I was just talking about this topic with @jokerpoker.

Lo and behold you had the same question 10 days before me.

With the topper craze going on, I would say any classic topper like WH20, should rise with the tide as well. How much were the WH20 toppers going for before? $700? So maybe $2k now?

Just curious, would you sell your WH20 topper for $4k?

It would be tough for me even at $4k. I don't think I could part with mine.

Helping to remove some of the nails...

I am thinking of selling my extra one. I had kept it in case I get another Whitewater, but don't think that will happen. I have no idea what they worth.

That's a good question. What a shame...but 4k is 4k
Edit: although I guess it isn't because it takes value away from your game when you sell it

Your edit is exactly what I was thinking.

I think most of the classic toppers had (and may still have) repros available. I know I replaced my WW topper with a new one when I did the playfield swap. BTW WW is the best topper of all time, IT BLOWS.

WW is the best/most important topper bc without it, the game is incomplete. It only says WW on the topper so it's needed, otherwise you're playing a Wet Willie's. And those originals shine like ocean

Not Wh20, hence our convo.

$4K for a WW topper?? Holy smokes, are you kidding me!?

John

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Since you have an extra, it would be an interesting to put it up for $4k OBO and see what happens. The market will tell us for sure.

I've never understood this. I had an Addams Family for years, never had the topper. Never wanted the topper- because I liked the uniform look of the cabinet next to the other games it sat next to. Eventually I removed the flasher bulbs on the top of the backbox (took me a while to figure out they were there!) lol

I second the question for "were any of these pins, like WH20, available without the topper new?"

As for people paying "real" money for toppers and mods (where "real" money is defined by me as enough to buy another pinball machine) I just cannot understand it. The original ones at least are designed to be cheap; White Water is literally just a cardboard artwork with lighting, correct? TAF was a vacuum formed plastic with some stickers on it. I guess if I ever own a Whirlwind, I'll have to think hard about whether I stay true to my own rules for pinball asthetics and remove the topper, or keep it because of the fan that was supposed to be part of the experience.. The FishTales fish topper seems like that could be kinda pricey. There's some new Stern toppers (like the deadpool one that gives you a thumbs up or thumbs down) that I've seen for $1600.00.. Really?! That's a complete, working game even in this inflated COVID time!

Sorry for taking us off topic. I could see 90's era pins being expensive for stuff (again, like FishTales) that might contain un-obtainium parts. For like a TAF- this seems too easy to reproduce cheaply to be big money? Since I'm not a big topper guy, I have no idea what actual costs are- except for Marcospec which has cloud toppers and whirlwind toppers- both for <$200 bucks...

Does this mean my white water just became an 8k machine?
Fish Tales, White Water, Addams Family, Whirlwind, the original classic toppers.

I don't think it is in 4k territory. It is used, bit of bubbling and the plastic isn't pure white...but it still works and looks presntable. I don't even know who to sell it at this point. Everything about ebay scares me.

Not $4k. A NOS one sold not long ago for $1500, beat up used ones are going for $400 on ebay.

Would you sell your topper for $1500? If not, what is your 'yank it off and speed to the post office' price. Just curious.

for sure $4k, but I think $1500 is fair. A decent white water with no topper will bring $4-4500 these days. A decent players game for $6k with topper.

What happened to make toppers go to these insane prices? Just a couple months ago you could still buy SW toppers at distributors. It’s not like they sold out immediately. They were available for a long time.

That’s not really the topic here. I just don’t get it.

As for classic topper pricing, I don’t think they would be worth more because if you want a topper then you buy a Wh20 or WW with a topper. The vast majority of games that came with toppers, still have working toppers. Where as new sterns with toppers are in the minority.

I think it's the influx of new pin heads. Demand goes up, price goes up.

Yeah. And some are truly pinheads. At least with impulse control. Geezus...

F8CC28F2-7822-4EEA-8820-4E936D98AC13.gif

Too much money and not enough common sense.

Now the topic is on fire!

https://pinballbasement.com/collections/nos-parts/products/nos-white-water-topper-decal
This is just the decal and it sold for roughly $1,500.

Depending on what else is missing, you may still need to add:

2x light boards $36 each
https://www.ministryofpinball.com/en/white-water-8-lamp-pcb-board.html

Chase light PCB $90
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-15761

Dome $110
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8653

Decal support $40
https://littleshopofgames.com/shop/toppers/white-water-topper-decal-support-03-8745-wh20-bds/

Metal Waterfall Light Shield $XX
??

Overall cost after you source it all will be around $2K. Crazy, but not out of line with what people are spending on modern Stern ones.

It's a bit more, thanks to the unique foil process. As stated above, price is between $400 and $1500, and no wonder why: seems reproduction is not feasible without the original tool.
You can buy a new Whirlwind, TAF topper easily.

There have been at least 4 or 5 people who have tried to reproduce the effect over the years with little to no success. However the most recent attempt has either stopped or slowed way down.

Wowzers- so I was VERY wrong about the complexity of the WH20 topper- it's been a while since I've seen one IRL, but now that you all mention it, I do vaguely recall flowing water appearance from dancing lights and special image tricks on the decal (I guess special foil, eh?).. And hey, if that floats someone's boat to have their machine 100% perfect, I get it. It's just.... man, 2k- think of what pinball machines that could buy! Highspeed or PinBot, maybe?

What's the going rate on Police Force toppers? They never seem to come up for sale.

Can you find me a link to those? My search didn't come up with any used one on ebay recently. Thanks.

I think you did this on purpose. Like a good flaming thread don’t ya 4K toppers for sale

It has pushed up prices of earlier toppers. I had a Matt McKee LOTR Topper I bought here second hand 8 years ago for $100aud 2 years later I was asked to sell it and was offered $300aud, he had to have it and went to $500 which was crazy then. I see one of these recently for sale at $800usd which is around $1050aud. Luckily for me I bought a spare.....hit me up

Yeah I'd like to know the answer to that question as well.
John

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I knew I’d seen that topper before

Everything is going up, not just toppers. From my own family experience, young adults just out of college, making good bank are the reasons prices are skyrocketing. Those who chose wisely on student loans (not taking any) and high paying career paths are coming into money and they want nice things, like maybe a pinball machine for the man cave. I have nephews who I have fostered a love of pinball in by all the times they came over and played Uncle Dan's machines. So sadly, I am part of the problem by association. It doesn't help that I take them to the expo and fests and they watch me blow $8k on a MBrLE, so now that $4k for a No Fear (it actually came as a two machine deal with Motordome) was a bargain, at least to him. Oh, and is anyone interested in a rather cheap Motordome? I didn't think so...

Anybody looking to sell a WW topper hit me up. I need one. Reasonable pricing please. I ain’t paying 4K for one….

Aside from Whitewater, many of the 90s games have replacement parts available — or creative substitutes that are darn close. And why is that wrong in today’s mod world? As an example, I built a brand new fish tales topper for roughly $300. And over 1/3 of the cost was the acrylic dome.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/guide-build-fish-tales-topper-from-scratch

On the other hand, I’ve got a Gottlieb bone busters and so many of the parts of the talking skull topper are just not available nor are easy alternative parts available. If that game was popular, the topper would be commanding prices similar to modern day stern toppers...

Dang, You just can't win them all I guess. LOL.
John

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Nope.

Wh20 uses a light pattern on the embossed metallic waterfall pattern. The blinking of the lights reflection on the metal is what creates the waterfall effect. The problem is getting that embossed pattern of the right size and depth to work. The guy who came up with it passed long ago, and the original tooling is gone.

Those hamms signs I am not an expert on, but these two vids show it:

They are far bulkier than what would easily fit on top of a pin.

Tl;DR unless WH2O topper science interests you-

I was a lighting test engineer for a major aerospace lighting supplier for a while and I have done a little research into a static display system that used this technology that was also used for WH2O. I heard The WH2O topper decal could be remade if someone wants to spend the time and money, the rub being it cost a lot of money for tooling that works. It has something to do with the blade angle while etching the dies used to emboss the aluminized sticker with.

This only works with bare lamps, mostly because they act as a directional point source and the chaser distance between bulbs is the determining factor of the actual needed die etch angle. Each "frame" of animation is determined by the relative position between the illuminating lamp, the reflective surface, and the observers eye. As the lamps sequence, the angle between the lit lamp and the next lamp lit in the sequence changes the viewers "frame" so you can get a scene whose image areas either reflect light (the angle lines up the lamp filament, the reflective surface of the image area, and the viewers eye) or it reflects a dark image as the areas with a different angle do not line up.

So now you have a single scene, with areas that illuminate (reflect) when only certain lamps are lit due to their combined angle. This allows the artist to render a scene that has a arbitrary water fall shape filled with areas that cycle in order light, dark, dark - then repeat. This gives the illusion of motion that makes us think the water is moving. It's a neat effect, but the tooling to do the embossing is all centered around the lamp distance between each lamp and the observers eye position relative to the area the artist wants either illuminated or kept dark during each frame.

Also note, changing the direction of the chaser lights will make the water flow "up", as well as if you randomized the seqence, the water would look more like noise. Oh, and areas can be made to go up while others go down, this allows for the wave effects that show the water splash "up" even though the main direction is down. All you do is reverse the angle sequence in those areas.

Safecracker... Dome light/Win Magic Token topper

NBA Fastbreak ... Side and top topper with logo of NBA teams

What was the first solid state game with a topper? F14? That’s one of my favorites.

Dr Who Dalek thing?