(Topic ID: 156180)

Floating an idea. Please chime in. Advanced multiple mod driver.

By TimeBandit

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    CodeII_(resized).PNG
    CodeI_(resized).PNG
    IMG_3934_(resized).JPG
    IMG_3935_(resized).JPG
    IMG_3931_(resized).JPG
    IMG_3932_(resized).JPG
    #1 8 years ago

    When I started putting together Total Lightshow I only wanted lights. Lot's of lights! But I realised that I wasn't going to bother unless I could lock those lights into the game code properly, and not being able to hack the code directly, the next best thing is to read all the inserts and switches. Thus was born the Matrix Interceptor. And if you have been following the Total Lightshow development thread you'll know what it does.

    I'm toying with the idea of taking the Matrix Interceptor from within Total Lightshow and offering it as a standalone mod-controlling board. Given that production of the PIG 2 seems to have ceased, maybe there is a need.

    So, if you aren't familiar with the board, here is a quick introduction..
    The board reads the ENTIRE insert and switch matrices of SAM(currently) machines, both Pro and Premium, and returns the following..

    Any switch/s ON,
    Any switch/s OFF,
    Any Insert lamp/s ON,
    Any Insert lamp/s OFF,
    Any Insert lamp/s FLASHING.
    It then drives 8 separate PWM power outputs (up to 6.3V), and 3 serial ouputs.

    There are no alligator clips. Everything is plugged properly into and read at the main board, not out on the playfield. The real power of the board is being able to use COMBINATIONS of the above indications, along with timing and counting, to generate really complicated triggers for mods that can not only trigger in one way, but in different ways depending on different modes for example.

    I have been thinking of GUI ideas for programming it, but as the possibilities are way too broad, it is only really feasible to program it properly though a Dev environment (it will ship as an Atmel Studio Project). Atmel Studio is free, and the only thing a user would have to do to program it is open up a window and choose which of the included chunks of code to activate.

    I would include all the code devices I have developed for GI Theatre, which include faders, flashers, timers and switch counters to name a few. All the code examples would simply be commented out, and a simple copy/paste of a block of code would have it ready to go.
    I may also include a library of standard images that can be played through LED strips via the serial outputs. LED strip images can be played at a chosen speed, can be played once or looped, and have a priority setting.

    Now it may be simply too difficult for people to use, although all the code would be there in front of you, to be of broad interest. The board is obviously operational now as it is shipping as part of Total Lightshow, but I would need to do a bit of a clean up to get it fit for general consumption.

    I'm thinking it would be around US$165(give or take, and this may change), including mounting hardware and all the cables required to get it connected. This is a bit more than the PIG 2 was, but it does more.

    If there are only four guys out there who could be bothered using it, it's a bit tough to go through the work of updating it, but enough noise from the audience may get me over the line. I will actually be doing another rev of the board if I go ahead, to get some 12V outputs on it, plus a few other tweaks. I am also in the process of getting it going on White Star and some Williams platforms.

    So, in short, it lets you read the whole machine's behaviour, and generate signals to drive your mods in any way you want. As an example, the primary use at the moment is replicating the GI lightshow and rising cross mechanism of Metallica Premium in Metallica Pro. You can dig up info from this long thread.. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ramp-lighting-in-your-face-st-pro-brought-to-lifevideo

    There are some photos below of the board and as it is mounted.

    Shout out if you would want it, or if you have any questions on how it is implemented. If it is too hard, or too expensive, or just overkill, then it may not fly as an idea, but I thought I'd put it out there. It works, it's available now, it may fill a need.

    IMG_3932_(resized).JPGIMG_3932_(resized).JPG

    IMG_3931_(resized).JPGIMG_3931_(resized).JPG

    IMG_3935_(resized).JPGIMG_3935_(resized).JPG

    IMG_3934_(resized).JPGIMG_3934_(resized).JPG

    #2 8 years ago

    Bump just in case I posted while the boards were too inactive, but the deafening silence is giving me a clue.

    #3 8 years ago

    I think we are stunned into silence. It is also during the work day.

    #4 8 years ago

    I cant say enough about how well this board/mod works in met pro! Bandit you rock!

    #5 8 years ago

    That was my biggest complaint using the PIG2 in my Tron. Running the sensor wires was a big pain in the rear. 4 wires (2 sensor, 2 power) per mod, combined with me using wire that was waaaay too long in the hopes it wouldn't snag sliding the playfield, and it was just a rat's nest.

    #6 8 years ago

    I think the issue I'm trying to clear up is whether there is really that much demand for complicated mod triggering. With something like the Lightshow it is crucial that it is constantly aware of what state the machine is in. A Flynn sign on Tron? Maybe not so much. But then, as Frax says, if you have a LOT of mods it might be useful.

    I'm trying to get it ready for a fellow Pinsider to trial on a Williams machine so it may be one of those slow-burner things that just gets more interest as uses are gradually found for it.

    I'm relaxed and will continue making it as part of the Lightshow and the add ons I have coming for that, so it will always be available. I will look at the standalone idea from time to time.

    #7 8 years ago

    I would love to see this product become available.

    #8 8 years ago

    Is the programming completely flexible? IE. Could I develop a program that could do something independent of any triggers you are gathering from the switch/lamp matrix? Perhaps at least allow registering timer events? Or if I wanted to start some effect from a matrix trigger event but turn it off after some period of time rather than another trigger.

    Would it allow over-lapping effects? Or one at a time only?

    I have been looking for something like this. Pinduino is too limited. I would buy this if it's fully programmable, supports timer, and could handle multiple simultaneous effects.

    #9 8 years ago

    Very nice. If it was for wpc versions I'd sign up for a couple.

    Maybe I just need to start buying sterns?

    #10 8 years ago

    Does this not support reading Flasher events? Would be nice to integrate all information, including Flashers.

    #11 8 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Is the programming completely flexible? IE. Could I develop a program that could do something independent of any triggers you are gathering from the switch/lamp matrix? Perhaps at least allow registering timer events? Or if I wanted to start some effect from a matrix trigger event but turn it off after some period of time rather than another trigger.
    Would it allow over-lapping effects? Or one at a time only?
    I have been looking for something like this. Pinduino is too limited. I would buy this if it's fully programmable, supports timer, and could handle multiple simultaneous effects.

    Completely flexible. The only limits are your coding skills. Program it in C++ to your hearts content. I built state machines to handle drop targets. It's providing you with lamp and switch events then you build on them as you please. I am only providing my code examples in order to get non-programmers started. If you're a developer already then have at it.

    #12 8 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Does this not support reading Flasher events? Would be nice to integrate all information, including Flashers.

    No flashers. I agree it would be nice to have everything, and on the odd occasion I admit I wanted the flasher info for a quick solution, but have so far found that combinations of lamp and switch states will get me where I need to get.

    #13 8 years ago

    A bit of code syntax for example..

    This is just a snippet out of the Met GI Lightshow. It's using some switch hits to activate the FUEL flash effect. It may look complicated to a non-programmer (it may look horrible to a better coder than me), but it shows you can use timing, and the simple commands to set power outputs to on, or to a pwm level.

    CodeI_(resized).PNGCodeI_(resized).PNG
    CodeII_(resized).PNGCodeII_(resized).PNG

    The flash operation is raw, and I would put a macro in there to make it more user friendly.

    #14 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    When I started putting together Total Lightshow I only wanted lights. Lot's of lights! But I realised that I wasn't going to bother unless I could lock those lights into the game code properly, and not being able to hack the code directly, the next best thing is to read all the inserts and switches. Thus was born the Matrix Interceptor.

    I think it sounds like an exciting product for the right type of modder. I do have a question, though. You said that you were not able to "hack the code directly" when creating the Total Lightshow mod. Forgive my ignorance, but how does Eli's ramp light mod work? I was under the impression that it does indeed respond directly to signals in the game code. Is this not the case?

    #15 8 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I think it sounds like an exciting product for the right type of modder. I do have a question, though. You said that you were not able to "hack the code directly" when creating the Total Lightshow mod. Forgive my ignorance, but how does Eli's ramp light mod work? I was under the impression that it does indeed respond directly to signals in the game code. Is this not the case?

    Eli's mod takes lamp driving signals at the CPU bus. While I take the signal down at the matrix headers, Eli is still taking the signals as an output from the pinball machine and interpreting them in a similar process to me. He is getting signals that are on their way to the driver board but are still "post-code" for want of a better expression, and having to do his own processing to return on, off, or flashing states.

    #16 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Eli's mod takes lamp driving signals at the CPU bus. While I take the signal down at the matrix headers, Eli is still taking the signals as an output from the pinball machine and interpreting them in a similar process to me. He is getting signals that are on their way to the driver board but are still "post-code" for want of a better expression, and having to do his own processing to return on, off, or flashing states.

    Got it. Thanks for the explanation!

    #17 8 years ago

    Very cool and I am interested. I'd love to play around with some lighting (maybe other stuff as well) mods on a couple of my machines but sometimes the trigger would not be another light and don't want to go hacking around looking for the signals or using clips. The price (not saying it isn't fair) might keep me from buying a bunch but I could see at least one.

    #18 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    No flashers. I agree it would be nice to have everything, and on the odd occasion I admit I wanted the flasher info for a quick solution, but have so far found that combinations of lamp and switch states will get me where I need to get.

    I think it's really good as is, but you've gone this far, how much more would it take to go the extra mile and add the flashers? I agree, often you will be able to simulate the event, but not always. It's kind of funny Pinduino does flashers, and this does everything but flashers. I'm still in for at least one regardless.

    #19 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    A bit of code syntax for example..

    Thanks for the examples. I'm wondering how the actual matrix status are integrated / get into into your system? It appears the user has to poll for these? Is it possible events will be missed? Is there any interrupt-driven behavior?

    Could you provide an event queue with all events and the application just has an event loop taking each one and tossing most of the uninteresting ones away? The user could also add their own / time-triggered events to the queue. Maybe you could provide a small kernel that does this? Do you think there would be too many to run this way?

    #20 8 years ago

    You don't have to wonder if this will be a successful product. Pinduino seems quite popular, and this does a heck of a lot more. If people don't see the value at first, they will once others start using it and see what can be done. Just add the flashers please, so we have everything!

    #21 8 years ago

    Awesome product, I'm impressed! Surprised not more people posting an interest.. Thinking about the possibilities right now, could be interested in one

    #22 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    ... I am also in the process of getting it going on White Star and some Williams platforms.

    Here's a vote for White Star - that's the one I am most interested in!

    #23 8 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    It then drives 8 separate PWM power outputs (up to 6.3V), and 3 serial ouputs.

    Can you elaborate on the outputs? Examples of how many mods / combination of mods / types of devices that could be driven? Limitations / things you couldn't do? I notice on the Total Lightshow thread (I wasn't aware of it until I came across this post), you use proprietary LED strips. What about with this?

    #24 8 years ago

    Also surprised this thread isn't getting more love. This device needs a catchy name, and maybe a better thread title? "Program your own light effects and mods with The Matrix Interceptor!"

    #25 8 years ago

    Maybe "Customizable lighting effects for your new Ghostbusters pin" would work better as the title. Bump.

    #26 8 years ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Maybe "Customizable lighting effects for your new Ghostbusters pin" would work better as the title. Bump.

    Thanks for the bump, haha, and questions. I'm generally not too worried about getting attention yet. I'm a product-speaks-for-itself kinda guy. A lot of promises get made with this kind of stuff and it's freaking hard to deliver, so softly softly.
    To your questions generally, outputs are only limited by what I want to build in. At the moment the power outputs can draw around 1.5A each, but in total they are limited to around 2A. It's all based around driving lights, but I do have a motor project going with the Met Cross.

    The serial outputs will drive WS 2812b protocol commercial LEDs. I dropped the proprietary strips as they were cost prohibitive to manufacture. They are not limited to driving those, as they are just hanging off SPI pins and can do whatever if you want to get down and build your own drivers.

    #27 8 years ago

    You had me concerned, because previously you said...

    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    If there are only four guys out there who could be bothered using it, it's a bit tough to go through the work of updating it, but enough noise from the audience may get me over the line.

    and

    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Bump just in case I posted while the boards were too inactive, but the deafening silence is giving me a clue.

    but I'm glad if you decide to go ahead, and let the product speak for itself. If I can hook it into Whitestar, put me down for one for sure.

    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Thanks for the bump, haha, and questions. I'm generally not too worried about getting attention yet. I'm a product-speaks-for-itself kinda guy. A lot of promises get made with this kind of stuff and it's freaking hard to deliver, so softly softly.
    To your questions generally, outputs are only limited by what I want to build in. At the moment the power outputs can draw around 1.5A each, but in total they are limited to around 2A. It's all based around driving lights, but I do have a motor project going with the Met Cross.
    The serial outputs will drive WS 2812b protocol commercial LEDs. I dropped the proprietary strips as they were cost prohibitive to manufacture. They are not limited to driving those, as they are just hanging off SPI pins and can do whatever if you want to get down and build your own drivers.

    I didn't read too much about your TLS, but I thought this was just separating it out from that. Now it sounds like you will be doing some re-design and updates? How difficult do you think it would be to add the flashers in? Are you considering that? Great that you decided to support standard LED strips.

    Do you have a timeline in mind? Keep us updated on this thread about your further thoughts and refinements to your design.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/floating-an-idea-please-chime-in-advanced-multiple-mod-driver and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.