I have used both, prefer the FF.
The powered subwoofer is also an option, I have added RCA drops to my games and move it around.

Both great. Service and support category goes to FF. Mike at Flipper Fidelity is a great guy to work with. Very professional, Stern distributor and easy to contact. I bought my Stern ACDC Pro from him. Powered sub is ok but feels distant and some how off.

I am also a big FF fan. Mike is by far one of the best to work with in our hobby. I have 3 powered sub woofers and have to agree they sound distant ( I have the polk and sony). I will use the powered sub woofers on my B list pins ( so as not to put the money directly into them) , but the A list get FF.

+1

I have two FF in my NGG and IJ and love them. I also have played a STTNG with a FF system and it totally rocks! I also agree that Mike is a great guy to deal with. I will buy more in the future.

Pinball pro was first. I have both and both products are virtually the same. You can't go wrong with either. Shipping time is equivalent on both also. Pinball pro seems a few bucks cheaper but not significant. Service is equal on both. You can't go wrong either way.

I don't thing ff makes a product for system 11 machines

Flipper Fidelity would be my vote.... The customer service is outstanding.... Mike runs a solid business with excellent customer support....

Old thread but just thought I'd add some thoughts. Just installed a full kit into my Tron - end result is something I'm not happy with. The kit I got from them long ago was for Twilight Zone, and you could adjust the power of the sub separately, with main volume adjusting the backbox. These kits are the other way around, but the P Pro backbox speakers in a new Stern are really far too quiet unless you jack the machine volume into the high 30s and beyond, and at that point the sub is just booming far too loud.

Annoyed as it took a while to install, probably going to pull it all out, or at least the backbox part because the new Stern sound boards just can't drive those speakers anywhere near as well as they can drive the sub.

Disappointed.

Your analysis doesn't make sense at all. When you install the stern kit, it comes with a vol control. The bigger speakers require more power to drive them. Therefore, you turn the system volume up. I usually go to around 48. Then you turn the vol control knob that you just installed down until the speakers are the right volume you want. This results in booming bass but normal volume speakers.

The vol knob will lower the vol of tgd backbox speakers. If this is not what's happening then you have it installed wrong.

What part of what I described is different for you?

Also the Tz kit would be totally different and incompatible. The speaker in a WMS system is crossed over way higher than the stern subs. In addition the older WMS sound systems had only one audio amp. Therefore the vol knob is on the sub. Wpc dcs, wpc 95, Sega, data east, and stern all have two amps. One for back box and one for cabinet (sub).

something I'm not happy with

I purchase a pinball pro full kit for STAR WARS DATA EAST . I ended up not using the back nbox speakers as the 18 year old factory sounded better The sub is fair to partly cloudy. Go with external powered sub-woofer and add it along with all the original speakers. This way powerd sub will not sound distant.It is the only way to go I think.

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Nothing - that's exactly how it's working, but if I turn up the machine volume control to get decent sound from the new backbox kit, the sub is knocking the walls down - which isn't what I wanted, or how the last kit sounded. I know WPC is different, I was just using the TZ setup as an example in terms of sound. I want to be able to turn the sub down, not turn the backbox speakers down which are already too quiet in comparison by a long, long way. The best tune in the game (Derezzed) sounds pretty bad now, it sounds thumping if you're familiar with it, but in reality there's not a huge amount at the lowest end. End result in gameplay is the booming from everything else totally drowns it out.

I'll probably put the stock speakers back in next week sometime, this just doesn't sound good.

All the other upgrades that went on today were nice. Flipper Fidelity LED backboard kit, I turned the animation to very slow colour fading, but even when switched to non animated it looks significantly better than the flourescent tube did. Shaker motor is pretty cool, and the I ripped out the EU model Pinled display and put a proper Babcock DMD in (along with the rest of the wiring and hardware you need). The animations look much better.

RobKnapp, did you add the ext powered sub along with the sub in the cabinet or did you disconnect the internal to hook up the ext ??

Add the external powered sub to the bottom cabinet speaker with 16 gauge speaker wire. Use aligator clips or solder in. Then plug wire to the exteral subs speaker (IN) ports. You loose a lot of midrange sound if you bypass the cabinet bottom speaker.

So what about the FF sub, is it adjustable?

It seems the PP sub isnt the one to get based on comments in this thread.

On my TRON, I bypassed the stock bottom woofer. I was debating on picking up a FF bottom woofer to run along with my 10" ext sub... Or should I just keep the stock woofer in the cabinet ??

Ok so you're saying that when you have the backbox knob turned to "max" that the sub volume is still too loud? Over here, I have the knob turned to less than half closer to "min" and the sub shakes like crazy. It is hard to know where the sub leaves off and the shaker takes over. TZ doesn't have a lot of bass, so you won't get much the same performance out of that. But it sounds to me like you were actually not happy with that much bass?

If you want to reduce the sub volume further, you could put a 8 or 16 ohm resistor on the + tab of the speaker and solder your speaker wire to that. That would lower the volume of your sub. An 8 ohm would cut the vol in half, and a 16 would cut it in 4. I believe the sub in the cabinet is 8 ohm. If it's actually 4 ohm, then substutute my suggestions where 8=4 and 16=8 for resistors. You can get these resistors locally at radio shack or such for a few cents.

I personally would save your money.And use the original STERN speaker.I think the mid-range sound it produces will complement the external sub woofer excellent. I do not KNOW how to add an exteral sub to a FF sub that also may have its own amp? If you feel you must do it.Then PM Black-Rose. He tinkered with his AC/DC. But I think you are better off just doing what I have done and I Know it is easy and sounds great once you dail in the external subs volume & frequency!!

Cool, thanks for the info RobKnapp

I like Flipper Sound (yes flipper sound not fidelity)

On a Stern game you have to work the two volumes. The door operates the sub volume basically, and the backbox one operates the backbox speakers. You should be able to set the backbox at max and the door at min, then slowly increase the door volume until you get good sound from the backbox...then adjust accordingly. At least that's how I remember doing it on spiderman/im.

FF in Stern

Pinball Pro in Bally/ Williams.

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Yup, I've been having my issues with FF backbox speakers as well. Just can't seem to get a crisp and clear sound out of my Tron Le.

I had FF in my FGY and was disappointed in the sound (loss of high end and way too much mid). Agree that Mike runs a very customer-oriented business.

I put the full PP kit in my TRON LE and couldn't be more pleased. I replaced the sub and kept the factory backbox speakers and played a few games to get an idea of the sound difference. Then I replaced the backbox speakers and was impressed with the improved sound.

It all comes down to the crossover frequency and each game has a different mix for it's sound package. If you're lucky you can read some reviews and benefit from others results.

If anybody is having a problem with a FF system in a tron call Mike, the owner of flipper Fidelity. He will make everything right. I was having problems and Mike sent me anther sub since the old one had a problem. This system should sound really really good in a tron. You should be able to find a happy point with the lows and highs.

So I solved my problem, I took the Pinball Pro kit wiring out, removed the wires from the volume control and soldered them together so the backbox speakers are in parallel straight off the amp. Then I cut the sub speaker wires close to the speaker, and put the volume control in there instead, again wired as a potential divider as it was on the backbox. End result - I can turn the sub down, which is what I'd wanted in the first place - sounds much better and the neighbours won't hate me as much. Easily adjusted by reaching inside the coin door as I screwed the control to the cab floor next to the sub.

Just like their kits used to be, when they were better

Wow. Turning subs down instead of up, pulling out awesome red led Dmd and putting in old plasmas. Next you're going to say you remove all LEDs and put in incandescents or you toss the powder coated LE legs and rails for black.

I have a pretty good result with Flipper Fidelity in my TRON Pro. You *do* realize that the music and effects on that title are sampled and there is noticeable distortion in them, right?