Yes! Yes! Finish him! 
(Topic ID: 238751)
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Fire!
Williams, 1987
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Lakeville, MN
Quoted from gordonshumway:Wow, I see where this is going. That's really helpful. I've had offers much higher that "half" and turned them down. Sold the last Fire! for 3 and it wasn't near this nice.
As far as the lighting goes, my palette isn't quite that sophisticated. Must be 40+ years in the cockpit of high end jets that has made me color blind.
Thanks however for your comments...
I wanna fly fighters or high end jets instead of just talking to them. GLWS, it looks like it's in great shape! Don't listen to DB.
Quoted from gordonshumway:If you want a new Gulfstream 650 and your budget can only afford a used 1970 Learjet 20, buyers need not apply.
What?
Quoted from gordonshumway:You'd NEVER understand.
Pretty sure that was a jet reference....on a pinball forum.
Quoted from gordonshumway:but I'm not interested in giving it away
Quoted from gordonshumway:I paid 2600 for this one
Herein lies the problem. It's a nice Fire, but you overpaid and are trying to convince yourself that $2.5K-$3K is fair market value. It's not. Let's consult the site you're on right now as a base reference...
Fire Stats (resized).png
Now, do I believe some of the Pinside price values are lower than current market conditions? Yes. Yes I do. But that doesn't mean that good examples are suddenly worth double the above range, especially ones that need new ramps and plastics. Even if it were a 10/10 documented low play HUO, you'd probably be mid $2K to a collector (which is a narrow scope of buyers, and they probably want Champagne Ed. anyways)... but to your original post:
Quoted from gordonshumway:Used Williams Fire! I'd rate the condition 6-7/10.
This isn't ebay where one can expect strangers to bite on ridiculous prices. This is a enthusiasts' website basically comprised entirely of people who know what stuff is worth and call spades spades. Fire w/ broken plastics, busted ramps, and defended by someone who claims to have only owned 2 pins, and not much other experience in the hobby is wealth of red flags... even if the rest appears solid.
There's also the fact that none of your photos show the Fire wheel on, and only a few of the building windows on the PF under the wheel are lit. People will also assume that this game is unshopped. For the price, this game should mention that is has been professionally gone through and probably have had the ramps replaced, perhaps rubbers upgraded, along with proof that all lights are on and the wheel works. Previous owners swapping LED's alone doesn't add $500-$1K in value.
Quoted from gordonshumway:It's a 32 year old-soon to be antique.
Sales pitches also don't work on this site. Most of the pinball machines in existence are older than Fire. Doesn't make them more valuable as a result.
Quoted from Yoko2una:Herein lies the problem. It's a nice Fire, but you overpaid and are trying to convince yourself that $2.5K-$3K is fair market value. It's not. Let's consult the site you're on right now as a base reference...
[quoted image]
Now, do I believe some of the Pinside price values are lower than current market conditions? Yes. Yes I do. But that doesn't mean that good examples are suddenly worth double the above range, especially ones that need new ramps and plastics. Even if it were a 10/10 documented low play HUO, you'd probably be mid $2K to a collector (which is a narrow scope of buyers, and they probably want Champagne Ed. anyways)... but to your original post:This isn't ebay where one can expect strangers to bite on ridiculous prices. This is a enthusiasts' website basically comprised entirely of people who know what stuff is worth and call spades spades. Fire w/ broken plastics, busted ramps, and defended by someone who claims to have only owned 2 pins, and not much other experience in the hobby is wealth of red flags... even if the rest appears solid.
There's also the fact that none of your photos show the Fire wheel on, and only a few of the building windows on the PF under the wheel are lit. People will also assume that this game is unshopped. For the price, this game should mention that is has been professionally gone through and probably have had the ramps replaced, perhaps rubbers upgraded, along with proof that all lights are on and the wheel works. Previous owners swapping LED's alone doesn't add $500-$1K in value.
Jesus Christ, you've killed him.
Well played, my friend. Well played.
You guys have made your point that you think that the machine is overpriced. Any broken record posts will be moderated as such.
Nice machine. GLWS
Quoted from dirtbag66:Jesus Christ, you've killed him.
Well played, my friend. Well played.
Did he?
These are the last three listed.... Two of them sold elsewhere in less than a week.....
Screenshot_20190319-213703 (resized).pngQuoted from Jodester:You guys have made your point that you think that the machine is overpriced. Any broken record posts will be moderated as such.
Nice machine. GLWS
Just coming together as a community to protect potential buyers from being ripped off. I would think this is something that would be encouraged around here.
Quoted from ralphwiggum:Did he?
These are the last three listed.... Two of them sold elsewhere in less than a week.....[quoted image]
Correct. Sold elsewhere...at a much lower price.
Quoted from dirtbag66:Correct. Sold elsewhere...at a much lower price.
Where does it say that it was a much lower price? Did you contact the sellers?
Quoted from dirtbag66:Just coming together as a community to protect potential buyers from being ripped off. I would think this is something that would be encouraged around here.
You have made your point then. Consider the potential buyers warned. Please see my earlier warning.
Quoted from dirtbag66:Just coming together as a community to protect potential buyers from being ripped off. I would think this is something that would be encouraged around here.
Even @Forceflow cited it a few days ago from the fine print pages to someone trying to get something for nothing...
"Pinside is a tight-knit community and an important aspect of such a community is trust. In order to protect the integrity of our site..."
I wholeheartedly agree. We are a community and have (some level of) integrity. The issue is that FS ads, no matter how ridiculous they are (See: Immaculate Baywatch, $65K TZ, $3800 beater NBAFB, $7K Met Pros, countless other ridiculous ads from new posters...etc.), it seems to have spawned a tug of war between "integrity" and profit. Maybe one of those ads convert to a sale and Pinside makes their few bucks. Problem is for that one extra blip of income, concurrently there were a handful of spam ads and another handful of overpriced new member ads that deteriorate the "integrity" of this site. If this "tight-knit community" puts money solely before community and never creates guidelines about ridding of the garbage, well, then there's no community, no integrity and we're 'eBay-Pinball'.
Sooner than later, if nothing changes, this will go the same route as Yahoo and be a shell of its former self... looking for the most extreme sources of revenue as they've burned through other channels and have had alienated the fanbase that got them to the heights they had achieved.
Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled Pinsiding...
Quoted from Yoko2una:Even @Forceflow cited it a few days ago from the fine print pages to someone trying to get something for nothing...
"Pinside is a tight-knit community and an important aspect of such a community is trust. In order to protect the integrity of our site..."
I wholeheartedly agree. We are a community and have (some level of) integrity. The issue is that FS ads, no matter how ridiculous they are (See: Immaculate Baywatch, $65K TZ, $3800 beater NBAFB, $7K Met Pros, countless other ridiculous ads from new posters...etc.), it seems to have spawned a tug of war between "integrity" and profit. Maybe one of those ads convert to a sale and Pinside makes their few bucks. Problem is for that one extra blip of income, concurrently there were a handful of spam ads and another handful of overpriced new member ads that deteriorate the "integrity" of this site. If this "tight-knit community" puts money solely before community and never creates guidelines about ridding of the garbage, well, then there's no community, no integrity and we're 'eBay-Pinball'.
Sooner than later, if nothing changes, this will go the same route as Yahoo and be a shell of its former self... looking for the most extreme sources of revenue as they've burned through other channels and have had alienated the fanbase that got them to the heights they had achieved.
Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled Pinsiding...
I like this dude. He gets it.
Quoted from Yoko2una:Herein lies the problem. It's a nice Fire, but you overpaid and are trying to convince yourself that $2.5K-$3K is fair market value. It's not. Let's consult the site you're on right now as a base reference...
[quoted image]
Now, do I believe some of the Pinside price values are lower than current market conditions? Yes. Yes I do. But that doesn't mean that good examples are suddenly worth double the above range, especially ones that need new ramps and plastics. Even if it were a 10/10 documented low play HUO, you'd probably be mid $2K to a collector (which is a narrow scope of buyers, and they probably want Champagne Ed. anyways)... but to your original post:This isn't ebay where one can expect strangers to bite on ridiculous prices. This is a enthusiasts' website basically comprised entirely of people who know what stuff is worth and call spades spades. Fire w/ broken plastics, busted ramps, and defended by someone who claims to have only owned 2 pins, and not much other experience in the hobby is wealth of red flags... even if the rest appears solid.
There's also the fact that none of your photos show the Fire wheel on, and only a few of the building windows on the PF under the wheel are lit. People will also assume that this game is unshopped. For the price, this game should mention that is has been professionally gone through and probably have had the ramps replaced, perhaps rubbers upgraded, along with proof that all lights are on and the wheel works. Previous owners swapping LED's alone doesn't add $500-$1K in value.
You are way off, dude. A 10/10 like-new Fire would sell for at least $5000. Directing seller to the Pinside Avg Value Range shows you lack a deeper understanding of how much condition impacts value on these older pins. Pinside avg range of $1200-$1500 is because avg Fire is a beater. Above avg = more. Way above avg = a lot more. CQ mint = very big bucks.
Mt Martha
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:You are way off, dude. A 10/10 like-new Fire would sell for at least $5000. Quoting Pinside Avg Value Range shows you lack a deeper understanding of how much condition impacts value on these older pins. Pinside avg range of $1200-$1500 is because avg Fire is a beater. Above avg = more. Way above avg = a lot more. CQ mint = very big bucks.
Oh FFS, did you even read the post, or just try prove you have a nice and shiny fine toothed comb?
I referenced the range and then said I personally think Pinside ranges aren't always accurate but at least give a "base" point of reference.
If you want to get into semantics about what "10/10" represents, this isn't the place. Should I have said 9.7/10 instead to leave you room for your other supreme tiers? You're wasting time and energy trying to breakdown CQ, HEP, fully restored, unmolested original, NOOB, or whatever the F else terms we now have here. Put away your magnifying glass and look at the overall message. This is a pin with some issues visible, perhaps more undisclosed. That's the issue, and not where the 0.0000001% of Fire's (which this aint) lies.
Quoted from Yoko2una:Even @Forceflow cited it a few days ago from the fine print pages to someone trying to get something for nothing...
"Pinside is a tight-knit community and an important aspect of such a community is trust. In order to protect the integrity of our site..."
I wholeheartedly agree. We are a community and have (some level of) integrity. The issue is that FS ads, no matter how ridiculous they are (See: Immaculate Baywatch, $65K TZ, $3800 beater NBAFB, $7K Met Pros, countless other ridiculous ads from new posters...etc.), it seems to have spawned a tug of war between "integrity" and profit. Maybe one of those ads convert to a sale and Pinside makes their few bucks. Problem is for that one extra blip of income, concurrently there were a handful of spam ads and another handful of overpriced new member ads that deteriorate the "integrity" of this site. If this "tight-knit community" puts money solely before community and never creates guidelines about ridding of the garbage, well, then there's no community, no integrity and we're 'eBay-Pinball'.
Sooner than later, if nothing changes, this will go the same route as Yahoo and be a shell of its former self... looking for the most extreme sources of revenue as they've burned through other channels and have had alienated the fanbase that got them to the heights they had achieved.
Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled Pinsiding...
I have been collecting since 1999, as far as I am concerned all of pinball is overpriced. I passed on TZs and CVs for $1700, because at the time, those were "sucker" prices. My last CV I sold to a friend for $3500, and I thought he was crazy that he thought it was worth that.
In all of the years I have been on Pinside, it has always been the place to sell for top dollar. Has that changed? Not really.
You guys have roasted this seller for asking $2900 for a really nice original Fire. He has only had one machine, a Fire a dealer approached him about with an offer of $3k. The last few Fires in the market were listed at 2650 and 2400. How the hell is this guy considered way off in his asking price based on his experience with pinball?
He started at 2900, and quickly went to 2650 based on input from others. He doesnt fit the typical flipper mold you guys are trying to roast him for.
Kudos guys, way to make a new person feel welcome....
The good news is that this seller is offering an above average survivor.(those are getting harder to find) The bad news is that it will probably take above average pricing to get it. How much above average? Who knows, it will work itself out like it always does.
Never wanted to start this!
It is a ~$2,000 something pin. It's not like it is 10K over priced. If it's worth 2, then it's worth 2. If it's worth 2,500 then it's worth 2,500. I want it to have a good home and willing to deal with any honest person out there. I don't need my Savior's name used in vain. I find that extremely repulsive. As I said, my worth is not made up of a few hundred dollars. My worth is more in finding nice people in life. This thread has brought out many sour, bitter folks. I'd sooner donate this to a firehouse as a previous poster did than give it to a bottom feeding person. Many people have contacted me and encouraged me. Thank you to them. For those with POSITIVE comments, thank you too. I'm an honest person, who maybe only has had a couple pins. That doesn't make me a bad person. This is a nice pin, and it will find a nice home.
Quoted from gordonshumway:Never wanted to start this!
It is a ~$2,000 something pin. It's not like it is 10K over priced. If it's worth 2, then it's worth 2. If it's worth 2,500 then it's worth 2,500. I want it to have a good home and willing to deal with any honest person out there. I don't need my Savior's name used in vain. I find that extremely repulsive. As I said, my worth is not made up of a few hundred dollars. My worth is more in finding nice people in life. This thread has brought out many sour, bitter folks. I'd sooner donate this to a firehouse as a previous poster did than give it to a bottom feeding person. Many people have contacted me and encouraged me. Thank you to them. For those with POSITIVE comments, thank you too. I'm an honest person, who maybe only has had a couple pins. That doesn't make me a bad person. This is a nice pin, and it will find a nice home.
Try not to sweat all the negative comments. Happens all the time around here. Hard to please them all. Next time you can avoid comments by placing your item in the Marketplace only. Also, I highly recommend the Ignore button, aka Make Jerks Disappear button. Very useful feature.
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