(Topic ID: 151638)

Flipper Gets Increasingly Weak (Coil Hot)

By wxforecaster

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

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#1 8 years ago

I'm stumped. I've rebuilt flippers more times than I can count, and for better or worse, haven't come across this issue.

On my recently acquired Twilight Zone, I rebuilt the flippers with new coil stops, sleeves, and plunger/links because I noticed the left flipper wasn't as strong. Starting up the game, everything is great. Flippers are strong and I can make shots no problem.

However, after just a few minutes (it seems this is taking shorter and shorter time to occur), the left primary flipper gets weaker and weaker until it merely flutters. The coil is hot to the touch, as in, holding your fingers on it would burn your hand. The right flipper (which performs just fine), is warm but nothing noteworthy.

The flipper moves smoothly by hand, with proper play. I checked the EOS switch and even used a business card to remove what very little grime was present. Switch levels show the EOS is getting tripped.

I don't get it.

#2 8 years ago

Flipper buttons optos have to be cleaned.

#3 8 years ago
Quoted from wellarmed:

Flipper buttons optos have to be cleaned.

Could you do me a huge favor and explain the "why" behind this? I assume just a cotton swab w/ alcohol will do the trick?

#4 8 years ago

Disregard. Shows I haven't had many Fliptronics II issues! Just read the pinwiki on it. Interesting.

#5 8 years ago

Does the dirty opto fool it into having the switch "always on"?

#6 8 years ago

No, but on/off on/off very fast.

#7 8 years ago

Mine was doing this on judge dredd, turns out it was a broken flipper bushing! Weird!

#8 8 years ago

Intermittent PDB transistor failure IF you have tested EVERYTHING else first.
Is the coil wrapper charred?
Have you tested the coil diode?
Have you looked closely a the solder leads?
Heat damage failure?
Cold solder joints?
Crystalization damage?
Flipped bushing cracked or broken (easy to miss)?
If so, the coil may already be damaged and requires replacement.
Remember flipper could see a "two stage" function.
High power to flip, low power to hold.
The coil is most likely getting hot on the hold stage.

Fliptronic boards are another leading cause based on game age. Test the board related to the coil function.

What exactly has been electronically tested?

You have already checked most mechanical parts.

#9 8 years ago

From the tech pages:
Flipper coil gets really hot after playing the game for a while. This is often a dirty flipper optic on the flipper board next to the flipper buttons. It could also be a bad LM339 chip at U4 and/or U6 on the Fliptronics board (or U25/U26 on a WPC-95 CPU board). An easy way to see if it's the LM339 chip or the optics is to swap the two flipper optic boards, and see if the problem changes to the other flipper. A dirty flipper switch "U" optic can essentially cause the flipper button to automatically turn on and off quickly (even when the player is not pressing the button), making the flipper coil warm.

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Intermittent PDB transistor failure IF you have tested EVERYTHING else first.
Is the coil wrapper charred?

No.

Have you tested the coil diode?

Yes. Resistance is perfect.

Have you looked closely a the solder leads?

Yes. Solid.

Heat damage failure?

No.

Cold solder joints?

No.

Crystalization damage?

No.

Flipped bushing cracked or broken (easy to miss)?

No. Checked this during rebuild. No horizontal play. Broken flipper bushing would cause poor flipper performance initially at startup as well.

If so, the coil may already be damaged and requires replacement.

We're good.

Remember flipper could see a "two stage" function.
High power to flip, low power to hold.
The coil is most likely getting hot on the hold stage.

This was my initial suspicion with the EOS switch, that it wasn't getting tripped during cradling. So last night during my tests I fired the flippers like a 3 year old with no cradling. Same problem.

Fliptronic boards are another leading cause based on game age. Test the board related to the coil function.
What exactly has been electronically tested?

Nothing other than a cursory look at the Ft. board to ensure no obvious damage. People waste tons of time and money shot gunning parts that ultimately did not need to be replaced. That's the premise behind my post here. For whatever reason, my WPC fliptronics games never had this occur, so I never even noticed that section in the pinrepair guildes. I'm going to clean the optos first and hopefully that works. If not, we'll swap boards and see if it's the LM339.

You have already checked most mechanical parts.

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

Nothing other than a cursory look at the Ft. board to ensure no obvious damage. People waste tons of time and money shot gunning parts that ultimately did not need to be replaced. That's the premise behind my post here. For whatever reason, my WPC fliptronics games never had this occur, so I never even noticed that section in the pinrepair guildes. I'm going to clean the optos first and hopefully that works. If not, we'll swap boards and see if it's the LM339.

Inspect the flipper boards for solder cracking.
It happens with vibrations and can cause coil heat up similar to the optos.
Swap the flipper opto boards first, Double Flipper Opto Assembly (A-15878), after cleaning again.
Then test Fliptronic II board (A-15472).
You are missing a easy test step before heading to the main board.
Test for around 3-5 minutes and continue to feel the coil.
Begin from a cold start (no play for several hours), you should be able to note the difference between normal operation.
It is unlikely this is a MPU board issue.
It is either the opto board or the Fliptronics.

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Swap the flipper opto boards first

I had a similar problem on my TZ only it took a while before the flipper started getting weak. Swapped the opto boards and the problem followed the board. Replaced the opto on the board and everything was okay.

#13 8 years ago

Played the heck out of it and so far the Q-tip + cleaning of the optos appears to have done the trick. Will continue to monitor and if the issue returns, at least there are additional board related steps to check.

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