Not me!

And you do realize that would be worth 2+ of your LOTR?

Of course. I got 15k set aside for magic girl. Might as well

That's probably Joe's HEP IJ. He's shared some photos with me, it's amazing. I just bought his HEP AFM and couldn't be happier.

My addiction began with a HEP MB I acquired several months ago (from teekee, another great guy), now I'm trying to find a MM. I couldn't understand what the fuss was about until I actually had the opportunity to see/play one. For me, it changed my entire pin collection strategy. I simply can't overstate how stunning and dialed in these machines are.

It was sold to a dude in SoCal. (not me)

Make an offer "from $13,500"? That's the low watermark? Really?

Hehe, it's at a good home now. Even if it's available, not sure the current owner (not me) wants to deal with Kaneda knowing his past dealing history.

Oh please. I pay top dollar and upfront for everything. Are you really going to imply I ripped Colton off for Fix it Felix still? $6,500 in cash. He's happy.

Stop.

I love you! $5 for you. PM me.

My guess is you'll PayPal me $2.50 now and convince me later that getting $2.50 was a great deal and I'll never see the other $2.50. No thank you.

Lol...that made me laugh. Love you too man. I pay in full.

ssbump

Elvira looks.gif

It's still cheap and worth every penny in my opinion. I've been sweating blood and tears on a restoration of my own, and the combined amount of money and hours spent is a multiple of this. To achieve a nice but lesser result, and a lower resale value as well.
I never cease to be amazed by HEP restorations.

I certainly don't understand it. I am certain that I understand one thing though... there is a sucker born every minute.

If you had $22,000 invested in this Scared Stiff, would you be asking a $22,500 minimum?

I was just referring to Chris' post on the restoration cost. If I were to commission a HEP restoration and resell it later on, I would expect to take a moderate hit - not to mention the two-way shipping. On the other hand, for this kind of money, I'd rather take my business with HEP and have the pleasure to work directly with him.

A "HEP" game is an interesting thing to me. I simply do not buy into the "better than new" philosophy. As a collector (of anything for that matter) the closest in condition to the original manufacturer's product the better. Thus, there is no condition better than the way the game came from the manufacturer. To me, an HUO all original game is worth more than a HEP restore. Now, I realize some older BW games are nearly impossible to find in mint, all original condition, but they should still be valued higher than a restore IMO.

Sooo ... what would the value of an HUO, all original, and close to mint Scared Stiff be worth?

Collectibility is different than quality. So while an all original HUO pin might be worth more *to you* it doesn't mean that a HEP isn't "better than new" in terms of overall quality (and reliability for that matter).

There is no condition more *original* than the way the game came from the manufacturer. However, they can certainly be put together better. Pinball manufacturers work quickly to ship product and keep the line rolling, and they make mistakes. Just look at the MM remakes and their misplaced slingshot mechs. It is unlikely that a game would ever ship off the line with every single mechanism assembled and adjusted perfectly.

Minor adjustments are one thing. That's silly to stretch my point that far. My point was simply there is no substitution for all original parts in mint condition. HEP may very well do things or add modern technology that make a game more reliable (I've never heard HEP ever actually make this claim?) but that would never increase the value of a game above an all original, mint example of a game. Again, just my opinion.

I understand this too. Personally, I'd be willing to pay more for the HEP because I personally feel it is better than new, the glasslike clear coat being the single most important part. The other angle is the near complete absence of such HUO machines. If money is no object, you can't find a mint specimen and you really want one, HEP is the way to go at a fair price considering the craftsmanship and the end result. In the end, the value is what someone's willing to pay, and the market has become a lot more liquid and transparent in the past few years which should be good for almost everyone.

Interestingly though, I was just looking at "sfbay.craigslist.org link I think that this is a pretty fair price. Probably around the same for an equivalent SS.

Note... Still working on getting the CL link right - if anyone is interested.

I'm happy to know my own HUO SS is probably worth a lot more than I thought.

I would take a HEP restored and cc'd flawless playfield, with not bumps of edges of the inserts over an original. That right there, if you had side by side, would be the easy tie breaker for me.

A nicely clear coated pf is one thing that can be added to an original. Don't need HEP for that. I've debated stripping my own to have it clear coated by Kruzman. But beyond that, as beautiful as a HEP restore is, I just don't see the value being SO much over an original mint game (in this case, 5 or 6k?). To each his own, however. Maybe I just haven't realized how high the prices on SS have been getting?

I can tell you that a NIB SS sold for quite a bit more than the asking price of this HEP SS.

Any cc'd PF, from the guys that do it right, would be better than an original. There is just no arguing that. If I came upon a NIB wpc for example of fav game, the temptation to send it to a pro would be hard to ignore.

It wouldnt be an original HUO SS then would it???

I mean that was your point originally wasnt it? That you would rather have an original HUO SS over a Restored?

Yes, I would rather have an original over a restore. ADDING clear coat to an original in no way takes away or replaces original parts of the game. It's still very much all original. It only protects them further (like adding Cliffy's IMO). In a restoration, frequently many things are replaced with updated parts (reproduced decals or plastics, pf repros, new cabinets, different generic parts, etc. etc.). Thus, I prefer a 100% original game as close to original condition. But that's just me and my own opinion.

I don't see how one can argue some mods aren't totally superior to factory stuff. Look at the arcade in Tron...I've not seen one person say they prefer the stock arcade that lights up to say "Tron" over the improved arcade that plays the Tron attract video game attract mode...

I certainly wouldn't make an argument like that. Some mods really are better or cooler looking. However, I do like to collect the game parts as the game was originally intended so I would most definitely still want the original toy/part kept with the game.

The only point I was making (which is just an opinion) is that I put higher value on original games in mint condition than I do in restores because I don't like the idea of all the reproduced parts that essentially are just forgeries to a certain extent. Same thing with most collectibles out there including cars.

It's this simple: Pins direct from the factory are a product. They're put together quickly, and shipped with flaws. (Spray paint overspray on the interior of the cabinet is a perfect example of this.)

HEP pins (and some other guys' restorations) are simply a work of art and could be put in a museum as an example of what a perfect pinball machine looks like.

So yeah...they're better than new.

Dude,
Save yourself a headache. I think they've already drunk the koolaid.

Meh....there will probably be a remake

I am the only one that prefers the standard Tron arcade. That stems from me preferring stock vs upgrades/mods. If there is an upgrade that fixes a flaw to the stock design, I'll accept that as stock. A great example is the Transformers LE update to Megatron.

Just my 2 cents.

Fair enough. That is what I deserve for speaking in absolutes actually (there are so few absolutes in any hobby, mod preferences certainly would not be one).

Aesthetically, I can agree. In terms of play & functionality, restorations almost always require a shakeout period. Pro restorers typically don't spend a tremendous amount of time playing the pin for fear of dimpling the PF or breaking a plastic. In addition, it's time and time is money. Several of the restorations I've owned required weeks of fixing/tweaking. When I was a newcomer to restorations, I was horrified that I could spend so much $$ and still have to open the hood and fix shit. As I gained more experience, I realized it's just part of the journey. On the positive side, all the restorers I've had the pleasure of working with were very responsive to helping address issues (sometimes standing behind the product years later

Have you seen the two side-by-side? The stock arcade is a piece of jpop by comparison.

Oh man, I gotta say, I love that reference. Haha! That is a way better noun than Choggard was a verb.

What's funny, I swore off buying NIB, figuring that I'd just wait for the secondary market prices. Today, I bought a KISS LE. My reasoning, is because I want a stock machine. Just seems like on the secondary market, this just isn't the case.

But what makes this hobby great, is that we can all toy with our machines to make them perfect to our individual tastes.

Yes I have. I won't say the stock one is better, because it is clearly not. I'm just the type that prefers stock over mods, even when mods are clearly superior (as in this case).

I'm sure I'm the minority of 1 on this board...but hey, isn't that why pinside needs me? Lol

It's seems many on here really don't understand what a "HEP" restoration consists of. Chris will do what the owner requests, be that a total restoration to exacting original conditions, or modded to the max. Chris insists all restorations done, meet his extremely high "HEP" standards, but the machine is done to the owners individual desires. This results in quite a variation in cost, as pricing is directly related to the labor and materials involved in each individual machine. It may be 6k to do one TZ, while its 12k to do another, because of the owners demands for plating, mods, or other improvements and the condition of the donor machine. Every machine is an individual project, other than his standards for quality that he will not compromise, each is done to the desires of the owner and the cost and value reflects it. There is no question, any machine receiving this level of restoration plays "better than new" as it comes properly tuned and adjusted, as opposed to any NIB machine.
If you haven't owned one or had the opportunity to play one extensively, it's hard to really appreciate the difference, but anyone who believes a HMO or NIB machine is in the same class as one of his restorations, is plain ignorant of the facts.
It may not be worth the investment to many, but to question the quality of the machine and its play is beyond reason.

This ^.

Now back to the sale!

make it 1 of 2. I like the updated Tron Arcade but for the cost I'd much prefer the stock one. If I ever get a Tron... My desired Tron would be a stock one that I could just add LED's to the GI and inserts and add the Eli Kit. That would be all.

$10.59. BUT, you can come over and play it *anytime you want*.

(Seriously, I'm not much of an Elvira fan.. so I'm out. But GLWS!)

Did anyone here question the quality of his restorations? No. That's great that they "play better" than NIB because the game tweaks have been done for you but that does not address the issue of games being "all original" or not. Does he use reproduced plastics? Reproduced ramps? Reproduction playfields? etc. etc. etc. All I stated was that I put a higher value on all original games still in mint condition over a HEP label. As you noted yourself, what went into any one restoration can be all over the map. You seem to put a higher value simply on how a game plays. That's fine.

Maybe you missed this part.

Apologies to the op, didn't mean to derail your thread. GLWS on a beautiful example. If only I had the room for another...