I've installed both in my games, and find them to be about equal.

Michael Pupo is your guy to deal with .

Jim

No. To be honest, I didn't even know these existed until you mentioned it. This must be a new product since I last ordered from them. I have the regular Pinball Pro sub in my TZ, and it gives more than enough bass for me. In fact, I had to turn the volume way down because it was overkill.

+1!
Nothing but goodness there!

Haven't used or heard the FF kit but I have the PBP in my Getaway and it sounds real nice. Not sure which model it is as it came with the pin. My buddy also has the PBP kit in his TOM and that sounds good too.

Having installed both, I think that from a pure sound standpoint the pinball pro is better. That's just my opinion though. I have pinball pro on TSPP, IM, and SM, and had the FF kit on a BDK. The bass on the pinball pro just seems tighter.

I've only had experience with pinball pro. My buddy has them in his STTNG and the system sounds great.

The FF kit is really nice SC!
The cool thing is the separate volume control almost acts as an EQ, so you can really control the warm tones of the game a bit more. Also the "positive high" and "positive low" on the subwoofer is a nice touch too, that is- if you want to tweak the lows so that you don't shake the house when playing it, it is VERY useful.
Installation is a breeze on the FF kits as well.
I think they finally put up a video too on how to install...

Yep!

#!
All I know is the sound is just AMAZING!
It brings a whole new level to enjoying my games.
Thanks Mike if you are reading this!!!

I would skip both and just build one off parts express. The setup in my rbion is excellent and while I did not do it, after pricing it out total cost would be less than 75.

dung said:
I would skip both and just build one off parts express. The setup in my rbion is excellent and while I did not do it, after pricing it out total cost would be less than 75.

Dung, do you have more details on how to do it this way?

I installed Pinball pro in my TZ (later sold) and TAF and my original LOTR. Sold my LOTR for a LOTR LE and installed a FF sub and backbox spks as well in my SM... My LOTR FF sub blew in about 50 games, started crackling.. Michael sent me a new one, no problem..That one also blew the same way within 30 games?????? I then bought a pro to replace it and will never look back. I like the Pro much better. The SM FF sub seems fine though. I like a lot of bass and I feel the pro is a better choice. I already ordered a Pro for my Transformers LE just waiting to get the game, whenever that's gonna be. I highly recommend putting a sub in these games as it seems to really bring them to life. IMO..But, all in all, either one will suffice, don't however understand how two FF subs blew by a pinball amp??

I have a Pinball Pro system in my Tommy, and it has a separate volume control.

I have installed both in STTNG's
FF kit is better IMO...better control of sound.

how loud do you guys usually have your machines to make the aftermarket speakers sound better?? or is it just clearer sound?

how loud do you guys usually have your machines to make the aftermarket speakers sound better??

This loud...

boom.jpeg

good shot from the original Dawn of the Dead there Nimble.

As a DJ in my sordid past, I could probably install just about any speaker in one of these things, any that would fit in the cabinet. But currently, unless we've been drinking heavily, I don't turn up the speaker past 5 on mine. I considered surround pin sound, but No Fear really doesn't scream 'needs surround' or needs to go to 11 to me.

Crispness on the other hand, is a totally different thing. I love clear sound.

A buddy of mine just installed an FF kit in his MB recently. It sounds fantastic!

Hey "Pinbob", I checked out parts express and wow do they have all the products ever needed. Can anyone give us a basic rundown of parts needed to build your own kit, item numbers, etc.

Here's a great How-To DIY guide:

http://www.dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_replacement.html

Perhaps someone who's ordered recently will be good enough to add some current links here for the sub, backbox, volume control, & pre-DCS crossover.

I keep my Addams Family at 11 on my Pinball Pro's.
Not a Spinal Tap reference, the actual 11.
Any higher and my glass will really rattle.

Flipper Fidelity all the way

Just ordered a set of PP high output's for my T3. Should be getting them any day. One thing i can say immediately is the owner of the company, I think his name is Craig, is one of the nicest guys i have talked to and very helpful with any questions i had. I have been in the audio installation business both home and car for years and realize the importance of having good components with the proper crossovers in place. But that is just half the battle. Having a good class amplifier is just has important, not so much for volume but clarity. And getting those rattles and vibrations under control is just has important. I suggest the "sound tape" PP offers to shut that glass noise up dead. Noise like that kills any effort or money you invest. I will be sure to do a full review when i get them installed.

I am not sure why you made this point. Neither FF or PP replace or upgrade the amplifier. Either way you are limited by the amplifier on the sound board in the game. In addition, no matter what, you limited by the quality of the sound recorded for the game, which means mono on most games.

I have used both and like FF a bit better. The pinball pro tends to produce too much bass. At that point if you love bass then hook up an external subwoofer or buy the FF kit.

Was speaking in general. No PP or FF do not offer an amp just speakers and yes all pin's are mono, i think...Actually i don't think there has ever been a pin with stereo, not sure but no i'm saying now you're putting bigger speakers on the same amp with cross-overs and volume controls etc...having a small external amp would not only increase sound quality and volume but would relieve the on board amp instead of straining it. I have been looking for a amp with high level inputs that is 110v ac but i haven't really found much. Have to check Radio Shack. I'll have to see what the PP's sound like when i get them in. The other thing i am trying to find is an external sub with high-inputs and an amplified high outputs for the PP's. I know i have seen these before. I am using an Earthquake sub with high-in's and it rocks the house lol. But it doesn't have high out-puts for the cabinet speakers.

Service from Flipper Fidelity is awesome and his speakers rock!
The only choice for me.
Dave O

Thanks for the kind words, i truly appreciate it. The anti rattle tape you refer to is available from Pinball Pro as well http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-anti-rattle-tape

Greg

After having experienced both PP & FF ...I definitely prefer Pinball Pro. They will continue getting my business now and future.

-Mauro

Just installed the anti rattle tape on my AC/DC, Addams Family and Twilight Zone a few weeks ago.
This stuff really works.
Now I just have to find what is shaking in my Addams Family backbox.

I admit, I like bass, I like when you hit sandman the game shakes with bass, however, our kits have more adjustability than ever. We can adjust the bass to your liking. If you like alot or just a little.... Very easy to do, just sometimes it helps to give me a call and walk through it! Always happy to help

Yes

When you have too much Bass in the machine, everything tends to shake and rattle. So you then need anti rattle tape but then the rest of the machine can tend to shake. For me on a game like Tron I'd rather have the low Bass coming from a powered subwoofer as then I do not need to worry about anti rattle tape etc..,

I did a quick review of PP speakers in my System 9 Sorcerer a few months ago.
I love them.
Definitely worth it.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-9-owners-do-this

No its not a big deal. Hook up a powered external sub to Tron. It is unreal. I am biased towards Flipper Fidelity as I think the kits are right on. I have a Pinball Pro in my TZ that I do love. In BSD I had a pinball pro kit and hated it. I have never hated a FF kit on any game. So if you want a lot of bass that will not shake the machine then hook up a $100.00 powered subwoofer.

Otherwise I'm saying both kits are good, but I'm biased towards Flipper Fidelity overall.

It is nice to see a discussion like this that hasn't blown up into a heated battle. I admit to being a little biased toward PP since I have been best friends with Greg for close to 20 years. Having seen first hand the attention to detail that Greg puts into the assembly and testing process of creating these kits, I can honestly say you won't go wrong with PP speakers in your game.

I am a huge audio nut and have been since I got my first boombox! I instantly wanted to find a way to improve the sound in it. Listening to Men At Work or Twisted Sister on a DD/Metal cassette in the back of the School Bus!!! Talk about an opportunity to improve sound quality!

Knowing what goes into doing a pinball sound upgrade, I'm impressed at how relatively cheap of a mod these kits are. Consider what people spend for LED upgrades or custom toppers. In my mind, PP Sound Upgrades are the biggest bang for your pinball upgrade/mod buck.

Dane

I have one set of FF in my AC/DC and happy with it, and very happy with my pinball pros in SS,TZ,TAF.

Really you cannot go wrong here and both have been excellent in terms of service. Sort of pointless unless you are just a nutjob audiophile with superman ears.

Why thank you!

Sorry I got tunnel vision

I bet you have tube amps and listen to vinyl too

I have one in my family and I have superman ears but I have a tough time saying this one sounds better between the two.

I agree. There will be no <> $200 Audiophile Sound coming from a ?watt pinball amplifier. BUT these systems are a huge improvement over the stock, cheapest thing the manufacturer could find, setups. AND better than anything someone could create from off the shelf components because PP (cant speak for FF, don't know for sure) drivers and crossover networks are manufactured specifically to match up with the abilities of the stock sound board/amp in the game! A PP system will get the absolute most out of your pinball sound board.

So are you calling me a nutjob or Superman?

Yeah, the tape's easy to install and I much prefer my pins to not have external junk like subs attached to them. I tend to move them around too much to deal with the hassle of disconnecting peripherals.

Give me an internal solution anytime.

Also, something the guys with external subs are missing out on. A good bass system INSIDE the pin is a poor man's shaker motor! Love that tactile feedback coming up through the lockdown bar while playing.

I still have mine (McIntosh) and love it, vinyl too. But as far as my ears go can't tell anymore. The down fall of getting old.

FF FTW

I recently bought a Pinball Pro kit for my DE Star Wars. Some notes on my experience:

Installation was relatively simple, although I thought the instructions could have been clearer — they didn't seem to match the exact kit that I ordered, but I figured it out.

The speakers sound great.. amazing amount of low-end. I'm impressed with the hardware. Kudos to you if you can leave these speakers at their default levels! They literally shake the whole house.

Alas.. it was too much bass for me personally. I live in an old multi-floor brownstone and don't want my neighbors complaining to the landlord. Plus, I felt that the bass was overpowering to the rest of the game audio.

You get a volume adjuster in the kit that installs in the back box, but it's purpose is to reduce the volume of the backbox speakers only. The machine's standard volume control adjusts both the subwoofer and the back box speakers. Unfortunately, with this setup there is no way to reduce the bass level but keep the back box high. Pinball Pro offered to send me an inline resistor, but I wanted something with adjustability.

I ended up installing a 2nd L-Pad (50W 8ohm) next to the sub-woofer so I can now adjust the back box and subwoofer levels independently. Works great! I had to dial the bass level dial down to about 20% to get it where I like it.

Would be great to see Pinball Pro offer a sub-woofer L-Pad as an option when ordering. Or better yet, incorporate it into the base kit.

One downside of ordering a high-fidelity speaker kit for an older pinball game.. it makes it obvious how low-quality the audio data really is. You're not going to hear clearer treble because it's just not there in the system. You'll definitely get improved bass though.

pinball-pro-subwoofer-desw.jpg