(Topic ID: 331760)

Foo Fighter and JJP Pricing and Quantity

By iceman44

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 246 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by jgentry
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    63D608D2-FC65-421F-90A2-A23265D595C4.jpeg
    Screenshot_20230303-150716_Chrome (resized).jpg
    91iOa9+6CzL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_ (resized).jpg
    Screenshot_20230224-190021_Facebook (resized).jpg
    Screenshot_20230224-190326_Facebook (resized).jpg
    EC531C2D-5ACE-4955-B874-03C7001833B1 (resized).jpeg
    pasted_image (resized).png

    There are 246 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.
    #51 1 year ago

    I think stern premium/le price stays the same for the next game or two. It was quite a jump last time and I dont think they are seeing the orders they would like with those games. I also think they pay attention to the secondary market and no one is making money on bond le or premium. So I think the price stays at 13k and 9700 a while

    #52 1 year ago

    I’m only buying the so called used “turds” until further notice .They called LZ a turd ,I got one cheap and loved it .So games like Mando/TMNT/and LOV are on my radar .Absolutly no to TS4 as that is a real life “Turd” You can actually see the steam coming off it .

    #53 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Not butthurt, I have a smile on my face!
    I've just heard it all before over the last 20 years and wondering why this is different.
    According to you, it's because prices are too damn high.
    Sounds good! I await the demand destruction just like everybody else. Tired of paying these crazy prices.
    Pinball prices are nuts!! Am I right?!?!?
    And to answer what I think was your question, I think the prices and quantity will remain the same for this round of releases. Quantity as well. Next Stern LE will be (at least advertised as) 1,000.

    I got you. You get accused of being a Stern lackey. Not by me though.

    You really believe it! I respect your opinion and Stern is a great company

    I think the “demand destruction” will continue at these prices and quantity

    Especially initially, I don’t feel any need to buy one at the outset anymore.

    Maybe it’s the Distros that get stuck on Foo and Venom? And not Stern

    Pinball is not immune from the rest of the economy. Bally/Williams went out of the pinball business. Stern nearly went down during the 2008 crash.

    Covid pulled forward “demand” everywhere. Cars, houses, collectibles including pinball, you name it.

    It’s unwinding now. What Aurich said.

    Now it’s

    #54 1 year ago

    I don't know if you can call it demand destruction in this scenario. We are in a really weird time in our lives. Inflation is the worst it has ever been since the late 70's/early 80's. Home interest rates are now 7% plus on median homes of $300K. A loaf of bread is $3 to $4 dollars. That new soccer mom mini-van will now cost you $50K . I don't know what to call it, maybe the "fringe disposable incomes"? But they are now gone. There is always going to be a certain percentage of disposable incomes, but just how much are they going to continue to buy? The collection cannot get larger if the space to have such collection stays the same. If you have to sell a game to buy a game, you are taking another potential NIB buyer out of the market with the game you sell. Honestly, I believe the market will cap itself and companies like Stern & JJP will have to figure it out. I do believe STERN is on a path of uh oh, and it could kill them.

    This hobby is not your 20's something lifestylers buying these machines for their collection, this is a 40's and up homeowners collectible. There is a bubble, but it will not be the price bubble everyone likes to talk about. It will be the next "whatever" that knocks pinball off of it's pedestal again.

    #55 1 year ago

    I'm extremely grateful the pipeline is full of titles I'm not interested in. They're seriously doing me a personal favor
    Supply and demand has always and will always be the way. With the worlds economical status, I think all manufacturers are in for a bad time (and I sincerely hope I'm wrong).
    I do question the prices strictly from a routing stance. Make a little money while new and routed and then sell it to a private collector for the markets insane new and used prices afterwards to hopefully break even? I feel bad for these folks honestly. Open for debate as always.

    #56 1 year ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    I don't know if you can call it demand destruction in this scenario. We are in a really weird time in our lives. Inflation is the worst it has ever been since the late 70's/early 80's. Home interest rates are now 7% plus on median homes of $300K. A loaf of bread is $3 to $4 dollars. That new soccer mom mini-van will now cost you $50K . I don't know what to call it, maybe the "fringe disposable incomes"? But they are now gone. There is always going to be a certain percentage of disposable incomes, but just how much are they going to continue to buy? The collection cannot get larger if the space to have such collection stays the same. If you have to sell a game to buy a game, you are taking another potential NIB buyer out of the market with the game you sell. Honestly, I believe the market will cap itself and companies like Stern & JJP will have to figure it out. I do believe STERN is on a path of uh oh, and it could kill them.
    This hobby is not your 20's something lifestylers buying these machines for their collection, this is a 40's and up homeowners collectible. There is a bubble, but it will not be the price bubble everyone likes to talk about. It will be the next "whatever" that knocks pinball off of it's pedestal again.

    A lot of people spend beyond their means. Instead of buying a new mini van for $50k buy a 2-3 year old certified preowned one for $30k. Instead of buying that $500k home buy one for $300k or better yet stay in the existing one for now that already has a lower interest rate (or is maybe paid off). $3 - $4 for a loaf of bread? No more going to Trader Joes and Whole Foods, time for Aldi's and Costco where a loaf of bread is still under $2.

    #57 1 year ago
    Quoted from Geeterman1:

    Can you name anything in the last 20 years that resembles the current market?

    Yes.

    During every market over the last 20 years, people have been saying the pinball bubble will burst.

    #58 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yes.
    During every market over the last 20 years, people have been saying the pinball bubble will burst.

    And it did. Stern almost went out business.

    Then JJP almost went out of business

    JJP and WOZ brought a lot of people back into pinball

    #59 1 year ago

    There are a lot of Distributors that are financing inventory and storage.

    The cost of that debt has gone from zero to 60 in a year.

    These guys are going to have to pile up inventory from a lot of pinball companies.

    #60 1 year ago

    Stern surprise tomorrow!

    #61 1 year ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    This hobby is not your 20's something lifestylers buying these machines for their collection, this is a 40's and up homeowners collectible. There is a bubble, but it will not be the price bubble everyone likes to talk about. It will be the next "whatever" that knocks pinball off of it's pedestal again.

    20s something HVAC contractor here buying these machines for my collection. Just bought one from another 20s something the other week. There's plenty of new blood in the market, especially first time homeowners. The problem is the old fashioned mindset "I do everything my way and if you don't like it, hit the highway" that is ever so prevalent and toxic in the used market; because as soon as someone gives me a reason to not want to meet them I'll go find something else and they can struggle for another month to sell their 30 year old machine for 20% over last years average sale price

    #62 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Bally/Williams went out of the pinball business.

    To be fair, Bally/Williams dipped out of pinball because making flashy video penny-slots became a money tree around the late 90s and every casino and gas station (and even grocery stores) sported a line up of paycheck-busters instead of pinball machines

    #63 1 year ago

    Was told stern is announcing a new pin today....

    #64 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    In a 'normal' market used games sell for less than new games. You buy it new, enjoy it for a while, and then you sell it at some loss because it's used and worth less.
    People who don't want to pay NIB prices wait a bit and pick it up later for less. That's how it was for most of the 'collector' era of pinball. It's healthy and normal.
    This has become broken by pandemic and supply chain madness, people expect to buy a game and sell it for equal to or more than they paid for. They justify spending large amounts because it's not really 'spending' it's just banked for a bit and then they get their cash back out, and often make a little profit to boot, all while playing pinball.
    It's obviously not sustainable, at some point supply and demand evens out to make things return to normal. At that point I do wonder if this new breed of collectors who's only known the broken model is going to start bailing on constantly buying when they start losing money on their purchases again.

    Exactly. Most collectors of 5yrs or more have already seen it. Long term, I am roughly even or slightly at a loss with dozens of pins coming through my home and countless hours of enjoyment. I have no other hobby / personal interest that even comes close to that financial mark.

    Occasionally I buy a game cheap that becomes really valuable or buy a game I really want and loose money later on the sale. Long term it cancels out.

    #65 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rewdood:

    20s something HVAC contractor here buying these machines for my collection. Just bought one from another 20s something the other week. There's plenty of new blood in the market, especially first time homeowners. The problem is the old fashioned mindset "I do everything my way and if you don't like it, hit the highway" that is ever so prevalent and toxic in the used market; because as soon as someone gives me a reason to not want to meet them I'll go find something else and they can struggle for another month to sell their 30 year old machine for 20% over last years average sale price

    I think you are the exception and not the norm? I could be wrong, but damn, good for you man! I was in my 20's raiding warehouses and buying solid states for $50 to $100 a crack.

    #66 1 year ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    Was told stern is announcing a new pin today....

    Just a teaser today from what I understand. But yeah the teasers are generally an announcement because its never vague about what the theme is

    #67 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rewdood:

    But Bond was released (unfinished) on the coattails of GZ and Rush; the number 1 game to date by Elwin, and a very deep and interesting Borg layout, while Bond is an unfinished, buggy and awkward mess.
    I mean, GZ Premiums sell as fast as they are made. JP Prems, DP Prems, EHOH Prems, all these machines are flying off the line and into homes and locations for whatever price they want. Games that attract location attention will always sell for whatever price they want because they are money makers and can easily be a justified business expense/purchase, and in some cases the higher cost is BETTER for the business.

    Right. Bond may not be selling that well but doesn't matter. Stern has a library of games they can produce and sell instantly despite the high prices. Any one popular game like GZ will sell well for years. All you need is that one top tier theme or Elwin game every couple of years or so.

    #68 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rewdood:

    To be fair, Bally/Williams dipped out of pinball because making flashy video penny-slots became a money tree around the late 90s and every casino and gas station (and even grocery stores) sported a line up of paycheck-busters instead of pinball machines

    That’s right. And it was a very smart move then.

    The real world we live in today?

    Maybe I’m a little negative on the sustainability of these price hikes when Inflation data remains persistently high.

    The PCE number came in hot again today.

    The Fed is trying to kill another 2-4 million jobs to get inflation under control. Looks like the Fed will have to keep rates higher for longer.

    That’s called “demand destruction” . Housing, Autos etc already there

    Credit card debt is increasing while the savings rate is decreasing. Post Covid realities

    Both stock and bond markets are down. The wealth effect is negative.

    Wealthy people, others still with jobs and savings, credit card lines still untapped….those people are still here and buying and some always will. None of the above matters to some.

    The flipper/FOMO effect is gone that used to drive sales.

    Like most everything else, Pinball will be fine but the adjustment period I think is upon us.

    Stern can keep running popular games and selling them, the buyers at these prices will dwindle and they will have to lower them.

    The ride up the pricing mountain has been fast and furious but The Goose is worn out.

    Now bring on Foo Fighters!

    #69 1 year ago

    Weeeeee Arrrrrrrrrrre Fooooooooo Fighterrrrrrs

    #70 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    There are a lot of Distributors that are financing inventory and storage.
    The cost of that debt has gone from zero to 60 in a year.
    These guys are going to have to pile up inventory from a lot of pinball companies.

    Yuuup, its called Moral Hazard lol

    #71 1 year ago

    How about Venom with Foo Fighters music. hmm.

    #72 1 year ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    How about Venom with Foo Fighters music. hmm.

    No it’s venom with Ozzy music remember?

    #73 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rewdood:

    20s something HVAC contractor here buying these machines for my collection. Just bought one from another 20s something the other week. There's plenty of new blood in the market, especially first time homeowners. The problem is the old fashioned mindset "I do everything my way and if you don't like it, hit the highway" that is ever so prevalent and toxic in the used market; because as soon as someone gives me a reason to not want to meet them I'll go find something else and they can struggle for another month to sell their 30 year old machine for 20% over last years average sale price

    How is this different than everyone else ? Are You doing things Your way or the highway.

    #74 1 year ago

    In the 25 years I've been in the hobby, I have never seen individuals selling NIB LE games at a loss until the past couple of years (UltramanCE, HalloweenCE, Toy Story4CE, BondLE). The COVID price inflation/supply constraints certainly caused a bit of speculation/hoarding in the hobby.

    Stern will never lower prices though - they'll simply dial back the number of LEs, fill existing pro/prem orders and probably vault some classics that are guaranteed to sell. They'll adapt and survive.

    JJP however is on thinner ice - they really need a homerun on their next title or they are doomed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a WoZ/PotC re-run to stay afloat, but it might not be enough.

    #76 1 year ago
    Quoted from mtp78:

    My distributor in the know told me sterns next is not foo fighters

    Welp they were wrong lol

    #77 1 year ago

    I don’t see how Stern can charge $13,000 for FF LE’s while making 1000 of them? Distro’s will be left holding the bag! Either they lower the price or the amount of games made but somethings got to give. As for JJP raising prices (dramatically) and removing features look where it has gotten them. Distro’s are stuck with games they can’t sell and probably a lot more sitting at the factory waiting to ship but no one wants them, wake up Jack!

    EC531C2D-5ACE-4955-B874-03C7001833B1 (resized).jpegEC531C2D-5ACE-4955-B874-03C7001833B1 (resized).jpeg

    #78 1 year ago
    Quoted from Concretehardt:

    I don’t see how Stern can charge $13,000 for this while making 1000 of them, Distro’s will be left holding the bag!
    [quoted image]

    They made 1,000 Rush LEs. Why wouldn't they make 1,000 of these?

    Of all the recent band themes, nobody has less widespread appeal than Rush. Foo FIghters are actually popular all over the world.

    DEMAND DESTRUCTION!!!!!

    #79 1 year ago

    Really liking that animation style. Excited to see more. I'm an FF fan. Like them or not, Dave Grohl puts on an outstanding show and is one of the more memorable concerts I've attended in the last 5 yrs (and there has been many).

    #80 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    They made 1,000 Rush LEs. Why wouldn't they make 1,000 of these?
    Of all the recent band themes, nobody has less widespread appeal than Rush. Foo FIghters are actually popular all over the world.
    DEMAND DESTRUCTION!!!!!

    How much were the 1,000 Rush LE's again?

    $11,500? There are plenty to buy for less now.

    Times are a changin!

    #81 1 year ago

    Just would like to point out that just because they say they'll make 1,000 LEs doesn't mean they have to.

    It wouldn't look good to backtrack. Whether or not they sell 1,000 LEs or 500 due to DEMAND DESTRUCTION I would guess it will be advertised at 1,000.

    Just a prediction. No ass-tattoo or bourbon bets please.

    #82 1 year ago

    Hopefully it ships with some code

    #83 1 year ago

    Love the looks of FOO, reminds me a bit like Aerosmith.

    Can't recall who did artwork on that game? Same animation guys I think?

    I really like music pins, Foo Fighters over Rush/Zep for me but no buying FOMO here. Wait and see pricing

    That's the whole point Levi, if they advertise the fact that they will still make 1,000 LE's at $13k, whether it looks bad or not, if they can't sell 1,000 units, why not just say 500-600 and try and create some FOMO? There is zero right now.

    Hey, maybe they think they can, i don't know?

    #84 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Love the looks of FOO, reminds me a bit like Aerosmith.
    Can't recall who did artwork on that game? Same animation guys I think?
    I really like music pins, Foo Fighters over Rush/Zep for me but no buying FOMO here. Wait and see pricing

    Aerosmith was Dirty Donnie and he's sorely missed on Stern's rock pins.

    Apparently they had some kind of falling out. Maybe due to Dirty's deciding to take the gig on that Cosmic Carnival disaster.

    #85 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    How much were the 1,000 Rush LE's again?
    $11,500? There are plenty to buy for less now.
    Times are a changin!

    RushLE was $11k (or maybe $11,099), but still - $2k cheaper.

    #86 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    How much were the 1,000 Rush LE's again?
    $11,500? There are plenty to buy for less now.
    Times are a changin!

    Where are these mysterious below MSRP LE's?

    #87 1 year ago

    I don't buy NIB. But will gladly buy any used game at a fair price to play something new for a while. Bought my Bond Pro for $6000 a few weeks ago and have been really enjoying it and it'll be here for a long while as the code matures.

    These new prices are so stupid sounding if you step back from the hobby and think about it.

    #88 1 year ago
    Quoted from mtp78:

    My distributor in the know told me sterns next is not foo fighters

    No offense but this didn't age well.

    #89 1 year ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Where are these mysterious below MSRP LE's?

    They come and go in the marketplace all time. Mix in some tax and shipping as well.

    The trend is down. Not saying people are going to lose thousands of $$ on Rush but the idea that you will be able to sell that LE for more than you paid for it long term is far fetched. Way too many of them out there.

    Pinball getting back to where it should be. Buying games, get value out of playing them, and sell them when you are done for a little less.

    #90 1 year ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    In the 25 years I've been in the hobby, I have never seen individuals selling NIB LE games at a loss until the past couple of years (UltramanCE, HalloweenCE, Toy Story4CE, BondLE). The COVID price inflation/supply constraints certainly caused a bit of speculation/hoarding in the hobby.
    Stern will never lower prices though - they'll simply dial back the number of LEs, fill existing pro/prem orders and probably vault some classics that are guaranteed to sell. They'll adapt and survive.
    JJP however is on thinner ice - they really need a homerun on their next title or they are doomed. I wouldn't be surprised to see a WoZ/PotC re-run to stay afloat, but it might not be enough.

    Seriously? 90's B/W's closed out pricing at half price, DE too...The front part of your statement just isn't true, sorry.

    #91 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    They come and go in the marketplace all time. Mix in some tax and shipping as well.
    The trend is down. Not saying people are going to lose thousands of $$ on Rush but the idea that you will be able to sell that LE for more than you paid for it long term is far fetched. Way too many of them out there.
    Pinball getting back to where it should be. Buying games, get value out of playing them, and sell them when you are done for a little less.

    You are correct, prices have been dropping for sure...Getting back to more normalcy will be good for the hobby

    #92 1 year ago
    Quoted from dsmoke1986:

    Seriously? 90's B/W's closed out pricing at half price, DE too...The front part of your statement just isn't true, sorry.

    I intentionally said "individuals", not distribs or manufacturers. My statement stands.

    #93 1 year ago
    Quoted from mtp78:

    My distributor in the know told me sterns next is not foo fighters

    Did Mr. in the know know what it will be?

    #94 1 year ago

    Pricing is insane. It is highly unlikely I will be buying anything new in the future. I really hope something changes but inflation and life milestones change.
    Hopefully American pinball keeps it real.

    Spooky Stern and JJP are pretty much dead to me now.

    #95 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    We have already seen “demand destruction” with JJP and TS4
    Same with Bond 60th and maybe the LEs
    The question I’m sure JJP is asking themselves, “what next”?
    They really gonna try and launch another $15k CE with 1,000 units on Godfather
    Foo Fighters? Same pricing as Bond?
    Not a stretch to say that is NOT sustainable

    What is crazy to me is walking into a distro and see used games like Stern POTC used with a sticker on it for 9,999 and it sold in days. Just happened last week.

    I was like WTF there is plenty of room to grow.

    Prices are going up, with or without pinsiders.

    Can't wait for my Bond 60th, if it stinks out the door is goes!

    #96 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Hey, maybe they think they can, i don't know?

    Im quite sure they think they can.

    Stern is coming off X number of consecutive record sales years.

    If there is DEMAND DESTRUCTION I doubt they've gotten the memo yet.

    #97 1 year ago

    Limited Edition is on order, Can't wait!

    #98 1 year ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    but the idea that you will be able to sell that LE for more than you paid for it long term is far fetched.

    LE's have always been speculative and the title is more of an influence on the LE market price. Rush and Mando didn't go crazy, but I'm not sure you can find a Godzilla for MSRP these days, or Elvia. Or how about a Kiss LE?

    Speaking of KISS, remember when you could get them for far under msrp about a year after they were released? They were kinda dogs at the time, now you can't even find one.

    Making an overall market comment based on Rush LE's performance is what's far fetched.

    #99 1 year ago

    I am looking forward to Foo. I used to buy 1 NIB every year, with the price hike I am now every other year and more picky. If Foo looks good I’m in.

    #100 1 year ago

    DEMAND DESTRUCTION

    (at the same time has 2 dozen people are saying "in for an LE!!!!" after a 20 second teaser)

    I know it's all conjecture and we've rehashed this argument a billion times (a billion +1 coming with the next Ice post) but I don't think the goose is yet cooked.

    Pinball fans have tons of money
    pinball fans like buying games
    More home buying pinball fans than ever and it continues to grow
    A good game with a good theme is gonna keep selling ,just like the last 20 years.

    DEMAND INDESTRUCTABLE!!

    I think part of the disconnect for Ice is, that for years, Ice was one of the only guys buying EVERYTHING. Every ridiculously expensive game, every ponzi scheme hail mary, didn't matter. If it was crazy expensive, crazy risky, and if the masses thought you were stupid for buying it, Ice was in. He was the high profile outlier.

    And now, since HE is having second thoughts, he just figures that means everybody else is too. Cause if the guy who signed up to buy 3 RAZAs is sick of these prices, well, isn't everybody!??!?!!

    No. Hobby isn't just one guy.

    There are 246 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/foo-fighter-and-jjp-pricing-and-quantity/page/2?hl=xdetroit and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.