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(Topic ID: 277050)

Flipper Options for a 24vac Williams Big Chief 1965


By bigguybbr

40 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 34 days ago by bigguybbr
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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IMG_1251 (resized).JPG
Williams Flipper EOS switches (resized).jpg
IMG_1234 (resized).JPG
IMG_1217 (resized).JPG
IMG_1209 (resized).JPG
IMG_1207 (resized).JPG

#1 40 days ago

I picked up a 1965 Williams Big Chief EM with the plan to clean it up and turn it into a fun playable cab. This cabinet is 95% functional already, but what stands out to me is that the flippers aren't great.

Looking inside, the left flipper coil burnt at some point, and someone slapped a mystery coil in it place, and left a garbage bushing in there that lead to the flipper rub on the playfield.

Since I need to rebuild these, and will likely replace the coils while I'm at it, i'm wondering if there are any options for flipper assemblies that I could swap these out for. These also use an odd make/break EOS switch that would be nice to get rid of when replacing since they are tough to find. Any suggestions would be welcome.

IMG_1234 (resized).JPGIMG_1217 (resized).JPGIMG_1207 (resized).JPGIMG_1209 (resized).JPG
#2 40 days ago

I looked at PBR. I would think a lot if that would be replaceable but they exclude those EOS switches. Never seem those before and I have three mid 60s Williams games.

Why did they do that?

#3 39 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Why did they do that?

I don't think you are going to get a good answer to that, because I don't think there is one. I think they tried to get cute with the engineering, but it was just a bad design. The adjustment has to be just right for it to work properly, but here is how to make it work perfectly. Put a jumper wire across the NO switch (that is the low power leg) or bend the solder tabs together and solder them closed and forget about it. Adjust the NC switch (high power) as normal so that it breaks open near the end of stroke. That's it. When you first activate the flipper, current will flow through the path of least resistance (high power leg) until it breaks open, then it will flow through the permanently closed jumpered leg to hold the flipper up.

#4 39 days ago

I'd just find what coil is used by the next game after this which doesn't use the MB switches. Install two of them and two normal NC EOS switches. Rebuild the rest of the mech as normal

#5 39 days ago

I don't think I've ever played a Williams Big Chief before.

It reminds me a little bit of the Right EOS switch assembly on my Firepower flipper, where of course, one of the switches actuates the lane change feature.

Does this machine possibly use the EOS switch to change the state of something else on the playfield?

#6 39 days ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

Does this machine possibly use the EOS switch to change the state of something else on the playfield?

No, but that's the same thought Steve Young at PBR had when I talked to him about it years ago. It takes about 30 seconds to put a jumper across the NO switch and you now have a regular E.O.S. switch just like any other EM, and you can convert it back to stock if you ever wanted to in 30 seconds by removing the jumper.

#7 39 days ago
Quoted from sudsy7:

No, but that's the same thought Steve Young at PBR had when I talked to him about it years ago. It takes about 30 seconds to put a jumper across the NO switch and you now have a regular E.O.S. switch just like any other EM, and you can convert it back to stock if you ever wanted to in 30 seconds by removing the jumper.

Where do the wires on the second switch go? Can't tell from the pictures.

#8 39 days ago

Compare the more common normally closed EOS switches in Alpine Club (above) with the make/break EOS switches on Big Chief (below).
Williams Flipper EOS switches (resized).jpg
In both cases the right half of the coil is the high powered kicking coil that is always active when the flipper button is closed and the left half of the coil is the low power holding coil that gets added into the circuit by the EOS switch at the end of the flipper swing. Jumpering across the normally open part of the switch in the lower example as sudsy7 suggests would make the circuits the same although the flipper coils are different.

/Mark

#9 39 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Compare the more common normally closed EOS switches in Alpine Club (above) with the make/break EOS switches on Big Chief (below).
[quoted image]
In both cases the right half of the coil is the high powered kicking coil that is always active when the flipper button is closed and the left half of the coil is the low power holding coil that gets added into the circuit by the EOS switch at the end of the flipper swing. Jumpering across the normally open part of the switch in the lower example as sudsy7 suggests would make the circuits the same although the flipper coils are different.
/Mark

So this make me wonder if I can wire mine like the Alpine flipper setup you mentioned with the usual NC EOS SW and forget the make/break EOS entirely.

#10 39 days ago
Quoted from bigguybbr:

So this make me wonder if I can wire mine like the Alpine flipper setup you mentioned with the usual NC EOS SW and forget the make/break EOS entirely.

Of course you can do that if you want to do the extra work, but if you just bend the solder tab of the the NO switch to the common wire and put a dab of solder on it, it is essentially the same thing - just much easier. You will not get any more performance doing it the other way (unless of course you change to higher power coil).

#11 39 days ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

I don't think I've ever played a Williams Big Chief before.

Play-wise it's a pretty fun EM. The score selector wheel changes up the lighting and scoring of the play field elements. With flipper adjustments, I imagine it would play decently fast. What is weird is this vid I found of game play where this machine has a pop-up ball saver that mine doesn't have

#12 39 days ago
Quoted from sudsy7:

Of course you can do that if you want to do the extra work, but if you just bend the solder tab of the the NO switch to the common wire and put a dab of solder on it, it is essentially the same thing - just much easier. You will not get any more performance doing it the other way (unless of course you change to higher power coil).

The flipper rebuild kit I ordered comes with a new NC EOS switch, so I might as well use it

#13 39 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Compare the more common normally closed EOS switches in Alpine Club (above) with the make/break EOS switches on Big Chief (below).
[quoted image]
In both cases the right half of the coil is the high powered kicking coil that is always active when the flipper button is closed and the left half of the coil is the low power holding coil that gets added into the circuit by the EOS switch at the end of the flipper swing. Jumpering across the normally open part of the switch in the lower example as sudsy7 suggests would make the circuits the same although the flipper coils are different.
/Mark

So why not just tie the two wires to the n/o side together and use a regular EOS switch for the n/c wires?

#14 39 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

So why not just tie the two wires to the n/o side together and use a regular EOS switch for the n/c wires?

That's exactly what he intends to do from his post #12.

#15 34 days ago

Rebuilt done with rewired EOS switches. Works like a champ. I used a rebuild kit for a 67 and up Williams EM which features a coil over compression spring to return the flippers rather than the torsion spring wound around the bushing. I wonder if it makes any real difference. The flippers seem to work nicely now.

IMG_1251 (resized).JPG

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