(Topic ID: 121123)

For sale: FS: 6264 NVRAMs No Batteries needed! FM1608


By barakandl

4 years ago



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  • 30 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

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Price

$ 8


for sale

FS: 6264 NVRAMs No Batteries needed! FM1608

Added: March 12th, 2015 Re-listed: 1 time Ended: December 3rd, 2015

Item description

Hi Everyone

I managed to get my hands on some rare, obsolete FM1608 DIP 28 NVRAMs! These are in a 28 pin through hole package that is drop in compatible as 6264 RAMs in most situations. These will work in Data East System 2, Data East System 3, Stern Whitestar, Sega, Williams System 11B / System 11C and Williams WPC pinball machines that use a 6264 ram and will require no batteries to hold settings and high scores. WPC games and system 11 games are typically hard soldered to the board, so a DIP28 wide socket would need to be installed. The real time clock in games that use them will only run while the machine is turned on. ie midnight madness, circuis voltair join the circus date time, etc.

Every single RAM is being tested in a stand alone ram tester and then verified to retain memory between power cycles in a WPC89 MPU. These are used pulls with date codes varying from 2004 to 2011. Some may have minor scuff mark on the top, but all pins are clean and straight. These are 100% genuine. They all have the original factory imprint, no remarks.

1-9 $12 each
10-24 $11 each
25-49 $10 each
50-99 $9 each
100+ $8 each.

Shipping cost.
1-9 $3
10-24 $4
25-99 $5
100+ $6

I also have FM16W08 on SOIC to DIP converter boards. Tested good.

$15 Each



RAMs will ship in antistatic tubes then wrapped in static shield or antistatic foam and placed in a static shielded bag at my discretion. Only taking PayPal and only shipping inside the USA.

Thanks!
Andrew


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Item location

Columbus, OH, US


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#2 4 years ago

These are no "W" chips - only as a short hint.

-2
#3 4 years ago

Yes, the "W" is very important since the "no W" version will have compatibility issues in pinball boards.

FM16W08 is not FM1608.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#4 4 years ago

I take it pinball MPUs need the wide voltage version?

#5 4 years ago

*** i made a typo *** FM1608 Revision 3.0 or greater is the part number. The new marketplace setup does not let me edit the topic title. I requested it to be done.

These are FM1608 DIP 28 with an operating voltage of 4.5v to 5.5v which is standard in a pinball machine. The FM16W08 is 2.7v to 5.5v. The data sheet of the various 6264 RAMs i pulled out of my games have the same operating voltage, 4.5v to 5.5v, same as the FM1608. I have tested these in Sega, Data East, Stern whitestar, Williams WPC89 MPUs with no problems. I do not believe these will work in Gottlieb System 3.

The 1n5817 diode used in these circuits has a very low forward voltage drop. If the voltage drop across a 1n5817 was a problem, it would likely show up in a normal 6264 RAM. In every board i have checked, the Vcc pin has been safely within operating voltage. If it was a problem, which i don't think it will be, the diode could be jumpered out because we are no longer using batteries.

In testing i can not make the ram get to an undervoltage level before the CPU/sound/display boards start to reboot.

#6 4 years ago

I used these a lot when they first came out and never had a problem. If someone DID have a problem, the solution would be to bypass the blocking diode.

#7 4 years ago

I have not tested this yet, but the FM1608 will work in Williams System 11B and System 11C. There is four extra pins to fit the DIP28 package on Sys 11B&C. You would remove the 24 pin 6116 ram. Install a 28 pin socket. Remove jumper W5. Install Jumper W6. Disconnect batteries(derp).

My dad has a Big Guns with a 11B MPU. I will get over there soon and do a real life test.

Andrew

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from Lindsey:

I used these a lot when they first came out and never had a problem. If someone DID have a problem, the solution would be to bypass the blocking diode.

Same here....we used these a lot without any problems before they became hard to obtain and (too) expensive a few years ago. The only time I had problems was with a bad quality batch from China, 50% didn't make the tests with my Eprom programmer. After that I started experimenting with Simtek devices.

Marco

#9 4 years ago

.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Same here....we used these a lot without any problems before they became hard to obtain and (too) expensive a few years ago. The only time I had problems was with a bad quality batch from China, 50% didn't make the tests with my Eprom programmer. After that I started experimenting with Simtek devices.
Marco

A competitor is going around and telling people my RAMs are incompatible which is false. He is protecting his product which i can understand. The W designates it works in 3.3v circuits as well as 5v. Our pinball machines use 5v so FM1608 works perfectly.

Money back guaranteed my RAMs are good and work fine.

Andrew

#11 4 years ago

Why no love for Europe?

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

A competitor is going around and telling people my RAMs are incompatible which is false. He is protecting his product which i can understand. The W designates it works in 3.3v circuits as well as 5v. Our pinball machines use 5v so FM1608 works perfectly.
Money back guaranteed my RAMs are good and work fine.
Andrew

FM1608 is proven to work just fine and like I said, if there WERE a problem, the solution would be to simply bypass the blocking diode.

I used these for probably two years before the FM16W08 came out and had no problems. I used them in adapters for 5101, 6116, and as a sub for 6264 and gave a bunch away to people at shows (I think Tim Arnold and Clay have them for sure) and sold a bunch to people. No complaints.

It was a nice way to start out making NVRAM adapters actually because the DIP parts were easy to work with. Then I switched to using FM1608 in SOIC in my adapters (again, before FM16W08 came out) because they discontinued the DIP parts. There are probably ~100 machines out there in the world with FM1608 in them in the form of these adapters. Then ultimately I switched to FM16W08 because of the wider voltage range assuming that one day there would probably come a situation where it was warranted. Then they started only making the W part, and the rest is history.

I still have ~200 FM1608. I wouldn't hesitate to use them to replace any RAM in pinball because I've already been doing it for years with no problems.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I have not tested this yet, but the FM1608 will work in Williams System 11B and System 11C. There is four extra pins to fit the DIP28 package on Sys 11B&C. You would remove the 24 pin 6116 ram. Install a 28 pin socket. Remove jumper W5. Install Jumper W6. Disconnect batteries(derp).
My dad has a Big Guns with a 11B MPU. I will get over there soon and do a real life test.
Andrew

Definitely do the test, but I can confirm that this will work. This is exactly how I test my adapters (6116 and 6264).

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

A competitor is going around and telling people my RAMs are incompatible which is false. He is protecting his product which i can understand. .... Andrew

@Andrew:
It was not me!!!!
In post #2 I only wanted to give the hint, that it is not the "W" chip. My only intention was, to protect you from problems - not the people come and say, " ... you offered the "better" W chip, but we got "only" the FM1608 ..."
Of course, the FM1608 will do his work as Lindsay desccribed. Only problems might come in WPC-machines, when the +5VDC-section is low and you already have the well known reset problem.
That has - of course - nothing to do with the FM1608, but with the weak +5VDC-section.

I wish you much sucess in selling them.

- Ingo

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

@Andrew:
It was not me!!!!
In post #2 I only wanted to give the hint, that it is not the "W" chip. My only intention was, to protect you from problems - not the people come and say, " ... you offered the "better" W chip, but we got "only" the FM1608 ..."
Of course, the FM1608 will do his work as Lindsay desccribed. Only problems might come in WPC-machines, when the +5VDC-section is low and you already have the well known reset problem.
That has - of course - nothing to do with the FM1608, but with the weak +5VDC-section.
I wish you much sucess in selling them.
- Ingo

Hi Ingo,

No worries, I wasn't referencing you. I appreciate you pointing out my mistake. All the new surface mount versions i received are FMW1608 and that is how i mixed up the numbers. I am saving the FM16W08 SOIC surface mount ICs for a low cost 5101 adapter.

I will be at the Ohio Pinball show on Saturday the 21st during the afternoon. I am bringing 20 free samples for the first 20 people that can find me. 1 per person.

Andrew

-3
#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Yes, the "W" is very important since the "no W" version will have compatibility issues in pinball boards.
FM16W08 is not FM1608.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Quit spewing your bull**POO**. You're just trying to compensate for the fact that you sell the same god**DARNED** thing for three times the price. Your comments aren't grounded in reality, and your libelous bull**POO** isn't wanted here.

1 week later
-1
#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Yes, the "W" is very important since the "no W" version will have compatibility issues in pinball boards.
FM16W08 is not FM1608.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Let's talk about how you lied about the chips Barakandl is selling.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/installing-barakandls-nvram-battery-eliminator-vids-review

#18 4 years ago

Really dude? I have no idea what your deal is with me, but grow up.

Ignorance of an issue doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist, or the person informing someone of the issue is a liar.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Really dude? I have no idea what your deal is with me, but grow up.
Ignorance of an issue doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist, or the person informing someone of the issue is a liar.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

"my issue with you" is that you appear to be lying about the usefulness of what someone else is selling, presumably to maintain your own profit margins on a similar product.

#20 4 years ago

What's the specific issue that can be caused using these? I hate to throw gas on the fire but I'm genuinely curious because I've never had any issues using these and there shouldn't really be any based on the specs for the RAM outlined in the data sheet.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Lindsey:

What's the specific issue that can be caused using these? I hate to throw gas on the fire but I'm genuinely curious because I've never had any issues using these and there shouldn't really be any based on the specs for the RAM outlined in the data sheet.

There is no issue.

If there was not enough voltage, you would simply jumper over a diode.

Easy. But I've not seen a game that has ever needed it.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

"my issue with you" is that you appear to be lying about the usefulness of what someone else is selling, presumably to maintain your own profit margins on a similar product.

Then there are no issues, since that's not what I'm doing. I simply stated that the FM1608 (non-W, wide voltage version) had issues in some pinball boards. Yes, a jumper on the board to effectively eliminate the blocking diode allows the part to work.

Ultimately getting batteries off of boards is the goal, however someone wishes to do it, of course I'd like it to be anyPin, I don't make them to just sit on the shelf. But, getting more people to get batteries off of their boards is a great thing.

I've been using the FM1608 for more than 12 years, as I've said most won't notice an issue, but the write enable voltage tolerance is such that it won't allow writing in some pinball boards without modifying the board. Easy for some, intimidating for others, not the point. The point is, simply plugging it in won't always work.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

I simply stated that the FM1608 (non-W, wide voltage version) had issues in some pinball boards

which pinball boards have you had troubles with the FM1608?

#24 4 years ago

Which boards have you seen show these problems? If it's a specific system it would be good information to share.

I took a look at the data sheets for FM1608 and FM16W08 because I was curious about the "write enable voltage". I didn't see specific conditions noted for the /WE pin, but the inputs for both chips are listed as 2V minimum as "input high voltage". The FM1608 specifies 2V. The FM16W08 specifies 0.7 × VDD so the minimum would be 1.89V, but that would be at 2.7V supply. At the voltages present in a pinball machine the minimum voltage for a high condition is actually HIGHER (4.5V x 0.7 = 3.15) for the FM16W08 according to the data sheet, but that's not necessarily the case. Either way, it's basically a wash. They're rated the same.

The obvious difference between them is min/max supply voltage. The FM1608 is advertised to operate down to 4.5V and the FM16W08 to 2.7V. Makes sense for their part to be able to work in 3.3V systems so the W part makes sense in that context. Other than that they're basically the same in terms of DC operating conditions.

Data sheets for 6116 and 6264 show basically the same operating conditions (4.5V-5.5V supply voltage, 2V minimum for high input). So in theory, any machine that has problems with FM1608 would also be vulnerable to the same problems with 6116 or 6264 (the RAM already in the machine).

I would expect to find a power supply problem in any game that has the RAM flaking out because of supply voltage. The FM16W08 may be rated down to 2.7V but most of the other chips on the MPU are rated 4.5V-5.5V (including the CPU). I've seen games happily running along below 4.5V, and maybe dropping in a different RAM would cause a problem in those cases, but the real problem is that the power supply is old and tired.

#25 4 years ago

Sorry, it's System 11 mostly, thought I posted that...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/1n5817$20ram/rec.games.pinball/8dvWeOEAk4k/J-enXaN9Vw4J

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/1n5817$20ram/rec.games.pinball/qUYaqc7m0nQ/jNirTYhfOvkJ

It's amazing to me that people that I would think would know about this issue seem to have no clue. And those that do know about it seem to want to sweep it under the rug.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#26 4 years ago

FWIW, I've experienced some issues with using DIP RAMTRON on at least one Data East game. I'm not sure what the issue was, but without the 1n5817 jumpered it would occasionally lose its settings. Could have been a weak power supply as mentioned or some fluke line voltage condition at the time. Either way, the additional voltage drop of the diode was causing issues. Jumpering the diode seemed to clear it up. Also, from what I remember an smd based RAMTRON adapter worked fine in that same machine.. at the same time I was testing the DIP part. There shouldn't have been any difference, but something was happening.

That single experience was enough for me to realize a low voltage condition *may* be an issue for some people, regardless of what's causing it to occur. Maybe someone that has the time and is more excited about nvram these days can do some testing & compare signals of the DIP part versus an adapter built with SMD parts to see if there is any difference in when the part starts misbehaving (prior to the machine itself having issues).

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Sorry, it's System 11 mostly, thought I posted that...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/1n5817$20ram/rec.games.pinball/8dvWeOEAk4k/J-enXaN9Vw4J
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/1n5817$20ram/rec.games.pinball/qUYaqc7m0nQ/jNirTYhfOvkJ
It's amazing to me that people that I would think would know about this issue seem to have no clue. And those that do know about it seem to want to sweep it under the rug.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

I built the adapters Scott is referring to in those threads. I know that there were no issues with those specific adapters because I tested them myself (in a system 11 MPU with blocking diode installed).

I'm curious if Scott posted those suggestions based on experience or simply as a matter of best practice. I remember sending him some RAMs for free years ago and a couple other boards that we were kind of working on together but I don't remember him specifically mentioning any problems. I would like to pick up on some of that stuff, actually. I wonder what he's up to these days. I do remember telling virtually everyone that I gave those original RAMs to that they should bypass the blocking diode because the voltage drop might put the RAM out of spec. When I cover my ass I like to use both hands. I would probably do the same thing if I were selling adapters with FM1608 today because a discussion like this is pretty much unavoidable otherwise with so many people jumping into the NVRAM adapter game. But like I said, I don't recall a single person reporting a problem and I never had any. I've never claimed it's not a possible issue. Just shared my personal experience without injecting bias or conjecture.

It's a weird irony that I'm kind of indirectly providing information for both sides of this argument.

I acknowledged the potential for an issue and provided a solution in my first reply. That should preclude me from team sweep-up-no-clue. As far as it being a "known issue" that I should be aware of because of a history with my adapters, I don't because it's not.

1 month later
#28 4 years ago

Would you consider shipping to Canada?

1 week later
#29 4 years ago

I swapped 2 of mine so far. Took longer to change my settings than change the chip. Only bummer is the loss of high scores.

Does anyone know what would happen if someone came along and put batteries in the machine? Would it destroy the memory chip? These were sega machines

1 week later
#30 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballlizard:

I swapped 2 of mine so far. Took longer to change my settings than change the chip. Only bummer is the loss of high scores.
Does anyone know what would happen if someone came along and put batteries in the machine? Would it destroy the memory chip? These were sega machines

The NVRAM would be fine if you left the batteries on. During normal operation that pin is getting +5v, so the battery is not going damage the IC.

One idea is to write down all the high scores and score them back in with glass off.

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