(Topic ID: 341133)

Flipper Football Goal Opto replacement , ideas needet

By TomDK

11 months ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Bnkmiller
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    #1 11 months ago

    Every owner of a Capcom Flipper Football knows the problem with the opto boards.
    After a longer time the optoboards become hot and "missfires". In praxis: The pin counts goals even no ball went to the goal behind the the droptargets.
    This happens to all (!!) Flipper Football. You can resolder the optos or swap them, the failure will come back.

    Solution:
    In the past GreatLakeModular created and sold an alternate set of opto reciever / sender boards with some more spacers.
    This boards are discontinoued and, as far as I know, GreatLake is out of business.

    cffgbs2a (resized).jpgcffgbs2a (resized).jpg

    My idea:
    Matt from M6M creations has experiences with reed contacts instead of switches and optos.
    Maybe this is the way to go for the Flipper Football goals ??!!

    My questin: In Flipper Football goal line are 8 optos. Are all this 8 optos needet or will 1 opto , or in my idea magnet, will be enough ?? At least we will walk in error messages that the opto is inactive for XX games. But it should work.
    Secons idea ... use 8 small magnets.

    Any ideas ??

    #2 11 months ago
    Quoted from TomDK:

    Every owner of a Capcom Flipper Football knows the problem with the opto boards.
    After a longer time the optoboards become hot and "missfires". In praxis: The pin counts goals even no ball went to the goal behind the the droptargets.
    This happens to all (!!) Flipper Football. You can resolder the optos or swap them, the failure will come back.
    Solution:
    In the past GreatLakeModular created and sold an alternate set of opto reciever / sender boards with some more spacers.
    This boards are discontinoued and, as far as I know, GreatLake is out of business.
    [quoted image]
    My idea:
    Matt from M6M creations has experiences with reed contacts instead of switches and optos.
    Maybe this is the way to go for the Flipper Football goals ??!!
    My questin: In Flipper Football goal line are 8 optos. Are all this 8 optos needet or will 1 opto , or in my idea magnet, will be enough ?? At least we will walk in error messages that the opto is inactive for XX games. But it should work.
    Secons idea ... use 8 small magnets.
    Any ideas ??

    I suppose the resistors are the components that get overheated, just like on WPC through boards.
    My guess using resistors that are larger and with a larger rated wattage perhaps will run cooler and eliminate the problem?
    Resistors are very cheap, so this would be inexpensive to test.

    #3 11 months ago

    I imagine 6 of the optos could be bridged closed all of the time and use 2 magnet sensors for the other ones. ?

    #4 11 months ago

    Now this is something I would LOVE to see fixed. It’s a huge pain!!

    #5 11 months ago

    Well.....I have never had this issue on FF though now that you mention it, I am probably doomed to have it.

    But, as noted above, if heat is the issue then use larger components. Or put a little fan to blow air over it. Or a little, tiny air conditioning unit.

    #6 11 months ago

    I found this reply from 2 years ago...thoughts?

    Quoted from marcand:

    I came across this old post as I am now a FF owner and had lots of phantom goals. What I did to solve the problem was to unplug the bank of optos by the goal.
    After I lifted the playfield, there is a red connector on the left and after unplugging it, the opto in the subway was still working so the game plays great. There is a slight delay when you get the ball past the "goalie" and you will get beaten by the halftime/final buzzer in some instances. Regardless, this did the trick and I think it'll work for you as long as your opto in the subway is working fine.

    We aren't certain to the nature of this board - is it to detect fallen balls into the goal trough or is this for the 5 drop targets....if so - 8 opto's, 5 drops....some math isn't adding up...

    The subway opto mentioned above - where is it - right after the drops on the subway or much further down the run? We were thinking you could place an MRS right at the start of the subway that would tie into the opto board and serve as a trigger for a goal?

    If the GLM boards were a fix - an improvement - there is a bloke Davi in Hungary making similar boards for Data East pins that likely could remake these boards....

    #7 11 months ago

    I seem to remember that disconnecting the opto board game will work but will only score when the subway switch is passed by with ball.

    #8 11 months ago

    I tried yesterday and unplugged the opto in the subway.
    Game became more crazy ! That is no solution.

    The other test would be to disable the optos in the goal, as mentioned by pinballplusMN , but this will be no solution. This would only make sense if this single opto comes closer to the goal.

    A airconditioner, blower, fans ... no solution for me.

    I have also the option to design a new pcb but this makes no sense to make just 2 or 3 sets. PCBs must be ordered at least 10 sets.
    Therefor I had the odea with the reed magnets.

    I just have a optp board as spare which I can scan for measurements. Will see if I have this week the time to remove the reciever pcb for Sonic

    The pcb´s are also available for hell lot of money, but it makes no sense to replace due they all will have problems. Too bad that GLM is out of business.

    2 weeks later
    #9 10 months ago

    I checked my parts and found at least a housing and a sender pcb.

    For a first look it seems helpfull, but best would be if some one from the USA could send you a muster. Shipping would be a killer from Europs. maybe you have an idea for a magnet solution.

    IMG_0170 (resized).jpgIMG_0170 (resized).jpgIMG_0171 (resized).jpgIMG_0171 (resized).jpgIMG_0172 (resized).jpgIMG_0172 (resized).jpgIMG_0173 (resized).jpgIMG_0173 (resized).jpgIMG_0174 (resized).jpgIMG_0174 (resized).jpg
    #10 10 months ago
    Quoted from TomDK:

    I checked my parts and found at least a housing and a sender pcb.
    For a first look it seems helpfull, but best would be if some one from the USA could send you a muster. Shipping would be a killer from Europs. maybe you have an idea for a magnet solution.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Can you confirm if thats magnetic at all? It may be possible to attach 3 MRS's back to back to back where the ball would end up in that trough - all wired in parallel....

    Matt

    #11 10 months ago

    Hi Matt

    I spoke with a friend, he will create some modified boards for me like the GLM boards.
    I tried to contact them GLM via email but no answer within weeks. So they might be out of business. Normally I do not copy other peoples idea and buy what they did for support reasons. In this case i will copy.

    For me the magnet version is out for the following point:

    The opto assemblie is magnetic. It might confuse the magnets.
    The opto board has 8 switches. A solution with 3 switches will confuse the matrix and report errors . NOT that big problem.

    On a friends machine we just disconnected the opto boards until a solution is found, it plays very well. There is a delay of under 1 second until the switch in the tube under the playfield reports the switch (goal) to the cpu. It is playable with a little delay.

    Thank you for all your work and ideas. Feel free to work on this, maybe someone prefers the magnet solution. I will go with modified optos.

    Cheers
    Tom

    I will order 10 from the repro-repro boards. If someone is intrested, let me know but we are still on the design.

    #12 10 months ago
    Quoted from TomDK:

    Hi Matt
    I spoke with a friend, he will create some modified boards for me like the GLM boards.
    I tried to contact them GLM via email but no answer within weeks. So they might be out of business. Normally I do not copy other peoples idea and buy what they did for support reasons. In this case i will copy.
    For me the magnet version is out for the following point:
    The opto assemblie is magnetic. It might confuse the magnets.
    The opto board has 8 switches. A solution with 3 switches will confuse the matrix and report errors . NOT that big problem.
    On a friends machine we just disconnected the opto boards until a solution is found, it plays very well. There is a delay of under 1 second until the switch in the tube under the playfield reports the switch (goal) to the cpu. It is playable with a little delay.
    Thank you for all your work and ideas. Feel free to work on this, maybe someone prefers the magnet solution. I will go with modified optos.
    Cheers
    Tom
    I will order 10 from the repro-repro boards. If someone is intrested, let me know but we are still on the design.

    Right, this is what we felt all along - if that weldment is magnetic (and it is) - MRS' are out...further - you could replace the subway tube switch with an MRS - allowing you to move it as close to the opto boards as possible and minimize that delay ever further...that may be a cheaper alternative for some over replacement opto boards - where they simply bypass them (like you did) and replace the subway switch with an MRS moved as close as possible to the weldment...

    Matt

    5 months later
    #13 5 months ago

    I am a flipper football owner with the same problems and know minimal about these machines…this is the first one I have ever bought…I would like to fix it but can’t find any help…read your posts and wondering if you were ever able to design the new opto boards because I am interested…ty!

    #14 5 months ago
    Quoted from Sonic:

    Right, this is what we felt all along

    Very good idea, but to be hones shipping this magnets from the USA to me is a killer.
    The nice thing ob your products is that they fit perfect as a replacement

    Quoted from Bnkmiller:

    I would like to fix it but can’t find any help…read your posts and wondering if you were ever able to design the new opto boards because I am interested…ty!

    Nothing new right now, I am a little lazy.
    What we do is making new sets like the ones from "Great Lakes". This is simpe borrowing theit idea but they do not react on mails. Seems out of business.

    Do what we all do:
    Remove the glass, remove the plug from the upper pcb. So the optos are death. Now the pin recognizse a goal trough the opto in the tube under the playfield. So tehere is a >1 second delay but you will not have false goals anymore. With this tweak the pin is playable

    There are several possible problems: Soldering ... if the pins become warm the soldering becomes "nervous" and counts goals.
    The plugs ... sometimes they become a little loose. Droptargets, sometimes a drioptarget is hit and goes back so that the optos react.

    #15 5 months ago

    Thank you so much for your help really appreciate it!!

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