(Topic ID: 280724)

Flipper solenoid wiring - Stern Lectronamo - pics?


By pb456

78 days ago



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  • 24 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 77 days ago by Quench
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#1 78 days ago

This is a two flipper, blowing F4 (7a was in there, blew, freaked out, put 5a in)...

Only on the right flipper! All other solenoids fire including left flipper.

I think that maybe I have a coil problem but would like a sanity check - anyone able to post clear pictures of left and right flipper wiring to the solenoids?

Thank you berry much.

#2 78 days ago

No picture handy, but I can give you the wiring order.

Outer terminal with banded end of diode. This terminal should have two wires on it. One will be the power wire, which will be the same color as the same terminal on the other flipper, I believe it's a blue/white wire. There could be two blue/white wires here as one flipper daisy chains power to the other. The other wire on this terminal will go to either terminal of the EOS switch.

Center terminal. This terminal should have one wire going to the other terminal of the EOS switch.

Outer terminal with non-banded end of diode. There should only be one wire remaining and it connects to this terminal. It's the flipper return (ground) wire. The wire is not the same color as the same terminal on the other flipper.

#3 78 days ago

So, like this is what I'm inferring...

Banded side of the diodes on the AQ-25-500

Left lug (on the banded side of the diodes) - EOS wire, two power wires (blu/wht).

Middle lug EOS wire

Right lug (farthest from banded side of diodes) return wire (org).

#4 78 days ago

...

#5 78 days ago

hope this helps

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#6 77 days ago

Something's not right... here are pics from my flipper setup.

First pic is left and right.

Second, third, fourth pic are left.

Fifth and sixth pic are right.

I've verified that the transistor Q15 and associated circuit appear to have good components.

I do show a problem with Q19 and it does not appear to be the board, but Q19 is shorted when I attach J3 on the SDB.

One problem at a time - the purple wires on the right flipper are extensions as the blue were too short.

PXL_20201101_220005550 (resized).jpgPXL_20201101_220017412 (resized).jpgPXL_20201101_220039466 (resized).jpgPXL_20201101_220049961 (resized).jpgPXL_20201101_215931645 (resized).jpgPXL_20201101_215950691 (resized).jpg
#7 77 days ago

One thing I can see now that I posted the pictures - the screws holding the EOS switch in place look to be quite long - nothing I detected when I was installing - perhaps they're cutting into the coil?

#8 77 days ago

Your EOS switch on the left flipper is backwards. The switch is supposed to open when the flipper activates but the way it's currently fitted, the switch always stays closed meaning the hold (low current) winding never engages and the thrust winding is always pulling high current.

#9 77 days ago

OMG what an oversight. I can't believe I missed that. Must have been when I was doing the flipper rebuild kit.

#10 77 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

Must have been when I was doing the flipper rebuild kit.

You forgot the step about gapping the EOS switch, then you would have seen it

#11 77 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You forgot the step about gapping the EOS switch, then you would have seen it

You're right - I should have double-checked my work. Late evenings working on pins once again.

I have to dig deeper on this one - I thought I had it all buttoned up and then before the owner was going to come by I figured I'd go above and beyond and really put the finishing touches on it. How right I was.

I know I still have a short issue on the PF as J3 when connected to SDB shows Q19 shorted, not when J3 is unpluged. Right flipper also does nothing and blows F4. I'm not seeing a short on J3 and I think I'm going to have to dig deeper on the underside of the PF to find Q19's shorts and figure out why now right flip no workie.

Tracking down the problem still. So damned close.

#12 77 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I know I still have a short issue on the PF as J3 when connected to SDB shows Q19 shorted, not when J3 is unpluged. Right flipper also does nothing and blows F4. I'm not seeing a short on J3 and I think I'm going to have to dig deeper on the underside of the PF to find Q19's shorts and figure out why now right flip no workie.

Tracking down the problem still. So damned close.

Q19 is for the coin lockout coil on the coin door. It goes through J2, not J3. It's common for people to disconnect it and leave the wires floating usually resulting in the 43V wire shorting against the metal door assembly that's grounded.

SDB_Q19.jpg

#13 77 days ago

quench do you have a high-res scan of that SDB schematic you can share? TIA. I was reading the Bally one from Eight Ball and can see some slight differences.

#14 77 days ago

quench NVM - it looks like you got it from IPDB... I'll try to follow that, thanks!

#15 77 days ago

I cut out the coin lockout relay, and tested the diode. Looks bad to me, both directions showing >.5v.

Q19 does show short from collector - emitter. I'm guessing this is a TIP 102 equivalent, pin 1 being base, pin 2 being collector, pin 3 being emitter.

I can't see yet how Q19 is related to the flipper issue - yet.

SDB schematic 1 (resized).pngSDB schematic 2 (resized).png
#16 77 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I can't see yet how Q19 is related to the flipper issue - yet.

What makes you think they're related?

Quoted from pb456:

I cut out the coin lockout relay

I hope you're not removing the coin lockout coil?

#17 77 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

What makes you think they're related?

I hope you're not removing the coin lockout coil?

I don't think they're related, but there is something on the schematic that shows me there is a common path to ground the emitter on Q19 and Q15.

I cut out the coin lockout coil temporarily, and found the bad diode. Cut the diode out and it does indeed show it's bad.

Enlighten me when you're able.

#18 77 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I don't think they're related, but there is something on the schematic that shows me there is a common path to ground the emitter on Q19 and Q15.

All the driver transistors have their emitter connected to ground. The transistor collectors are individually connected through the wiring harness to the coils. When a transistor gets enough voltage on the base leg, it effectively switches the collector to the emitter (ground) completing the circuit for the coil. You will note 43 volts is connected to all coils. It's the ground line that gets switched to activate the coil.

#19 77 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

All the driver transistors have their emitter connected to ground. The transistor collectors are individually connected through the wiring harness to the coils. When a transistor gets enough voltage on the base leg, it effectively switches the collector to the emitter (ground) completing the circuit for the coil. You will note 43 volts is connected to all coils. It's the ground line that gets switched to activate the coil.

So I was chasing two problems then, I think I understand.

Q19 has been replaced, and no longer C-E-G short exists.

Q15 does not show a short C-E-G.

As far as I can see, wiring to the right solenoid (left EOS corrected) is correct. I'm unsure on this.

One thing I do know, for sure, is that the EOS switch is shorted - opened or not - on the right coil. Did a sanity check just now.

The short exists across all three lugs on the coil.

I cut one leg of the EOS switch out, and it's registering correctly.

I show continuity across all three lugs on the right coil with the EOS connected - from one leg of the switch, switch wired on lug 1 and 2, checking continuity to all lugs. EOS open or closed.

Delving deeper on the solenoid, banded side far left, calling this lug 1, I show continuity with all wires clipped from 1 - 2 - 3, from 2 - 3, from 1 - 3.

Same test on another coil shows no continuity on 1 - 2, but continity between 2 - 3.

Dang it! I must have a bad solenoid.

#20 77 days ago

BTW - solenoid test on installed solenoid was with all wires clipped off.

#21 77 days ago

I don't see any wiring problems with the right flipper mech.

You should check coils in resistance mode, not continuity mode.

With the machine OFF, put your meter on resistance mode (2k ohm scale if it's not auto-ranging). What resistance do you measure between the flipper coil lugs 1-2 and 2-3?

[Edit] do the resistance checks with the EOS switch open.

#22 77 days ago

1-2 380 ohm, 2-3 3.4 ohm.

So I understand, I ran the test in resistance mode a few times before I put the coil in. Showing similar results.

I pulled the diode off of 1-2 and it showed something really strange, both directions, well under .02v. Nothing like I would expect to see with a diode.

I replaced both diodes, one on 1-2 and one on 2-3 with 1N4004. Now I do not show continuity on 1-2. Continuity exists on 2-3 as it does with the other solenoid.

You're worth at least twice what they pay you quench . Thank you for the help.

#23 77 days ago

Got it!

Damned solenoid/diodes on solenoid.

Reattached coin lockout coil. Q19 (and Q15) are happy.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YMYZ93-XvO2wxf1EgmZ9cmpSCDAMLsM7/view?usp=sharing

PXL_20201102_084608147 (resized).jpg
#24 77 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

1-2 380 ohm, 2-3 3.4 ohm.

These DC resistance readings are good so the actual coil windings are ok.

Quoted from pb456:

I pulled the diode off of 1-2 and it showed something really strange, both directions, well under .02v.

She's shorted alright..

Well done! And good to hear your sound board is in tune (which is rare).

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