

We squeeze a ton of fun out of the single magnet in Hot Wheels. It can...

- Divert the ball from the orbit/ramp shot into the pops.
- Accelerate the ball up the blue ramp.
- Hold the ball to let you CRASH another ball into it for the intro and Super Jackpot of Loop CRASH Multiball.

Definitely a reminder that games aren't about BOM checklists, they're all about FUN FUN FUN.

Such insightful and fact based on comments that you provided to support that statement. And you did not respond to a single question I raised in asking you to support the statements you made, which just goes to prove my point, so thank you.

You came into a FS thread, where you clearly had no interest in buying, for no other reason than to make negative comments about the game, whether the game had sold or not does not matter. I get that you think all of us on pinside would be clueless without your "insights", on games you have never played, but it is pretty clear what your intent was. I came to the thread to see what was so 'hot' about a FS thread, and guess I should not be surprised as to what I found.

Never said I loved the game, said I never played it and have no opinion of it, since I have not played it, something you clearly don't get. And again shows you did not really read what I wrote, par for the course.

Anyone who has read the thread has seen your posts for what they are, have seen you unable to respond to those challenging your statements with any facts or substance. You can continue to attempt to defend what you wrote with even more nonsensical posts, which at this point will only make you look silly and desperate or you can move on and become an annoyance in another thread. Given your track record, betting it will be both.

You gotta give WhysNow credit: he will say the craziest shit and not worry about the slightest repercussions.

yeah, but all of that crap comes standard on Hot Wheels. *except for the plastic protectors. so if we're comparing them by price, that's the price.

I’ve talked to a few people who have gotten the chance to play hot wheels and they thought it was a fun game . I am looking forward to playing one .

Lol. Wake up and look in the mirror Hilton!

Oh really? My fault I didn't know.
They really add on all that stuff and then list out the prices? That's awful

x

Seriously now, licensing pinball themes is more often than not an exercise in appealing to childhood nostalgia. So I go back to when I was eight years old. Hot Wheels and TMNT were probably my big two obsessions of the day. Flash forward to 2020 and there are new pinballs(!) based on both properties in production at the same time a few miles apart.

Combined with the uninspired layout and price point for how stripped down it is

It's the perfect game for API to have put out when it did. Being lower in price means that more people now spending more time at home than they'd want to might think about buying a pinball, maybe for the first time.

Most importantly, it has a quality feel. I play API's games on location alongside WMS/Bally classics and, if I was deaf/dumb/blind Tommy in there, I wouldn't be sure who made what.

i'll take Hilton's silence as a defiant "No"!

Very true....he loves to bag on games, and their pricing structure...

Ok moderators and Robin, y'all need to way increase the number of thumb-downs you can use on any thread Hilton is involved in. When he goes on a bender like this, the half-dozen or so we get aren't nearly enough... I ran out halfway down this page. Not thumb abuse to call out BS and he posts very frequently..

Is it really worth all the energy and time to try and discredit AP? AP was hardly taken seriously in the beginning and here they are on their 3rd game with little drama. Looking at the other competition, that's a pretty good accomplishment. Most struggled to just get one out the door. JJP still only has 5 games under their belt and Pirates had a short production. I have not played HW but it looks to be their best game yet. If they can weather the current storm and keep improving, they make actually give Stern some real competition. We should all be for that.

It is amazing how much effort can be put into boosting companies that ended up failing (and taking customer money with it), and then to spend the same amount of effort trying to tear down a company that is actually producing and shipping games without ripping people off is baffling.

Not only that but you have AP members active on pinside providing game details, answering questions, and helping owners with issues. They don't do teaser videos that mean absolutely nothing, create meaningless deadlines, strip out features, or take preorders for games you will not get for several years.

They sound awful ! Why would anyone pay for that ?

And the first thing they did was make one of the unicorns JPop promised a reality, and made a better game out of the finished Houdini in the process.

To me, it's the fact that they had me come up to their new headquarters in Palatine, and I told 'em up front I'm a broke-ass who's probably two stimulus checks away from buying any NIB pinball, even one selling for less than 25-year-old used "'A' title" from the WMS era. I'm just a guy who's played and enjoyed both Houdini and Oktoberfest at locations in my neighborhood. I didn't get anything for what I've had to say about Hot Wheels. I ordered my own pizza to eat while I was there. I was provided water and pinball, and in return they didn't install a bill acceptor on the game.

I'll say this, Hot Wheels is far and away the most location-friendly game the company has made. It's a game that anyone can walk up to, without reading the rules, make some shots and make things happen. When you look at the games on the top 50 of the Pinside rankings, they're more often than not the games like that. That's why Medieval Madness works. That's why Monster Bash works. That's why Scared Stiff works. And, in the same way, that's why Hot Wheels works.

It's no revolutionary layout, sure, just a fast and flowy one fitting the Hot Wheels theme.

That is what I hope to do some day. I saw their old place. Love to see the new place.

Glad you got to go and had fun !

LTG : )

Came to see a for sale add, all I found was a bunch of teenagers bickering back and forth.

HW looks like a fun game....congrats on the sale

It is fantastic; you are going to love it.

I don't really get into people's opinions on what they think is good or bad etc, I can bring a route perspective to this and some actual stats about the game. Obviously for covid reasons our numbers are a bit skewed but currently hot wheels is second to earnings since release. Kids seem to really gravitate to it and many casuals have asked what the price is because their kids love it. I don't really bash manufacturers or industry decisions. I do know that this game is making the hobby younger, which in my business is a welcome sight! Also want to factor in that Hot Wheels is sitting in a line up amongst some great games, MM Royale, TBL, TMNT LE and Pro, JJPOTC, Wonka, Fathom, Centaur, AFM etc. It is new and that sometimes is also part of this but I hope the game finds its niche customer and remains a top earner. Either way I personally enjoy the game enough to play again. Hopefully some things will change and people can start to come out and make their assessments of the game. I am guilty of not worrying about things like BOM and resale value on pins. I just get them all and judge them from there based on earnings. I want to give a chance for everyone to try out the next new thing because I know it would be hard to purchase all of them for a personal collection. GLWS!

Good to know, thanks for posting. What game is still beating it?

It's a real shame that Pinside provides a platform for people like this to smear and mislead with statements that casuals and collectors scanning threads will see and possibly adopt as fact and/or opinion. It's erroneous statements like these (and the anti-American Pinball sentiments that Chris Kooluris regurgitated on his show with no actual experience or hands-on knowledge) that mislead and misguide folks making buying decisions. Very unfortunate for a company like American, because it makes their efforts to be recognized and taken seriously all the more difficult. And unfortunate to buyers that use the internet to make sight unseen decisions to purchase. I guess the saving grace in this thread is that anyone that's spent time on Pinside likely knows the history and the credibility of the kind of people posting crap like this (and, if you don't, take some time to educate yourself).

For those of you that haven't had hands-on time with an AP game, you're missing out. Build quality is insane for a modern game. I have two AP games in my collection and the attention to detail and quality of materials is top-shelf across the board... right down to details like powder-coated service rails. Take Houdini: The real backglass and its integration with the LCD screen is the best we've seen yet, not to mention that backglass/art/lighting makes for total eye candy. The game is loaded and the code is super fun. Menu systems are fantastic. Art is great.. cab decals are robust... you get powder-coated service rails for crying out loud. The playfield is extremely well lit... GI and Insert lighting is dazzling. What an incredible game. If you're looking for the steal of the century, pick one up.

Don't pay attention to the chronic "look at me" OCD pinside posers – not to mention shills of past fraudulent pinball ventures and manufacturers – that claim to know all things pinball. Make the effort to go experience things yourself, make your own decisions, and ignore the noise.

I agree 100%!

I have owned many of the big titles from all of the manufacturers and American Pinball (of which I currently own 2) have a build quality that has to be seen to be believed!

As I said previously, AP do not cut corners when it comes to quality machines.

I only have room for 4 pins and 2 of those are American Pinball. That speaks for itself.

Roger