(Topic ID: 294901)

Flipper Fair Restoration

By undrdog

2 years ago


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  • 180 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by jrpinball
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 180 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 2 years ago
Quoted from Mopar:

You'll maybe also want to take off the lower Card Tray
so you can more easily close and open the trough switches for inspecting..

Never would have thought of that. Great tip!

#152 2 years ago

score any one point bumper or toggle the 1 pt relay, and the relay stays stuck on.
score any ten point bumper or toggle the 10 pt relay, and the relay stays stuck on.

Seems like the common point must be the alt relay, but it all looks good.

The #1 rollover relay will not stay engaged. It clicks on and right back off.

Making 2-4 and holding in 1 does not activate the VR coil.

#153 2 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:

The #1 rollover relay will not stay engaged. It clicks on and right back off.

Because the same switch in Relay V (Sequence Relay) is in #3 Rollover Relay's circuitry
to keep itself energized, it can't be that. I'd have to think it's a switch in #1 (W) Relay
not truly making when energized (or that set of switches isn't getting current). It's usually
the inside set of switches that holds itself energized..

Quoted from undrdog:

score any one point bumper or toggle the 1 pt relay, and the relay stays stuck on.
score any ten point bumper or toggle the 10 pt relay, and the relay stays stuck on.

This is commonly the Score Reel's EOS (End of Stroke) switch. When the Score Reel's coil plunger is all the
way in, it should open a set of contacts which breaks the circuit to it's Score Relay. In this case the 1 & 10
Score (Point) Relay. If that set of contacts does not open when the Score Reel's coil is energized, the Score Relay
will remain energized. Also, it's always a good idea to carefully check contacts solder tabs..

#154 2 years ago

Making progress!

Worked on a switch on #1 rollover and one on V. Clearing 1-4 now triggers v / vr. 1st trough switch resets the rollovers to 2 & 4 consistently.

So, where is the machine deciding to do 2 & 4 rather than 1 & 3?

In other news... the 1 pt & 10 pt relays are still sticking. Sometimes the pt relay will ring the bell the first time, but it sticks on the next time. The score reel EOS opens reliably when advanced manually. Any suggestions?

And, of course, we have a new issue. The game resets to 6 balls.

#155 2 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:

So, where is the machine deciding to do 2 & 4 rather than 1 & 3?

The position of the Alternative Relay determines that. The 2nd set of trough switches resets 1-3.

Quoted from undrdog:

the 1 pt & 10 pt relays are still sticking. Sometimes the pt relay will ring the bell the first time, but it sticks on the next time. The score reel EOS opens reliably when advanced manually.

You say the 1 & 10 Score Relays remain energize, but you didn't mentioned that their Score Reels
stay stuck on. If the Score Relays stay locked on, their corresponding score reels should do the same.
If the score reels aren't energizing when their Score Relays do, then the score reels EOS switch will
remain closed keeping the Score Relays energized..

#156 2 years ago

The two score relays are fixed. Cleaned and closed the gap some on the switch that fires the score reels. Such a minute adjustment- sure hope they stay fixed.

The alt relay isn't getting power, not even with 1-4 made. When I started messing with it, I couldn't get the machine off resetting to 2 & 4. By the time I was done, I couldn't get the machine off resetting to 1 & 3. Unless you tell me its something else, I'm going to reflow the solder to the alt relay coil.

The machine resets to ball 6. Goes down to Game Over and steps up to six. Does that mean that the rivet contacts at ball 5 position are not sending signal back to the reset bank so it is moving on to 6?

#157 2 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:The alt relay isn't getting power, not even with 1-4 made.

I believe the Alternative Relay gets energized/not energized depending on the
position the #1s Unit is on, so it's possible that multiple times in a row the same
two sets of numbers (1 & 3 or 2 & 4) could remain lit. If only one of the sets of
numbers are lit after 1-4 are made and the ball drains, I'd call it good for now..

Quoted from undrdog:

The machine resets to ball 6. Does that mean that the rivet contacts at ball 5 position are not sending signal back to the reset bank so it is moving on to 6?

Okay. This is how this part of the machine works. After the Ball Count Unit zeros out (totally resets), the D Relay energizes
transferring the circuit to the Ball Count's Step Up Coil. When the Ball Count steps up 4 times (so on ball 4) 2 of the Snowshoe
Wipers are on each of it's Wiper Board rivets closing that part of the circuit to the Control Bank's Restet Coil.
The only thing left to happen so the Bank's Coil energizes and resets is the Step Up Coil's EOS switch needs to make.
So the next time the Step Up Coil energizes, the EOS switch makes, the Bank resets, and as the Step Up coil returns
to its home (out) position, it lands on Ball 5. If the 2 Snowshoe wipers aren't making good contact on its Wiper Board rivets
when it's in the 4th step up, the Bank won't reset, and it'll keep stepping up until those Snowshoes are making good
connection on its rivets. So your Snowshoes aren't making good connection when it's in the 4th step up. It's mostly because
the rivets (in the 4th step up) are worn. I found if the Snowshoes outside is filed so the center becomes the high point (but yet
kept a bit rounded), that can help make it get the connection it needs, but if the rivets are noticeably worn, I take the
wiper board off so the rivets are upright, flow solder in the worn area, then form by filing. Then by putting a film of Super Lube
on the Wiper Board, those rivets should hold up for quite some time..
So yes. You were right. The rivet contacts aren't sending the signal, but I thought I'd explain it in long term in case it may be
useful another time..

#158 2 years ago

Thanks very much.

#159 2 years ago

That rivet had a very deep groove, fit the wiper exactly of course. Soldered & filed that one, and a few others, including one that a previous owner had soldered already. Wiped w/ SuperLube. All fixed.

1 &3 and 2 & 4 are resetting perfectly. 1 & 3 on odd numbers on the units reel.

Adjusted a few minor issues. Tuned up the rollunder gate and the pops. Just noticed there is no Tilt light.

I may uncup the rollover inserts or just leave them. They aren't that bad. I've already brought them up to level. I'm calling it DONE. Might adjust the coin door to accept tokens some day. I've got plenty. Right now it starts w/ the coin return button.

Now I can get on to Drop A Card.

Many thanks again, Mopar!

#160 2 years ago

Post 159 is what we've been waiting to hear. Good deal and time well spent..
Flipper Fair's one of the top notch classic..

#161 2 years ago

Well, hell. I'm back to post 125. It was all working beautifully. Took out the playfield to level the cupped inserts. Put it back in.

Loosened up the #1 rollover switch some because the ball wasn't going through. Now I get nothing - making 1-4 does nothing. No AAB. The trough switches do nothing.

A guy named Steve told me once that Gottliebs were built like tanks and were the best pinballs ever made. Maybe he meant a different Gottlieb than the one that made Flipper Fair.

Oh, I'll get it figured out. Sure is frustrating, though. I was all done. Even had thoughts of repainting that beautiful bright yellow cabinet. Now I think a coat of gasoline might look fine.

#162 2 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Now I think a coat of gasoline might look fine.

Hold on a second! Not at $3.50 a gallon. I'd say a few other truthful things, but unbelievably it may
get deleted before you get a chance to read it.
"Crazy I tell you, Crazy"..
Anyways, recently after cleaning the outside prongs of jones plugs, I still wasn't getting connection.
After some testing, I found it wasn't a broken wire, so with a fairly thin file, I cleaned the inside of the prongs
going sideways. So only 2 prongs at a time on the inside where they make contact with the females, and
that did the trick. Not sure if that's causing your issue, but it sounds like you did unplug the playfield..

#163 2 years ago

I will certainly check the plugs, particularly the ones from the pf to the cab board.

But it seems like a repeat of a problem I had on Wms Hi-Hand. I'd adjust some switches and it would be fixed for a day. It’s like the switches want to move back to their old positions after a few hours. Memory metal?

#164 2 years ago

It was a switch on the #1 rollover relay. Regardless of whether the alt relay is on 1 & 3 or 2 & 4, the lane resetting goes thru the #1 RO relay.

Now, one of the switches that must close for it to work sends power to the ball unit. Making the lanes gets a sticking coil on the ball unit for a few seconds, then the ball advances. The problem isn't the ball unit itself because it advances fine from the AAB target and subtracts fine on reset and when the ball drains.

Move the switch on #1 further apart and none of the lane resetting or AAB happens. Move it too close and its stuck on, of course. Cleaned it, same behavior.

Either something is sticking or something is not immediately breaking the circuit to #1 RO coil. Would that be on the same relay or where ?

#165 2 years ago

Which brings up a problem I've been having regardless of the machine. I adjust a switch and its good for a few hours or a day. Then it has to be adjusted again. What's the secret trick to getting it to stay put?

#166 2 years ago

The circuit breaks from one rollover relay from each set. One from trough switch #!. The other from
trough switch #2.
I had metal fatigue before, but not often on pinball switches. They're made for bending..
I had a Bow & Arrow in a Local Tavern. It continuously (seemingly) needed contact adjustment.
After much time cleaning and getting played, it finally cleared up. Although all evidence evaporated
away, I'm thinking someone sprayed the hell out of it with some type of contact cleaner
and a (not so noticeable) film remained on the contacts. I'm not suggesting that's what's going
on with your machine, but I'm not thinking it's from weakness in the contacts, although I kinda felt
that way with that Bow & Arrow thinking maybe somehow all the switches got very hot.
At the time, I didn't know what to think. Nothing was noticeable.
Of course each contact has a mate. Perhaps if you put a little tension on the larger contact that's
in the bricket's (if that's what it's called) groove away from it's mate so the switch absolutely has
no play in that groove, and then adjust it's mating contact accordingly, that may help.
I myself never gave that advice, but I have no other clue how the switches could come un-adjusted
on their own. Hopefully it's just a couple switches for you. On that Bow & Arrow, the problem was
all over the place..

#167 2 years ago

Once all four rollovers are made, the step up coil on the ball unit buzzes and sounds like it is sticking, usually for a couple of seconds.

The unit steps up fine on reset and when the aab target is hit.

It steps down fine on reset and when a ball drains.

Any hints?

#168 2 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Which brings up a problem I've been having regardless of the machine. I adjust a switch and its good for a few hours or a day. Then it has to be adjusted again. What's the secret trick to getting it to stay put?

Just a thought and something I do…when adjusting a switch I first make sure the switch stack screws are tight adjusting the screw closest to the blades first. If you do this to any switches you have adjusted and the screws are slightly loose, you most likely will have to adjust the switch again.

1 year later
#169 1 year ago

Rod Serling thought that if there is a hell, it is a personal hell, not fire & brimstone.

If there is a hell, mine will have a #3 rollover relay that keeps needing adjustment. And an alt relay that won’t stop buzzing no matter how many times it’s fixed.

But, no worries — I just fixed it!

#170 1 year ago

Repro backglass doesn’t have the tilt area.

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#171 1 year ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Repro backglass doesn’t have the tilt area.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That's a bummer - but clever fix!

#172 1 year ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Repro backglass doesn’t have the tilt area.

I noticed the last badge of Flipper Fair's repro glasses not only lacks the Tilt,
but also the ladies skin has very minimum fleshtone.
I had 3 Flipper Fairs (still have 2) and without thinking the one I let go had
the backglass from the first batch which has the Tilt and fleshtone.
Both I still have has the same glass flaws as yours..

#173 1 year ago

The first one I got from Shay arrived shattered. We'll never know if it was correct. The one I have now was the replacement. I got it within the past two years. Then I read posts from like seven years ago about the bad tilt area. So, it seems like Shay is / was still working off a batch of incorrect glass from long ago. Seems like the bad ones would have been trashed and new ones made.

#174 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure all of the reproduction backglasses for this title lack the "tilt". I had one many years ago, and noticed the error. That glass is no longer in my possession.

3 weeks later
#175 11 months ago

Any word on if someone builds replacement rainbows for the juggling ball?

#176 11 months ago
Quoted from AndyGarber:

Any word on if someone builds replacement rainbows for the juggling ball?

I did. Once. A friend had a vacuum mold gizmo we used to stretch a rainbow-printed piece of PETG (I think) over a custom mold I made. It’s perfect.

Sadly, I only made one as a test… and Mr. Vacuum moved away before I could make more.

I still have the mold. Spoke with Jody (Ramp-O-Matic) at Allentown a year or two ago about making some more… but we didn’t move forward with it because I didn’t have a list of folks needing one.

I’ll count you as one.

Know anyone who might want to take on this project?

#177 11 months ago

No, at the moment my rainbow suffices but it's definitely something i'll be looking to replace. I just wasn't even positive where to start since googling "Plastic mold fabrication" lead to an absolute rabbit hole of manufacturing I just did not know existed.

#178 11 months ago

My brother scored a very nice "Flipper Fair" at the Allentown Pinfest flea market. It didn't have a backglass, but we found a reasonably decent one at the show as well. Unfortunately, when we installed it in the head out in the parking lot, we heard a "crack" sound as my brother tilted the light box insert in. Sure enough, the glass suffered a large crack from top to bottom! So, he could definitely use a backglass.
But, he set it up at home, and says it plays fine as found. Also, he says it's super clean and pristine inside. Low plays on it as evidenced by the original flipper links which have zero play in them. I think he got the EM deal of the show, with the possible exception of the Gottlieb "Show Boat" which was sold for $425!

#179 11 months ago

It’s a fun game, and the clown motif I feel wards people off so you can buy it for a steal. Source: 2022-23 I bought mine for $125 ish

#180 11 months ago
Quoted from AndyGarber:

It’s a fun game, and the clown motif I feel wards people off so you can buy it for a steal. Source: 2022-23 I bought mine for $125 ish

He's a happy, colorful, and benevolent looking clown. I don't get this coulrophobia thing.

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