(Topic ID: 247368)

Flipper coil question El dorado | Lucky Strike | Gold Strike


By Dono

7 months ago



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  • 15 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by D-Gottlieb
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#1 7 months ago

Could anyone who owns one of these titles let me know what the stock flipper coil is as stated on the schematics?

Thanks,

Don O

#2 7 months ago

A-5141

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#3 7 months ago

Awesome GorillaBiscuits, much appreciated.

#4 7 months ago

Assuming same coil type used for upper and lower flippers.

#5 7 months ago

That is the coil used in the EMs.

#6 7 months ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Assuming same coil type used for upper and lower flippers.

Yes, same coil for both upper and lower flippers.

#7 7 months ago

Ok so I’m puzzled... my Target Alpha has the same flipper coil, and the flippers on my game are way snappier than every El Dorado I’ve ever played... I’m not on high rap either. What gives? Is it just that I’ve played a bunch of poorly tuned El Dorados?

I was telling JR at one of the shows that I thought TA had different coils, oops!

#8 7 months ago
Quoted from Dono:

Ok so I’m puzzled... my Target Alpha has the same flipper coil, and the flippers on my game are way snappier than every El Dorado I’ve ever played... I’m not on high rap either. What gives? Is it just that I’ve played a bunch of poorly tuned El Dorados?
I was telling JR at one of the shows that I thought TA had different coils, oops!

I'm convinced different playfields can have different personalities. My first keeper Atlantis played great but didn't look the best. It was very good but not great. Along came keeper Atlantis number 2. It looks much better but did not play as well. I swapped playfields and the good playing followed the playfield from Atlantis 1.

I stopped worrying about it. I'm on keeper Atlantis 3 which is in amazing cosmetic condition. And it plays well. If it needs to be improved I'l fine tune a few things.

To share a relevant story with you, Don, the Slick Chick I got from you several years ago turned out great. Except for the pop bumpers. Flippers play strong since the rebuild. Slingshots are good. To get the pops balanced with the rest of the game I ended up removing 2.5 to 3 full layers of wrap on the coil windings. They now play as well as the rest of the game.

Keep in mind, the ED you played could very well have many more miles on it than the TA.

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from Dono:

Ok so I’m puzzled... my Target Alpha has the same flipper coil, and the flippers on my game are way snappier than every El Dorado I’ve ever played... I’m not on high rap either. What gives? Is it just that I’ve played a bunch of poorly tuned El Dorados?
I was telling JR at one of the shows that I thought TA had different coils, oops!

"Target Alpha" has the newer style upgraded flipper assemblies, at least on the lower flippers as I recall. This design more efficiently delivers the power of the coil to the ball through the flippers partly due to it's rigid design, dual bushings and other improvements.

#10 7 months ago

To add to the OP's question: on El Dorado, how strong should the flippers be? I haven't played many GTB EM's of the era so my reference points are nil, and my El Dorado resurrection is my first GTB EM tech experience.

I rebuilt its lower flippers with a PBR kit, and put the best original parts (links, etc) on the uppers. Coils are all original.

What gets me confused about the game is sometimes from a full cradled flip, the shot will just "barely" hit the upper targets... like a tap that may or may not get the target to fall. This is of course frustrating, but then maybe that's *supposed* to be how it is for difficulty's sake... if you flip the ball from a rolling feed down the inlane the power is there thanks to momentum... but of course your timing better be perfect to get "X" target, and even THEN sometimes it seems like the power is *only just enough* and of course there are still some targets you won't be able to hit that way owing to basic geometry. The flippers feel snappy and don't bounce or wobble, it's just the overall power seems low. I don't know the pitch degrees offhand, but I don't think the game is too steep.

(As for the upper flippers, what a lie those are: so hard to get a shot lined up, and the upper right one seems always in the way of shots from the lower left... but I guess they're better than nothing ha ha! )

As much as I want to like the game, and concede it could probably benefit from additional new parts... it seems so on the line performance wise that I'm hesitant to spend more money on it if it's playing the way it's supposed to, or wouldn't improve that much.

#11 7 months ago

I've experienced the same issue with flipper strength on Gold Strike. In my case it turned out to be slightly lower line voltage that wouldn't give the flippers enough power (they had been completely rebuild). I think there was also an issue with the game having an incorrect front/back leg size. My Target Alpha didn't have a weak flipper problem, and I'm guessing it had to do with the different style of flipper mech, even though the same coil was used. The older style mechs aren't as rigid.

There are also yellow and orange dot 5141 coils that PBR sells that will increase the power on the flippers a bit. I've found they helped on occasion, especially on the older style games.

#12 7 months ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

sometimes from a full cradled flip, the shot will just "barely" hit the upper targets...

In general terms, I think a flip from a trap will always be weaker than a flip from the rest position. When you flip from a trap, not only will the flipper get less travel or power from the high power coil before the EOS switch opens and cuts power, but you also have to overcome the momentum of the flipper assembly moving in the wrong direction. Starting from the rest position the flipper gets the full benefit of the high power coil before the EOS switch opens.

Either way though I don't think you should have trouble reliably knocking down a target from a trap, even at the top of the playfield. Targets at the edge might get hit a little harder than those in the middle but the flippers ought to be able to send the ball with enough speed to do it. Is there any extra slop or friction in your flipper assemblies? Are the return springs too tight? Does the EOS open too early?

/Mark

#13 7 months ago

I rebuilt the flippers on my El Dorado with kits from PBR. To get a little bit more power in the lower ones, I swapped out the coils with the PBR orange dots. I can now easily hit any of the upper targets without smashing the heck out of them (either shooting on the fly or cradling the ball). I did find that I had to play around with the flipper return spring mounting locations to get the flippers dialed in. Also, I did not high tap the game.

#14 7 months ago

I've not encountered any issues with flipper strength on the last two "Gold Strike" machines I've owned, shopped and have since sold.
Also recently sold a "Target Alpha" which had very low plays on it.
The later design as used on "TA", is a definite improvement in overall flipper feel and quickness however. The older design was fine for the 2" flippers, but I always felt the 3" flippers lacked quickness, not power, until the later design was used.

#15 7 months ago

Waxing the playfield really helps the speed.

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