(Topic ID: 270723)

Flipper Strength - JJP & Stern


By Animal

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by jorant
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Flipper Strength - JJP & Stern”

    • No 4 votes
      19%
    • Yes 17 votes
      81%
    • depends on the title 0 votes

    (21 votes)

    #1 7 months ago

    I checked out a JJP recently and the flipper strength was weaker than Stern. Ive since hear from different sources that there is a difference and there is no difference, so I thought I would put it out here:

    QUESTION:
    Are JJP flippers noticeably weaker than Stern?

    #2 7 months ago

    JJPs have a flipper strength setting, and from the factory they put it a bit low for some reason. It's possible the one you played was like that. You can turn it up and make them noticeably stronger, although I'd say they're at best even with stern strength when you max them out

    #3 7 months ago
    Quoted from Animal:

    I checked out a JJP recently and the flipper strength was weaker than Stern. Ive since hear from different sources that there is a difference and there is no difference, so I thought I would put it out here:
    Are JJP flippers noticeably weaker than Stern?

    On location, and certain(t)y at shows, JJP flippers are often set up weaker.
    JJP flippers come with a lot of excuses from the factory folks, but they can be teaked to come close to Stern strength,

    #4 7 months ago

    JJP flippers are definitely different that Stern flippers. I don't find them weaker. Less snappy (or Stern more snappy) I think is a better way to put it. Just something you have to get used to.

    #5 7 months ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    JJP flippers are definitely different that Stern flippers...

    Williams/DE all over again

    #6 7 months ago

    I used to prefer the feel of the WPC flippers which is essentially what JJP uses, but recently I love how Stern's flippers are way snappier and don't have that old mushy feel of JJP. It's all user preference but there is a definite difference.

    #7 7 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    I used to prefer the feel of the WPC flippers which is essentially what JJP uses, but recently I love how Stern's flippers are way snappier and don't have that old mushy feel of JJP. It's all user preference but there is a definite difference.

    I feel like the WPC flippers on actual WPC games feel way more like Stern than JJP. JJPs have their own unique mushy feel to them for some reason

    #8 7 months ago

    This always felt a bit like a Toyota (or Mercedes) handling vs Honda (or BMW) handling argument to me.

    #9 7 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    JJPs have a flipper strength setting, and from the factory they put it a bit low for some reason. It's possible the one you played was like that. You can turn it up and make them noticeably stronger, although I'd say they're at best even with stern strength when you max them out

    Thanks Zacaj, I just checked out a Dialed In and we went into the menu and turned flipper strength up to max (30). What may be influencing me is I recently swapped out flipper assemblies for my STLE and the ball flies!! As well, I have a fairly new MBr and that too has very strong flips.

    #10 7 months ago

    In my mind it’s because of the fact that the reaction time seems to be slightly slower on a Jjp game. Same feeling I have on the remakes from CGC since mm and mmr play a lot differently!
    I always tend to make my shots to late on an mmr and on point on an original mm!

    #11 7 months ago

    Ive only played JPs on location and its one of the things thats always turned me off about those machines. Stern flippers just feel better to me. Good to know if I bought one I could adjust to make them about even.

    #12 7 months ago
    Quoted from Animal:

    Thanks Zacaj, I just checked out a Dialed In and we went into the menu and turned flipper strength up to max (30). ...

    The problem with DI is that increasing the upper flipper strength makes the sim card shot even harder. Balancing act with that one.

    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    On location, and certain(t)y at shows, JJP flippers are often set up weaker.
    JJP flippers come with a lot of excuses from the factory folks, but they can be teaked to come close to Stern strength,

    Where JJP flippers 'fall down' is the ability to make strong shots from the end of the flipper bat. Dialed In is a great example where the right flipper can barely make the left orbit shot and it bogs when trying to shoot Bob targets. If the flipper is not drooped a bit, even the left ramp can be tough to make. JJP says all their games are designed for 6.5 degree pitch. They also use orange FL15411 coils in their games which medium strength. I have wondered if a blue fl-11629 coil might work better?

    Rob

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from mbrave77:

    Ive only played JPs on location and its one of the things thats always turned me off about those machines. Stern flippers just feel better to me. Good to know if I bought one I could adjust to make them about even.

    I recently sold my DILE because I hated the flipper feel. I would (probably) never own another JJP if it's the same thing.

    Rob

    #15 7 months ago
    Quoted from Rob_G:

    I have wondered if a blue fl-11629 coil might work better?
    Rob

    Has anyone tried this? ...or tried putting a Stern flipper assembly in JJP?

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from Rob_G:

    Dialed In is a great example where the right flipper can barely make the left orbit shot and it bogs when trying to shoot Bob targets.

    One of my only issue with the machine...I really dont like that. It's so confusing to me why a wide left orbit is the hardest shot in the game for me sans Sim

    #17 7 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Williams/DE all over again

    I haven't owned a DE, but I have owned a Sega. They definitely have snappier flippers compared to WPC games of the same era. So yeah, in a way, it's Williams/DE all over again. I wouldn't change out mechs or anything though. You just learn and adjust.

    #18 7 months ago
    Quoted from Animal:

    Has anyone tried this? ...or tried putting a Stern flipper assembly in JJP?

    Imagine having a collection of machines across all different manufacturers and eras. Would you do this so that all of your machines felt the same?

    #19 7 months ago

    I assume since they're the same mechs as other games, that the issue with JJPs must be a software/electrical issue. Swapping mechs probably wouldn't help.

    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I haven't owned a DE, but I have owned a Sega. They definitely have snappier flippers compared to WPC games of the same era. So yeah, in a way, it's Williams/DE all over again. I wouldn't change out mechs or anything though. You just learn and adjust.

    Feeling 'different' is a lot different from feeling bad. The bad feel of JJP flippers is definitely a major negative on my end when considering ever buying one. I think they nearly singlehandedly kill the shots of DI

    #20 7 months ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    Imagine having a collection of machines across all different manufacturers and eras. Would you do this so that all of your machines felt the same?

    No, I wouldn't... So, Im interested in getting a Dialed In and checked one out and a difference in flipper strength/feel was my biggest negative take-away. Ive never owned a JJP, but have owned a number of Sterns, CGC and Bally and didn't see as big a difference. So, I wanted to put it out here to see what the feedback is. Im not apposed to getting a JJP just based on this, but if everyone was saying "no difference" between the two, then I would plan on swapping assemblies to bring it back up to that "NIB" feel.

    #21 7 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    I feel like the WPC flippers on actual WPC games feel way more like Stern than JJP. JJPs have their own unique mushy feel to them for some reason

    Interesting. The first time I've put my hands on a JJP game the flippers instantly felt like WPC. And right after that I decided to buy one.

    Snappy is the word for Stern I couldn't have found a better one.

    #22 7 months ago
    Quoted from Animal:

    No, I wouldn't... So, Im interested in getting a Dialed In and checked one out and a difference in flipper strength/feel was my biggest negative take-away. Ive never owned a JJP, but have owned a number of Sterns, CGC and Bally and didn't see as big a difference. So, I wanted to put it out here to see what the feedback is. Im not apposed to getting a JJP just based on this, but if everyone was saying "no difference" between the two, then I would plan on swapping assemblies to bring it back up to that "NIB" feel.

    There are flipper power adjustments that you can make in a JJP game. I only own SAM games, so I don't know if you can adjust power on SPIKE/II games. I wouldn't let the flipper difference detract from owning a JJP, unless you are so use to modern Sterns that anything else feels "wrong."

    I personally don't think that JJP games feel bad.

    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Feeling 'different' is a lot different from feeling bad. The bad feel of JJP flippers is definitely a major negative on my end when considering ever buying one. I think they nearly singlehandedly kill the shots of DI

    The only one shot that I wish felt better in DI is the left orbit around to the upper right flipper. Otherwise, DI is the best shooting game of all the JJP games, and one of the best shooting games made within the last 5 years. The left ramp is fine, as is the right orbit (right ramp) and everything else in between. I think the geometry of the left orbit is off just enough where it turns clunky. I think it's too wide.

    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    I think the geometry of the left orbit is off just enough where it turns clunky. I think it's too wide.

    I dont think width has much to do with it.
    It feels weird doubting PL's geometry, but seriously how many far left orbit shots has he done...like 1?
    NGG is the only one that jumps out at me, and that's big and maybe the smoothest orbit ever.
    EDIT: + Funhouse

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    I dont think width has much to do with it.
    It feels weird doubting PL's geometry, but seriously how many far left orbit shots has he done...like 1?
    NGG is the only one that jumps out at me, and that's big and maybe the smoothest orbit ever.
    EDIT: + Funhouse

    Sometimes, we just have to tell our heroes they've done messed up lol

    #26 7 months ago
    Quoted from FatPanda:

    There are flipper power adjustments that you can make in a JJP game. I only own SAM games, so I don't know if you can adjust power on SPIKE/II games.

    I don't know whether all SPIKE 2 games are the same. On BKSOR, flipper power is adjustable (and each flipper can be adjusted separately). But it's not adjustable with quite as much granularity as other features. For example, slingshot power can be adjusted on a numeric scale. But flipper adjustment has just three options: SOFT/NORMAL/HARD.

    #27 7 months ago
    Quoted from KickahaOta:

    I don't know whether all SPIKE 2 games are the same. On BKSOR, flipper power is adjustable (and each flipper can be adjusted separately). But it's not adjustable with quite as much granularity as other features. For example, slingshot power can be adjusted on a numeric scale. But flipper adjustment has just three options: SOFT/NORMAL/HARD.

    On Star Wars there's no adjustment for the flippers at all. Must have been added some time in between

    #28 7 months ago

    Ive tried to find it on STLE, but couldn't...

    #29 7 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    On Star Wars there's no adjustment for the flippers at all. Must have been added some time in between

    According to the change notes, Star Wars is on "System 2.06" and BKSOR is on "System 2.43". I don't know what features were added in each System release, but that's close to a two-year gap, so there's room for a lot of things to change.

    #30 7 months ago

    I like how stern have a faster feel, but I hate how older stern have that buzzing sound when holding them. Makes them feel like a cheap toy. Jjp feel like w/b to me.

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