(Topic ID: 258449)

Flipper - stumped

By StratDoc

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by StratDoc
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#1 4 years ago

The left flipper on a Barracora is not working - right flipper works fine. Since one flipper works and the other does not I have ruled out the relay and the transistor that controls the flippers.

Ground wire to center and inside lug results in coil firing. Pressing cabinet switch and grounding to either cabinet switch lug - flipper fires. Flipper fires in solenoid test. Pulled the driver board and resoldered J2 pin 1 and 2 for good measure. Snipped one end of the coil diode and tested - checks out good. New connector pins at J2.

What am I missing?

#2 4 years ago

When you say you are pressing the cabinet switch and grounding to either cabinet switch lug and the flipper fires, are you providing a dedicated ground? If so, i would think your left flipper button circuit is missing a ground.

#3 4 years ago

Yes, providing a ground via the ground braid in the cabinet.

My thought as well that there is a ground issue.

#4 4 years ago

If I alligator clip together the leaves of the closed eos switch and push the cabinet flipper switch while in game the flipper still does not work. This should ensure the switch is closed but still acting like it is open. I resoldered all of the switch lugs as well.

I also grounded pin 2 connector at j2 and this causes the flipper to fire.

What else should I be checking or what am I missing? It is a ground issue but do not know what else to check.

#5 4 years ago

Could it simply be the diode on the Flipper? Have you checked to see if it is bad?

#6 4 years ago

Yes checked the diode and replaced it for good measure.

#7 4 years ago

There are a couple of other strange issues besides the left flipper that I am trouble shooting. I am including them here - I don't think they are related, but.....

The right slingshot is extremely weak. Upon further inspection, the slingshot was wired in reverse - the wires for the capacitor/diode switch where connected to the the non-capcitor/diode switch. I corrected the wiring but that did not resolve the issue. I did a firepower rebuild a while back and had extra slingshot mechs. I changed the plunger, sleeve, and slingshot arm - no change in the strength of the slingshot. the coil will also randomly lock on. turn the game off and back and the coil does not lock. I also changed the coil - it fires really strong when grounded.

RESOLVED THESE TWO ISSUES - The other issues that happens occasionally are the third from the top drop target on the right will sometimes drop at the start of the game and raise and drop repeatedly on occasion in game. Final issue is that sometimes the ball does not eject into shooter lane at game start. For these last two issues I have adjusted the switches properly so that isn't the problem.

Thanks for the help.

#8 4 years ago

Check the board for cracked solder joints on the flipper relay.

#9 4 years ago

The relay on the driver board provides a separate ground for each flipper. So as Grumpy indicates you could have a cracked solder joint associated with the relay or a relay contact problem.

#10 4 years ago

Resoldered the pins on the back of the flipper relay - no luck in fixing the problem. Tried pulling the cap off the relay to look at contacts but don't think I can without breaking it. Bad relay?

Any thoughts on the weak sling shot? That has me stumped as well.

Thanks

#11 4 years ago

Had the eos switch been replaced? Sometimes you have to file the new switch as the contacts have a film on them.

#12 4 years ago

No, it has not. Original. I posted earlier that I alligator clipped the closed switch leaves together thinking maybe the contacts were bad. Started a game and no left flipper.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Tried pulling the cap off the relay to look at contacts but don't think I can without breaking it. Bad relay?

There is a molex connector in between the play field and the back box. Each flipper has a ground wire going thru this molex connector to the CPU board relay. Make sure that the left flipper ground wire has continuity thru this connector.

#14 4 years ago

Yes, it does. If I pull J2 and ground connector pins 1 and 2 after starting a game I can get both flippers to fire.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

If I pull J2 and ground connector pins 1 and 2 after starting a game I can get both flippers to fire.

Is this the play field side of the connector? Yes, then put the connector back together and pull 2J-12 connector off the driver board. Start a game and then ground each pin while holding the flipper buttons. Do they both work now?

#16 4 years ago

Yes. If I pull j2-12 and ground pins 1&2 during a game both flippers work. This is essentially bypassing the relay?

So to recap-
1) ground the coil and flipper fires
2) grounding either lug on cabinet switch and pressing switch flipper fires
3) re-flowed pins at j2-12 and pins on relay
3) checked continuity from connector at j2-12 pins 1&2 to playfield
4) pulled j2-12, started a game, grounded pins 1&2 both flippers fire.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Yes. If I pull j2-12 and ground pins 1&2 during a game both flippers work. This is essentially bypassing the relay?

Then there is a burnt trace on the board or the relay has a burnt contact.

#18 4 years ago

lots of corrosion on relay switches. any way to clean with vinegar?

#19 4 years ago

Best is to replace it, good for another 30 years.

#20 4 years ago

Actually cleaned it with white vinegar and now working. Thanks!

Any thoughts on the weak slingshot? Would think it would have be mechanical but replaced it and still weak. Also replaced coil. It will also lock on when i repeatedly fire it in game.

Last issue to resolve.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Any thoughts on the weak slingshot?

What have you done for this so far?

#22 4 years ago

1) put in a new arm - had an extra from a firepower rebuild a while back.
2) Checked voltage at coil - consistent and same as on the left sling coil which works fine.
3) replaced the diode on the original coil
4) replaced the coil
5) replaced the q10 transistor on the board with a tip102 since the coil locks after repeated firing - do not have barracora schematic but guessing same transistor as firepower
6) had some used firepower sling switches - installed them.

The coil fires really strong when the lug on non-banded side of the diode is grounded.

UPDATE - coil is now staying locked on when game powered on. previously when locked if turned game off and back coil would disengage - spoke too soon. Game off for about 30 minutes now coil disengaged when powered on

#23 4 years ago

Bumping this because I am still stumped with the slingshot. Update to my previous post......

The left slingshot coil now locks on when the game is turned on. I have replaced q10 - it tested bad - with a tip102. While I had the board out I also replaced q9 the 2n4401 even though it tested okay. Rechecked the diode on the coil to make sure it was good. Going back upstream I have two resistors and the IC9 7402 and 7408.

UPDATE- replaces ic9 and ic7 and coil still locks on. resistors r20, r21, 19 all appear to check out okay. is it the pia?

#24 4 years ago

Pulled out the logic probe. Since the left slingshot works I probed leg 13 of IC9. It probes LO. Probed leg 4 of IC 9 which is the right slingshot - it probes LO.

Probed IC7 leg 8 of for left slingshot - it probes HI. Probed IC7 leg 11 for the right slingshot - it probes HI.

I am at a loss as to why the right slingshot coil locks. Everything upstream on the driver board has been replaced - Q10, Q9, IC7 and IC9. I have continuity from 2J12-8 to the coil so no short there. IC7 and IC9 that I replaced check appear to have the right signals.

Any advice?

#25 4 years ago

I’ve been following this string, and this is just a wild thought. Verify both slingshot switches are open. Put a piece of paper between the contacts - remove the slingshot cover to easily access the contacts, or verify they are open with a meter.

#26 4 years ago

Both slingshot switches are open - verified with the meter.

#27 4 years ago

Can someone confirm that PIA 5, pin 39 should NOT be +5volts in attract mode? Shouldn't it be showing no voltage?

#28 4 years ago

Is there a cap and resistor connected to the switch? Yes cut the cap off and retest.

#29 4 years ago

Grumpy,

I have removed those - capacitor and resistor - as part of my troubleshooting. No change to coil now sticking at power on.

#30 4 years ago

Let me go back through the history of this sling and what I have done in case someone catches something I missed.

1) right sling shot is extremely weak and occasionally coil sticking after repeated fires. I replace the slingshot arm and replace the switch with the capacitor and resistor. Replace slingshot sleeve. Check coil diode but replace anyway. I also adjust the bracket.
2) non of the above affects the slingshot strength. Remains weak and random sticking of coil after repeated fires.

3) coil begins to stick more frequently. Will release when game is powered off and back on.

5) Coil begins to stick at power on.
6) replace q10
7) replace q9
replace ic7 and ic9. Test inputs and outputs with logic probe and compare to inputs and outputs for known working right slingshot - everything checks out okay.
9) check resistors associated with q10. All seem to be okay.
10) double check that switches at slingshot are open
11) removed the capacitor and resistor on slingshot switch

#31 4 years ago

So, I used my multimeter to again test special solenoid components on the driver board. I had not checked q12 since it controls the left flipper. It tested open so I replaced it. Now the right slingshot is working properly.

Why would q12 have been affecting the right slingshot unless some previous owner re-pinned 2j13 8 & 9 in reverse?

#32 4 years ago

Only so much I can help with because the online manual is very incomplete.

#33 4 years ago

thanks for all the help!!! It is fixed. I have been working off a firepower manual - assume board stuff is same switch numbers different.

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