(Topic ID: 18535)

Fliptronic Lag?

By lordnorth

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by jpolfer
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 11 years ago

Lately I have been playing the hell out of my TZ and TAF. Tonight my wife was playing TAF, my 7 year old daughter was playing TZ, so I decided to play Cyclone since I haven't been on it a while.

The flippers are SO much more crisp and clean than either TAF or TZ. They fire hard and quick the instant you hit the button. TAF and TZ seem to have much less snap. (Yes, the flipper assemblies on these have been replaced lately - not the coils though.)

I guess they cut back the power to keep from busting up things. And I know it is a two-tier flip for the lower and upper, but does anyone else feel like there is "flipper lag"? I would love to put the Cyclone flips on TZ... Waahooooo!

Real or Imagined? Can the power and/or lag be adjusted?

Chris

#2 11 years ago

There is no flipper lag. When you hit the button, it energizes the coil. If your flippers are really slow or weak then you need to rebuild them - and do it properly. Did you replace the flipper bushings that go in between the playfield and tgd flipper bracket? Did you use the white flipper gap tool that comes with the Williams goodie bags? Just having "new parts" does not indicate your flippers are rebuilt correctly.

#3 11 years ago

Also check the EOS switch contacts.

#4 11 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

Also check the EOS switch contacts.

It doesn't matter on his games. ( TZ and TAF )

Fliptronics, EOS points are open. And the game ignores them if not working.

LTG

#5 11 years ago

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with them. I played another TZ before I bought this one and I thought there was something wrong with the flippers because it felt exactly the same way.

I just think there is a lag. Don't know if the opticals can be adjusted or software adjusted or what.

Obviously there is a lag on the upper flippers because it is a two-stage flipper button. Push in part way and only the lower flippers flip, press the rest of the way and the upper flippers flip as well. That alone means there will be a lag in the upper flippers.

I just wonder if there is an adjustment that can be made....

#6 11 years ago

Unlike what you might think, the Fliptronics board performs no actual signal processing like the CPU. Basically all it is is a set of transistors that engage when the flipper button is pressed. There might be a controlling transistor on the CPU board to control when the flipper buttons communicate with the Fliptronics board, and the CPU can also send signals to that board to flip the flippers on its own.

#7 11 years ago

FlipTronics board operation...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#WPC_FlipTronics_I_.26_II_Boards

Granted, there is a few microseconds of lag, but normal human sight/process/react lag is about 1/2 second, so the extra few milliseconds of "lag" is hardly a factor when the flippers are operating properly.

Even system 11 flippers have a very small lag...while the electrons flow between the flipper cabinet switch and ground...186,000 miles/second divided by about 5 feet of wire...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#8 11 years ago

I understand you..I like the feel of leaf switch flippers vs Fliptronics as well personally. I feel leaf are snapper and easier to tap/control. My TZ feels sluggish as well due to the wider and larger super pin body.. Mostly mental, as my slot scoop shows..it's not lack of flipper power!

#9 11 years ago

You can check how much you need to press in the button before the switch engages and do some tweaking to adjust that if needed. Have you looked at that?

#10 11 years ago
Quoted from Spudgunman:

I understand you..I like the feel of leaf switch flippers vs Fliptronics as well personally. I feel leaf are snapper and easier to tap/control. My TZ feels sluggish as well due to the wider and larger super pin body.. Mostly mental, as my slot scoop shows..it's not lack of flipper power!

Maybe the size of the cabinet is part of it. I agree that there is power... every time I miss the slot machine to the left and it goes airborne OVER my flippers I can tell there is power there.

Quoted from markmon:

You can check how much you need to press in the button before the switch engages and do some tweaking to adjust that if needed.

No, I haven't adjusted that. Didn't realize that you could. I will look into doing just that!

Does anyone know WHY the flippers are two stage? Does it put too much stress on the electronics if the uppers flip at EXACTLY the same time as the lowers?

Chris

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from lordnorth:

Does anyone know WHY the flippers are two stage? Does it put too much stress on the electronics if the uppers flip at EXACTLY the same time as the lowers?

Chris

Same as EM's with four flippers and two sets of points on each side. Push in slightly and one fires, further and the other fires.

Manufacturers probably wanted the same pattern for players wishing to only use lower flipper.

LTG

1 year later
#12 10 years ago

Hate to resurrect a dead thread here, but would replacing the opto interrupters help with this problem?

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