(Topic ID: 144513)

Flipper Parade (Gottlieb) : various problems


By oldtowner

4 years ago



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  • 13 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by oldtowner
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There have been 14 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

looseWire02.jpg
SDC16511.jpg
SDC16458.jpg
SDC16508.jpg
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SDC16460_copy.jpg
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SDC16001_copy.jpg
FP002.jpg

#1 4 years ago

Hi Folks, this is a continuation of the thread Gottlieb Flipper Parade Power.

Thanks to heldereflippers, I now have a stable 110v supply. (The machine had transformer for 220v in, for France, and I'm 240v in, in UK. New extra transformer now fitted correctly, power OK.) Now, I can concentrate on the problems that have been evident since supplying power. Heldereflippers is kindly continuing to help.

My experience of fixing problems on pinballs is about zero. I have some experience with radio schematics (or circuit diagrams, as we call them here) but reading an em schematic is a bit of a challenge for me, but I'm persevering. Usual problems of faded wire colors, etc. I'm slowly getting used to reading a test meter, and I can solder. I thought I'd record progress here. Please feel free to "chip in". First, some general photos. Numbers refer to photo immediately below.

Photo 001
FP002.JPG
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Photo 002
SDC16001 copy.JPG
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Photo 003 [comparison photo on IPDB: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=895&picno=31576]
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Photo 004 [comparison photo on IPDB: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=895&picno=31575]
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Photo 005
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More to follow....

#2 4 years ago

Now, a couple of things I noticed while poking around. The switch on this relay (I haven't identified it yet) stays closed when I manually operate the relay. So, it's never open. That doesn't seem right?

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Photo 006
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There's a screw missing from the score motor fitting, so looks like someone may have had that off in recent years.
Photo 007
SDC16444 copy.JPG

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Problems are: when powering up:

* The back box lighting comes on
* The score motor turns (but doesn't stop)
* Animation feature (cannon) fires continuously
* Large bell in Back Box rings continuously
* Playfield dead (no lighting, no bumpers/slingshots operating. EXCEPT - I did one time get a bumper to operate by nudging bumper skirt. I then tried to operate a slingshot - machine cut out.)

First time powering up I had to click the coin switch to get the machine to start. Coin switch seems OK:

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Photo 8
SDC16460 copy.JPG

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I have some things to try today and tomorrow.

#3 4 years ago

The pic of the contact closure, thats the 110 volt hold relay. The coils is burnt, probably not too functional and that is why somebody has bent the contacts closed. Until you can get a replacement coil leave it as such. And you may want to bend it a little more or jumper it.

The normal start up sequence is for the cannon to fire five times as it sets up balls. If I had to guess something has got the start jammed closed. I see the coin switch, it does look fine but you could still have a short in it. Discounnect the door harness but jumper the slam switch wires at the jones plug and see if its still firing cannon

#4 4 years ago

No screw is used in that spot on the score motor plate (only three screws are used to mount the plate to the motor).

#5 4 years ago

How many balls must be in a Flipper parade?

#6 4 years ago

Re: 110v hold relay - Thanks pinhead! I'll jumper it for now - I can see that it's sometimes arcing. And I'll double check the coin switch, as you describe.
Re: screw in score motor plate: Thanks DirtFlipper! How many people on this planet would know that? It's something of a relief, too.
Re:"How many balls"... good question heldereflippers, and where should they be when I'm testing, if they are needed for continuity or whatever?

Some developments today. I got lights! Managed to get the playfield lamps on.
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Photo 009

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Photo 010

SDC16506.JPG

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Details later..........

#7 4 years ago

Flipper Parade is an AAB, 1 ball

#8 4 years ago

Thanks pinhead! When I get back to this on Saturday, I'll "Disconnect the door harness but jumper the slam switch wires at the jones plug and see if its still firing cannon". One thought - at present I mostly have the large Jones plug in the backbox unplugged to stop the bell/cannon driving me nuts. Obviously, I'll plug back in when doing this test. But ... does the Units score reel relay (assuming the terminology Thousand, Hundreds, Tens, Units) have to send a pulse to the score motor to indicate that the reels are back to zero? If so, do I need to always have the backbox Jones plugs in to test whether I've cured a problem elsewhere? (Consider me a total newbie in pin repair, if that isn't already obvious.)

Then I'll continue checking over the relay bank, and try to familiarize myself with what's happening.

For those who don't know this particular machine, here's the bank (shown from the position I need to be to lift it up and check it out, so labels upside down)

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Photo 011
SDC16508.JPG

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Photo 012SDC16458.JPG Checking out the relay bank.

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As shown above, I have already discovered how to get the playfield bulbs alight. More about this after I get back to the workshop at the weekend. I shall also be reading up as much as I can online about em pinball repair, especially stuff about Gottlieb start-ups, non-stopping score motors etc (links to the most relevant sites/pages appreciated) but other useful subjects too.

And as always, thanks everyone! This is a demanding task for an old geezer with minimal experience, but it's certainly keeping my brain active.

#9 4 years ago

The game will not be able to complete/detect the reset sequence without the backbox plugged in. It needs to detect that the score reels have all reached zero.

#10 4 years ago

Thanks DirtFlipper - that's what I was thinking might be the case. I can remove the bell dome to lessen the noise. Any safe way to disable the canon?

In the meantime ... I managed to get 20 minutes in the workshop this afternoon, so I thought I would check over the wiring connections. In the back box, I found this detached wire...

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Photo 013
SDC16511.JPG

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I've just looked at the back box photos that I posted earlier in the thread, and there was evidently something not right at that point.

Photo 014
looseWire02.JPG

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Now, I'm not thrilled at the prospect of taking that unit apart to fix it, while the game is still not working. But if it is (or might be) part of the problem, I'll get the back box onto the bench now (well, on Saturday), and get on with it.

#11 4 years ago

Well, there has been a development since Thursday. This afternoon I taped that loose ball count connection to where I think it should go. The I removed the large bell dome. With everything else (Jones plugs etc) plugged in, I powered up. Flickering lights. The usual repeating of the canon fire, and rotating of the score motor, but then .... it stopped. (Maybe I then clicked the coin switch to reset the game, can't remember.) I tentatively tried the ball lift, and got a ball into play. Playfield bulbs on, bumpers, slingshots and flippers working! I had to assist the ball around of course (all rubbers perished). When the ball went into a gobble hole it didn't come out, so I had to put some extra balls into play. Then I filled the gobble holes with paper, and carried on. When a slingshot or bumper operated, the playfield lights would often go out. A gentle thump to the apron brought them back on. I got the feeling that it wasn't the specific playfield switches being operated that caused the lamps to go out, but just the general vibration. (Lamps were also going on and off as I lifted and lowered the playfield.) I got to "Game Over" (game over light came on) but there was still a ball to lift, maybe because of the extra pinballs I'd added. Then I tried restarting the game, and that worked fine. Had another 'game'. Target spinning when it should, stuff generally happening.

So ... I don't know what I did, but it's coming back to life. Fingers crossed that I don't get a return of the gremlin that meant the score motor wouldn't stop, or I'll be in trouble again. 110v 'Hold relay' replacement coil has been ordered. And - I have to find that dirty switch /loose contact or whatever's causing the intermittent playfield lighting problem. And then ... lots and lots of TLC.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

Winston Churchill.

Thanks to everyone who's been giving advice.

#12 4 years ago

Jolly nice apparatus, old chap!
Good to hear you got that thing going, it looks like a nice machine.
For your pf lights: look at your T contacts, they are in the circuit.

#13 4 years ago

Thanks, heldereflippers! I'm becoming rather fond of Flipper Parade - so long as it continues to behave itself. Now I have to tidy up the power supply temporary wiring and get the transformers into the cabinet, find out what happened to the two balls that went into the gobble holes and didn't come out, then I'll check out those T contacts. Update in a week or so, unless I get a problem that I can't resolve in the meantime.

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