(Topic ID: 174585)

Flipper Parade (1961) pop bumpers - random scoring

By oldtowner

3 years ago

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  • 23 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by oldtowner
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#1 3 years ago

Just working through the various issues with my Flipper Parade. Most problems now fixed, but advice on this one would be appreciated. All pop bumpers sometimes score, sometimes don't. For one ball everything works perfectly, then a ball (or two) later - none of the pop bumpers score when hit by the ball. Then they might be OK for the next ball (or not), and so on. The bumpers activate correctly all the time, and light up (1 and 10 points) when they should. When they are scoring OK, they score correctly (1 when unlit, 10 when lit). But it seems to be random as to whether they will score with the next ball in play. I have the schematic, but don't really know where to start!

#2 3 years ago

Sounds like a loose connection. try giving each wire for the pop bumpers a little tug to see if one is loose.

#3 3 years ago

But don't the pop bumpers work independently from each other? My problems is they all score, or none score.

#4 3 years ago

Pop bumper can give the machine a little shake and cause a connection to make/break. Because it is the 10 point side I would focus on tracing 10 point electrical path. Also make sure the switches are making a good connection. I had a NO/NC switch with a bad gap.

#5 3 years ago

Just to make it clear ... All bumpers kick correctly at all times when hit by the ball. With one ball - all bumpers score (one, or ten when lit) .... with the next ball (maybe) no bumpers score, etc. While any particular ball is on the playfield, the bumpers are always consistent - they either all score correctly, or none score, until the ball is drained. So it isn't simply vibration that's causing the problem. It seems to me that the problem has to be (?) a relay that affects all bumper scoring together - but is unpredictable ball-by-ball. If I knew what that relay is called I could probably find it, but it isn't obvious to me from the schematic or from looking in cabinet and backbox.

#6 3 years ago

Ok. Then ignore my previous posts. Sorry mis-read your 1st post.

#7 3 years ago

I am not familiar with that machine or with Gottlieb in general. It now sounds more like an end of ball issue I would focus more on what happen there that would disrupt the pop bumper scoring.

#8 3 years ago

Hi Argosy, yes that's what I'm doing, but no luck so far. I'm hoping a Gottlieb Guru will point me in the right direction.

#9 3 years ago

Hi oldtowner
in post-1 You write "have schematics". May want (?) to show the part of schematics "feeding the 1-Point-Relay, feeding the 10-Point-Relay". Your pin is an 1961 pin (rather old) - it is an "Add-A-Ball-pin" (rather seldom, special). The best in schematics I have is "Buckaroo" - there is an O-Match-Relay --- a Switch on "O-Relay" is in the line to "N-1-Point-Relay" (with some fantasy / imagination I also may say "in the line to M-10-Point-Relay").

Maybe Your "mobile phone / cellular phone / Handy" has a camera and You can take a picture of the area in the schematics and upload it --- in format JPG (?). Greetings Rolf

#10 3 years ago

Hi Rolf,

I hope to get back to the game (and my schematics) in the workshop tomorrow, but might be Thursday. Then I can send the photo of the relevant area on the schematic. Many thanks for offering to help.

#11 3 years ago

Considering all bumpers are the same amount when unlit, I would suspect they use the same wiring up to the 1 and 10 point relays. The yellow pop bumpers light together, and the reds together, in this game, correct? That is the usual way. The way these pop bumpers work on nearly all older machines is say you hit one yellow bumper with your ball - the other one would fire as well. It was done to simplify things, all pop bumpers of the same set (i.e. same color, and they light together) fire together due to how these machines are wired up - saves extra resources and "logic" inside of the game.

Each pop bumper set likely has its own locking relay, so 2, which are locked on when the pop bumper sets are lit, and off when they are not. There is likely a make-break switch here that is like the following, this is the "off state" which would then switch when the relay is locked on:

emissueflipperparade2 (resized).png

#12 3 years ago

Hi Otaku - re: your first paragraph - yes, that's all correct. Regarding the two locking relays - I think that's right, I'll be sure tomorrow (or Thursday) when I get back to my workshop and the schematic.

#13 3 years ago

Hi Folks - well here are two pix of the schematic. Slight overlap. And just to repeat - bumpers kick and light correctly at all times. With one ball they score correctly, with another ball - no scoring.

Suggestions gratefully received!

parade0002a-min (resized).JPG
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#14 3 years ago

Have you looked at the C and K relays ? maybe weak switch?

#15 3 years ago

Hi oldtowner
the theory is wacky - I see the Score-Motor-Switch-1C (Normally-Closed) - near "6" on the right, second JPG, post-13. IF (if, if) the Score-Motor slightly overruns or stops slightly before Home-Position: This SCM-1C may be open --- NO scoring through the C- / F- /// K-/ G-Relays.

Well, the theory is wacky - when the Score-Motor is turning several times "having ONE specific ball in play" - if / when ... then: Your fault should show-up and dissapear on every ball.
So only have a short look: When the bumpers score:LOOK at the Score-Motor-INDEX-Wheel (sitting next to the real motor) - Nicely in HOME-Position --- well, and when "no scoring" - is the Score-Motor in HOME-Position ? Greetings Rolf

#16 3 years ago

Hi Rolf. Not sure what you mean by 'the theory is wacky' - but I'll certainly try to find that SCM-1C switch, and check the IndexWheel /Score motor (Home position), tomorrow. Thanks for your suggestions - and Dr-of-Style too. If I have no success, I'll make a short video showing what happens.

#17 3 years ago

Well, I think I'm getting there. The curved arm that is on the switch stack bottom left of photos, sometimes does - and sometimes doesn't - drop into the indent/s in the top disc. When it does, bumpers score. When it doesn't, they don't. I can make the arm drop into the indent by turning the disc manually slightly when it stops. So ... I need to adjust the position of that curved arm slightly? Position of the switch stack doesn't seem to be adjustable. Should I maybe take the arm out of the stack, elongate its screw-holes so that I can move it back further into the stack? Or ????

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#18 3 years ago

There's a video here:

#19 3 years ago

The switch dog (metal piece) can be put in different slot positions. If there is a card stapled to the inside of the cabinet that's titled "motor switch positions", it will show the proper slot for it.

#20 3 years ago

Thanks jr! I'll check that out.

#21 3 years ago

Hi jr - I found that label, which suggested that both of the 'dogs' visible from the top were in the wrong slots. however, if I had moved the problem dog, it would have made the situation worse. So I bent it very slightly- and problem solved. It now falls into the indents every time. No other problems - as far as I can tell from the one game that I had time for. So thanks everyone for your input - and no doubt i'll need your help again before too long! But I'm learning all the time.....

1 week later
#22 3 years ago

The situation in your video should never happen. The switch dog that was hanging at the edge of the cam detent is the motor 1C switch stack. That switch stack contains the motor runout switch. The runout switch ensures that the motor will run until the switch dog in question drops into the cam detent. That is the home position for the motor and it must always stop there. The fact that this was not happening indicates that your 1C runout switch is not working.

The runout switch is the set of contacts closest to the cam. You need to clean and adjust these contacts so that the motor runs back to the home position any time that the 1C switch stack is out of the cam detent. Otherwise you will continue to have "gremlin" problems with your game that will come and go and will be very annoying. For example, if you happen to turn off or unplug the game while the motor is running, you will not be able to get it to start up again using the replay button because the motor will be stuck in the non-home position.

If cleaning and adjusting the runout switch doesn't cause the motor to always return to the home position, then check the wiring to the runout switch.

As for the position of the switch dogs, they should all be in the "S" position (the slot closest to the switch mounting screws) except for the dog at the 2C motor position, which should be in the "L" position (the slot farther from the switch mounting screws).

- TimMe

#23 3 years ago

Hmmm - well from what I remember that means that two of the switch dogs are in the wrong positions, so there's been some incorrect re-assembly at some point - possibly in an attempt to alleviate problems caused by the 1C runout switch. Anyway, that's very useful info TimME. Now for the somewhat nerve-wracking (for me) job of disassembling various switches/dogs, adjusting/cleaning, and reassembling correctly. I'll start by checking that 1C switch. But not today - I've got the flu.

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